Please help identify this morph

Can anyone help me identify this little girl? She's in pretty rough shape, previous owner was a clueless fool with an iq of 5 or 6... has been using a heat rock all winter. Poor thing has several burn scars, one which is recent. SUPPOSEDLY she ate last week.....

This snake has a crazy pattern, and extreme yellow coloration. Compared to my other bp's, it seems a different species almost. The snake is molting now, so coloration is dimmed, and lighting in the room is horrible. These pix are the best i can do until tomorrow.

Thank you for your contributions!

Ben

http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...cture079-1.jpg
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...Picture083.jpg

What color are the eyes? I wanna say a pastel, but the head seems too dark. work on getting her better and post pics after shed :), there are more qualified users than myself who can answer, if she seems hungry offer her a meal

can't really tell for the sheen from the soon to be shed skin, but it looks yellow and brown...

How rude of me! :welcome: to BP.net you will find tons of useful info & help here. What is your set-up like for her?

Here is a link to caresheet for Ball Pythons:
http://ball-pythons.net/modules/Sect...warticle&id=59

I see that she is in a screen enclosure, she will need her humidity to be over 50% to shed properly, so you may want to get her a better enclosure.

Here is a link to a tub set up:

http://ball-pythons.net/modules/Sect...warticle&id=40

Thank you for the links and welcome!

We have several enclosures, and our animals tend to play musical chairs from time to time.... o.0

but are well taken care of.

She's headed for a life in a tub, I am gifting this snake to someone else, who has a male spider and is interested in her for a possible breeder.

I hope she isn't in a enclosure space in the musical chairs, because she should be quarentined from all your animals, without one of yours going into a enclsoure she has just been in. You don't want to risk yours picking up something from her.
It's hard to tell from the pics. Once she sheds, post clear pictures. She could be a normal, a pastel... just hard to say. Check her eye color too.
Good for you for rescueing her too. Welcome to BP.net.

She is in the game. Understand though, our cages are cleaned inbetween switches. If all goes well, she'll have a permanent new home this week, with her own personal tub for life. If she sheds for me, i'll post some new pictures. I'll take some outdoors in natural lighting today as well.

Current temps are 82f ambient, 60% rh. She seems happy :).

A very quick way to rule out whether it's a pastel is to check the belly. Shed or not, you can see if it's clear. Pastels always have a beautiful clear white belly. Most normals have some sort of speckling or dark patterns along the sides and/or center of the belly. Based on the limited pictures, I'd say that's a normal. Might be a "high gold", which is just a description of a normal color variant. There's a tremendous amount of variety in colors and patterns even among "normal" ball pythons. She's very pretty!

Welcome aboard! :handshake

Thanks! I'll check on that when i take her outside for pictures. :)

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Originally Posted by llovelace

... if she seems hungry offer her a meal

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She was trolling hard, checking out mice across the room. I offered a live rat, which proved to be a mistake. She headed over to it, then tried to eat without a strike and coil. The rat surprised her, and she hid, rat was removed.

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

She was trolling hard, checking out mice across the room. I offered a live rat, which proved to be a mistake. She headed over to it, then tried to eat without a strike and coil. The rat surprised her, and she hid, rat was removed.

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You didn't say how long you've had this snake (or if you did, I missed it)...but a bit of advice, if I may. While some folks have success in feeding a new snake right away, the best way to insure your odds of a successfully feeding snake is to give it a week or two to settle into its new home before offering a meal.

It also sounds like she's already had more than one enclosure in your home and has at least one more change ahead of her. Each change to a new enclosure needs its own new settling in period. This should be a time for the snake to completely rest with as little disturbance as possible. Frequent handling sessions are a very common cause for putting a bp off her feed. Especially if she hasn't had a chance to settle into a home yet.

These guys live life at a different pace than we do and it can take days and days for them to learn something that we can see in an instant. We look at an empty enclosure and know it's perfectly safe for her and nothing can harm her. But SHE doesn't know that. She has to explore every single nook and corner...every limb and every cave....to assure herself that there are no other animals around she must be wary of. And then she has to check again. And again. It can take awhile for them to become confident that they don't have to share their home with anything else and nothing in their home will harm them.

AFTER they've had a chance to settle in and feel secure...offer a meal. And preferably a meal like they've been used to eating in the past. If she actually tried to EAT a live rat without striking and wrapping it first, then I would guess she's had nothing but pre-killed or f/t her whole life. If at all possible, please try to stick with that regime. This fright from this rat may put her off eating at all for awhile.

More likely (although I'm just guessing, as I wasn't there to see it) she wasn't trying to eat the rat, and wasn't interested in eating at all. She was just sniffing at the new thing in her enclosure...and it startled her. Which leads back to that need to settle in and not fear she has other critters running around in some hidden corner of her cage.

LONG STORY SHORT: Give her at least a week (10-14 days would probably be better) to settle into her new home with as little handling and intrusion as possible. Then quietly offer her a small pre-killed or f/t rodent.

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Originally Posted by JLC

You didn't say how long you've had this snake (or if you did, I missed it)...but a bit of advice, if I may. While some folks have success in feeding a new snake right away, the best way to insure your odds of a successfully feeding snake is to give it a week or two to settle into its new home before offering a meal.

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Brand new snake, bought to get her away from the blasted heat rock!!! :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

It also sounds like she's already had more than one enclosure in your home and has at least one more change ahead of her. Each change to a new enclosure needs its own new settling in period. This should be a time for the snake to completely rest with as little disturbance as possible. Frequent handling sessions are a very common cause for putting a bp off her feed. Especially if she hasn't had a chance to settle into a home yet.

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She went from a cardboard box (dumb guy) to a temp enclosure (12x8x6h). She was kept in the temp box for around 24 hours, as i did some cage reconfiguring and cleaning. from there, she was placed in a clean 20g long, and live rat was introduced after a 4-6 hour wait. She sensed it, found it, then opened her mouth and started trying to down the rat, which woke up jumping. Certainly this stressed her out, i will not be trying to feed her again for at least seven days. I am going to assume she's been fed prekilled, so we will try that next time.

I do not handle snakes often, only to move them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

These guys live life at a different pace than we do and it can take days and days for them to learn something that we can see in an instant. We look at an empty enclosure and know it's perfectly safe for her and nothing can harm her. But SHE doesn't know that. She has to explore every single nook and corner...every limb and every cave....to assure herself that there are no other animals around she must be wary of. And then she has to check again. And again. It can take awhile for them to become confident that they don't have to share their home with anything else and nothing in their home will harm them.

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I understand, and know what you're talking about. As a general rule, our snakes are loners, and don't get much more interaction than a "hi" and "bye". I've always offered new snakes a meal right off, which results in either an immediate kill and eat, or we remove the feeder and wait.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

AFTER they've had a chance to settle in and feel secure...offer a meal. And preferably a meal like they've been used to eating in the past. If she actually tried to EAT a live rat without striking and wrapping it first, then I would guess she's had nothing but pre-killed or f/t her whole life. If at all possible, please try to stick with that regime. This fright from this rat may put her off eating at all for awhile.

More likely (although I'm just guessing, as I wasn't there to see it) she wasn't trying to eat the rat, and wasn't interested in eating at all. She was just sniffing at the new thing in her enclosure...and it startled her. Which leads back to that need to settle in and not fear she has other critters running around in some hidden corner of her cage.

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She tried to eat it; nosed it for a moment, then opened the jaws and started working. Rat woke up and started jumping, scaring her...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

LONG STORY SHORT: Give her at least a week (10-14 days would probably be better) to settle into her new home with as little handling and intrusion as possible. Then quietly offer her a small pre-killed or f/t rodent.

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Will do; next meal will be a fresh killed small rat.

Thanks for the post!!! :)

If she doesn't have a completely clear and clean white belly she is what I suspect she is.

She looks to have the coloration of a malnutrition struck ball python, rather than a pastel.
She looks to be too skinny to me in my opinion, so make sure to get her in a nice enclosure setup and attempt to feed her later.

Feed her f/t. It seems like thats what she was expecting it to be, so get a small rat about the same thickness as the thickest point on her body, and thaw it out for her in about a week or so.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

If she doesn't have a completely clear and clean white belly she is what I suspect she is.

She looks to have the coloration of a malnutrition struck ball python, rather than a pastel.
She looks to be too skinny to me in my opinion, so make sure to get her in a nice enclosure setup and attempt to feed her later.

Feed her f/t. It seems like thats what she was expecting it to be, so get a small rat about the same thickness as the thickest point on her body, and thaw it out for her in about a week or so.

Good luck!

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thanks for the reply!

This is a young snake, roughly two feet. she has good girth, and is not skinny by any means. i think she would have eaten had the rat been prekilled... live and learn :rolleyes:. I will be taking new pictures today, outdoors. hopefully that will help shed some clear light on the whole morph/color deal :)

I was not aware that color could be influenced; i thought it was all genetic.Can you provide me with any more information on this topic? Any info is appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

thanks for the reply!

This is a young snake, roughly two feet. she has good girth, and is not skinny by any means. i think she would have eaten had the rat been prekilled... live and learn :rolleyes:. I will be taking new pictures today, outdoors. hopefully that will help shed some clear light on the whole morph/color deal :)

I was not aware that color could be influenced; i thought it was all genetic.Can you provide me with any more information on this topic? Any info is appreciated.

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She has the possibility of being a pastel, her pattern shows this, but to me, it doesn't have a super 'pastel' look and usually pastels have a different color pattern. Where they have almost a washed out yellow brown on top and it fades into a brighter yellow along the sides.
If she is 2 years old, she definitely seems too small in my opinion.

There was an interesting thread on here somewhere about a rescue that was beautifully brighter in color and it went back to normal after it was fed for a while. I tried to find it, but was unable.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

She has the possibility of being a pastel, her pattern shows this, but to me, it doesn't have a super 'pastel' look and usually pastels have a different color pattern. Where they have almost a washed out yellow brown on top and it fades into a brighter yellow along the sides.
If she is 2 years old, she definitely seems too small in my opinion.

There was an interesting thread on here somewhere about a rescue that was beautifully brighter in color and it went back to normal after it was fed for a while. I tried to find it, but was unable.

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not two years, two feet :p.

this snake has some bad burns on the side from a heat rock. the burn scars are blackened, but this can be seen up close as scar tissue, and not genetic color. this ball is a lot yellower than my high yellow normals, which i will include in the new pictures for comparison. i realize my pictures and info are not great, making identification more difficult. hopefully we'll get that sorted in an hour or so.

thank you for trying to find the link!

why is that tank vertical in the pics. ball pythons are not a tree dwelling species! and you shouldnt be swapping caging for any of your animals.

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Originally Posted by nixer

why is that tank vertical in the pics. ball pythons are not a tree dwelling species! and you shouldnt be swapping caging for any of your animals.

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i own a pet store, and the animals i have will change from week to week. tanks are emptied, animals replace those that are bought. While it is true that bp's are not an arboreal species, they will make use of branches, if they are available (as seen in the pictures). this cage is aprox 16''x2', 2' high. the tank is not standing irregularly, but is a vertical tank, use mostly for arboreals.

again, all tanks are sterilized before new animals are placed. We do buy animals from not-so-great caregivers, but do well with our stock. I should probably mention also that i have approximately 20 years experience with serpents, hots and nots. some of what we do may seem controversial, but our animals are well cared for.

thank you for your concern :)

Just throwing my opinion out there...'cause I can... :P ....

Given the pictures so far...I don't think the snake looks skinny at all...and certainly not malnurished. And while I never claim to be an expert, I will say this is the first I've heard of malnurishment causing an unusually light color. Not saying it couldn't happen, but just that I've never heard it before. Still...even if that happens, it seems a pretty big leap to make from the pictures offered.

Ben...I'm looking forward to more pictures to show off her color and overall look more truly. :) Then maybe she can get some rest. ;) :P

Thanks Judy! Apparently it is not going to be warming up today, so I've just put a heater in the sun room to get it warm enough for a beauty shoot. I'll bring out a normal and a high yellow normal for comparison as well.

See you soon!

It looks like she's in a mesh enclosure. Mesh/screen enclosures do not hold humidity or heat very well. I'd suggest switching her to a tub or tank, ASAP.

As far as her "morph", I'd say she's an interesting normal that has dinker potential.

Correct, mesh enclosure; the rh of the room is 52 right now...

All of our animals are housed in our "Snake Room", which is set up for the requirements for most. 75-85f with basking areas, all enclosures are tried and true, and have been in use for over two and a half years.

I really do appreciate the constructive criticism, but i'm not having health issues with the animals. I simply would like to know if this is a pastel, as it is so different from the normals i have, and have had (even the high yellows). Pictures are coming soon, so please be patient. I do not want to move the animals until the sun room is warm.

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

Correct, mesh enclosure; the rh of the room is 52 right now...

All of our animals are housed in our "Snake Room", which is set up for the requirements for most. 75-85f with basking areas, all enclosures are tried and true, and have been in use for over two and a half years.

I really do appreciate the constructive criticism, but i'm not having health issues with the animals. I simply would like to know if this is a pastel, as it is so different from the normals i have, and have had (even the high yellows). Pictures are coming soon, so please be patient. I do not want to move the animals until the sun room is warm.

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She is not a Pastel. She is a normal and would be considered a normal until you prove her out (Genetically). She's a very pretty girl though. :)

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Originally Posted by Michelle.C

She is not a Pastel. She is a normal and would be considered a normal until you prove her out (Genetically). She's a very pretty girl though. :)

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The genetic consideration is a sound idea. however, i would like you to take a look at a few pages of pictures i came across. I noticed several that do not look pastel, but many with the same type of crazy pattern. Can you link me to some info on patterns and localities?

http://images.search.yahoo.com/searc...moz2-ytff-msgr

When it comes to balls you usually see either very reduced, very busy, or somewhere in between when it comes to patterns. Normals have a high amount of variabitlity to begin with. Unless you're working with a genetic pattern trait such as a spider, or clown there is a lot of variabitlity that can take place. There is no locality that is more patterned than another. There are some theories that snakes with many hooks in there pattern could be carrying something recessive but it is very much a theory with no concrete proof.

I would be really curious to see what that snake looks like after a shed.

Well, I would like to assure you guys that Mr.Biscy is taking good care of his herps. I personally know him, and hes a great keeper. :gj: Also, I'll be the one recieving the snake, so eventually I can post up some macro shots.

here are a few pictures; it's overcast, so still not perfect.

Thanks for the replies!

http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...Picture084.jpg
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...Picture085.jpg
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...Picture087.jpg
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...Picture086.jpg
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...cture090-1.jpg

After viewing the pictures and the snake in the light, it's obvious the snake has eaten recently. There's the answer to that question!

Looks like a busy patterned normal, definitely not a pastel, but very busy pattern indeed.

My personal opinion with the new pics is that she is a unusual normal. Possibly what we refer to as a "dinker". Those are nasty burn scars, and I'm glad she'll be in a better place.

Most of the people responding may not have read the whole thread, and are responding to the initial posting, which is why it may seem that people are "continueing" to comment on the mesh cage, and such.

She's pretty, but the darkened areas in the undamaged light color pattern make me fairly certain it is not a pastel. It is however unusual, and definitely a curiousity. However.. I'd want to see pics after a good shed, to see if some of that cleans up with less stress and fresh skin.

I beg to differ, it looks like a pastel in shed.

Looks like a Jungle-y Normal

Not trying to discourage you but it really doesn't have any of the markers for a pastel. Every pastel I have ever seen has had a very faded head, or some fading going on in the crown of the head. The above snake has a very dark head.

Here's a photo for your comparison pastel, next to normal.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0_1984-2-1.jpg

That's about how this one looks in person. Sorry for my lame photography skills. After BD receives her, and she molts, I'm sure you will be able to see what i see here.

Wonderful photo!

It will be interesting to see her after her shed, but with the current pictures posted, she does not look like a pastel to me.

Doh!

You forgot to get the belly shot and the eye close up - the two pictures hat would have answered the question best of all. :rolleyes:

Those scars tell a sad story of the animals life though. :(


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Doh!

You forgot to get the belly shot and the eye close up - the two pictures hat would have answered the question best of all. :rolleyes:

Those scars tell a sad story of the animals life though. :(


dr del

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I sure did! I'll try to get a picture after she eats (she's about to take my hand off...).

She just shed, here is a top view picture. I'll take pictures of the belly and eyes a couple of days after she eats.

Thanks again!

http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...cture097-1.jpg

she almost looks like a phantom goblin. Not sure thoe, good luck figuring it out!!!

To me, she looks like a busy normal with burns who needs some groceries and a few sheds.

I have rescued a few large females who looked axanthic or off-color at first, but after a few meals, they rebound back and take on that nice glowy-brown.

Even though she may not look like she is suffering from malnutrition, she easily could be. Poor quality meals, infrequent small meals, or parasites could easily be the cause of her coloring.

See how she looks after plenty of sheds and a few months of weekly, appropriately-sized feedings. I'm sure she will have browned some, or maybe she will even brighten up. You never know..

But she's definitely not a pastel. They have a definite look to them and she doesn't have it.

Kudos to you sir for saving this animal. :gj:

As far as the question at hand, I also would like to see a close up of the eyes and a belly shot before I give an opinion.