Everyone is beautiful, there are no losers.

I post pictures here like everyone else.

I'm positive that some of my snakes aren't as nice as other peoples, while some really are super nice; basically, it varies widely.

Where am I going with this? We'll, I am honest with myself.

Sometimes I get sick of looking at pictures here because everything is sugar coated. Everyones everything is awesome.

Every time someone posts a pic of a herp all i hear is "congrats, super looking, or, awesome, or whatever. Could it be that everyone's everything is top notch?

No.

Its either 1) every snake is beautiful or 2) not every snake is beautiful; we just blow smoke up each others butts and pretend.

I guess this sorta makes sense though... if we look at this through the eyes of a parent; every parent thinks their kids are beautiful, when the reality is some kids are just plain hurtin. We can either be Politically correct or Honest.

I guess it takes a single person to be honest about this; I have no kids and no wife to nag me about this post. I can say the truth and there are no consequence for me.

I have a few ball pythons that are considered "poor expressions" of the type, and at least I know the difference.

This kind of "everyone is beautiful, there are no losers attitude" also reminds me of some horse-crap I heard about when kids fail in school now; its no longer called "failing", but some sugar-coated crap called "deferred success".

I'm still pretty young (i guess), but I come from a time where kids could still fail (and were allowed to fail), still get still get their asses kicked in school and through it all still take it all as an opportunity to rise above it and kick ass in our own rights.

BrandonsBalls

hmm...
maybe were just on a forum where everyone likes snakes.
i personally really think every ball python i see is dope, even if it is, as some put a poor example of the morph. i have a 75 dollar pastel who i assume some would say it is not a good example, but i still think hes the coolest looking thing on the planet..

so i guess im going with number 1

and deferred success....are you serious....

1) Every snake is Beautiful :), and if you knew me you'd know I don't sugar coat anything I say what I mean & mean what I say.

yeah, I heard that somewhere, forgot where, but who knows.

To me it comes down to my passion for animals. I think every animal is beautiful in it's own respect, because it is my passion. A Browned out Pastel, is still an animal, even though someone came along and said the browning out was not desirable. I find all species, morphs, normals, phases, etc. beautiful in it's own respect.

Because you don't think an animal is beautiful, don't say everyone is sugar coating. Honestly, I see some people posting "Beautiful Snake, yadda yadda" on certain threads, but everyone doesn't post on the same thread. Those people probably did have a difference of opinion and thought the snake was beautiful, while some people did not.

What generally makes me answer a thread with the "sugar coated gooeyness" is; the animal is unusual, the person is asking a care question, the person is asking a morph question, etc. While I find every single Snake, Tarantula, Lizard, Dog, Cat, Horse, etc. beautiful, I often don't have the time to be the 60th poster saying, "Wow! Beautiful snake!"

To add one more thought on that subject, who cares if people are sugar coating it? When people are first getting into this hobby, it is partly other people in this hobby that gives them the confidence to move forward and be pulled deeper into this addiction. If every single post contained, "Wow...now why did you pick out that snake? You know it's ugly, right? You have really sucky taste in animals..", I'd think there would be a few less people in this hobby, and a lot less people on this forum. This forum is popular because most people are nice and helpful. Including yourself! (oh noes!) :)

As far as children and failing; well, I guess if your passion is children, they will all be perfect. With a bit of support and compliments, a child gains confidence and a loser can be turned into a successful individual. When they grow into stupid, mean, or cruel adults, that might be different.

The comparison between children and snake morphs is a little of a stretch to me, seeing as you are looking at the personality of a child (which can be changed) and the physical features of the snake (which can not be changed).

I really like this thread, it's something out of the ordinary. :)

I haven't sugar coated anything, if I think its just people being polite. If I don't have anything nice to say, i wont post anything at all. So, in turn, all you will see from me is "awesome, beatiful snake" etc etc.

I've got a good many morphs but I still think normals are beautiful animals. So if someone posts a pic of a Pastel that's more brown than yellow, you're not going to hear me tell them, "thats an ugly Pastel" or "your animal is not up to par" or such.

And before someone says anything, I believe in selective breeding, and I think you should strive to use the best example of a morph you can find for your breeding projects, but not everyone intends to breed their animals.

As long as the animal appears to be in good health, well fed, no stuck sheds, in other words, if it looks well cared for, it's a beautiful Ball Python IMO. I've never seen a healthy BP that I thought was ugly. Sure some are nicer than others, but it's all good. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanova

I haven't sugar coated anything, if I think its just people being polite. If I don't have anything nice to say, i wont post anything at all. So, in turn, all you will see from me is "awesome, beatiful snake" etc etc.

---

Yeah, for the most part I don't post if I think an animal is ugly or not kick .... I would only post if I thought highly of it. Noone wants their feelings hurt if they just spent $$ on an animal and someone goes ewwww that thing is hideous.

Brandon, you can speak at my wedding anytime. I too am a man of truth and honesty. I totally agree with everything you've written and that's why I have never posted a picture of my male Spider. Its not that I'm embarrassed of his color and pattern, but rather I hate fake compliments and to tell you the truth, I don't think my Spider even really cares what people think. I don't need a compliment to feel good about myself, well... maybe sometimes, but the point is.... We all know the difference between a 200gr. $200 Spider and a 200gr. $500 Spider. I know he is not the Brad Pitt of Spiders, but hey....he's got....personality.

NOW, before anyone attempts to rip on me, let me just say: BY NO MEANS ARE THESE COMMENTS TO DISCOURAGE ANYONE FROM POSTING THEIR PICTURES. I HONESTLY really enjoy seeing all your snakes and hearing your war stories. I just love snakes. I was a broke kid once and just to have the opportunity to care and have a pet was one thing, but to share with others meant the world to me. KEEP POSTING YOUR PICS and even if I don't comment, hey, maybe I was too busy with something else. As long as you're happy, who cares!:pinkele:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrandonsBalls

I'm still pretty young (i guess), but I come from a time where kids could still fail (and were allowed to fail), still get still get their asses kicked in school and through it all still take it all as an opportunity to rise above it and kick ass in our own rights.

BrandonsBalls

---

I guess I'm not still pretty young LOL because I come from a time and place where the word "brutally" didn't always seem to go with the word "honest". This really is a soapbox thing for me, Brandon, so bear with me and please don't take this personally but I really don't get this sort of mindset.

When did being tactful, kind or non-judgemental turn into sugarcoating? When did it become okay to say anything that pops into a person's brain and justify it all by using "just sayin'"? When did we lose our internal filter that says "maybe in this case I should just keep my tongue behind my teeth and my opinion to myself"?

I guess the way I see it, when it comes to photos here, is that, for me anyways, any well kept snake that a person shows us is a gorgeous animal because it's able to live it's life well under that person's care. No one is asking us to stand judgement on whether the animal is the best example. This is not some sort of online snake show, nor are the majority of us qualified to give that kind of expert opinion anyways (no matter what our ego's would like to tell us). It's a different matter if a person is showing a photo and asking for an opinion on the quality of the morph in order to purchase it but even then, it's an opinion - your opinion, my opinion, not something written in stone by our egos. Personally I think it should be expressed as an opinion and done so without the big stick of "brutal honesty" swung so quickly all the time.

As for the non-snake rest of it, I don't think it would kill society to be just a tad less self-serving and immature. Manners are something that have gone out of vogue it seems in this world of "I call it like it is". I for one am very sorry to see them go by the wayside.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

I guess I'm not still pretty young LOL because I come from a time and place where the word "brutally" didn't always seem to go with the word "honest". This really is a soapbox thing for me, Brandon, so bear with me and please don't take this personally but I really don't get this sort of mindset.

When did being tactful, kind or non-judgemental turn into sugarcoating? When did it become okay to say anything that pops into a person's brain and justify it all by using "just sayin'"? When did we lose our internal filter that says "maybe in this case I should just keep my tongue behind my teeth and my opinion to myself"?

I guess the way I see it, when it comes to photos here, is that, for me anyways, any well kept snake that a person shows us is a gorgeous animal because it's able to live it's life well under that person's care. No one is asking us to stand judgement on whether the animal is the best example. This is not some sort of online snake show, nor are the majority of us qualified to give that kind of expert opinion anyways (no matter what our ego's would like to tell us). It's a different matter if a person is showing a photo and asking for an opinion on the quality of the morph in order to purchase it but even then, it's an opinion - your opinion, my opinion, not something written in stone by our egos. Personally I think it should be expressed as an opinion and done so without the big stick of "brutal honesty" swung so quickly all the time.

As for the non-snake rest of it, I don't think it would kill society to be just a tad less self-serving and immature. Manners are something that have gone out of vogue it seems in this world of "I call it like it is". I for one am very sorry to see them go by the wayside.

---

I couldn't have said it better!

I would honestly rather have sugar-coated responses than nothing at all. I hate when I post pictures of my snakes and either no one responds or just a few do.

Now one thing I do hate is when a daily poster posts a picture of one of their snakes and they get tons of responses, but when a newbie post, they only get a few...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

I would honestly rather have sugar-coated responses than nothing at all. I hate when I post pictures of my snakes and either no one responds or just a few do.

Now one thing I do hate is when a daily poster posts a picture of one of their snakes and they get tons of responses, but when a newbie post, they only get a few...

---

I think Eddie that just due to people noticing threads from folks they know faster than a newcomer. It is a good point though that we need to remember that a kind response to a newcomer leaves a good impression of this site. That good impression translates often into us being able to accomplish one of our main goals in helping newcomers become confident, knowledgeable snakekeepers. Thanks for the reminder, Eddie. :)

Brandon, have you ever known me to sugar coat anything? :rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

I think Eddie that just due to people noticing threads from folks they know faster than a newcomer. It is a good point though that we need to remember that a kind response to a newcomer leaves a good impression of this site. That good impression translates often into us being able to accomplish one of our main goals in helping newcomers become confident, knowledgeable snakekeepers. Thanks for the reminder, Eddie. :)

---

You're welcome, and I do see what you mean about noticing post from people that they know quicker than others.

Well..... This came to mind. My grandmother was born in 1908. She saw both World Wars, the great depression, Korean war, Cold war, Vietnam, Iraq... governments fall, death, fear, despair, and an alcoholic husband. After everything she has lived through she would still say to me, " IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANTHING NICE TO SAY, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL." Smart words from a smart woman. :colbert:

Show me a picture of an ugly snake. I've never seen one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mak2266

Well..... This came to mind. My grandmother was born in 1908. She saw both World Wars, the great depression, Korean war, Cold war, Vietnam, Iraq... governments fall, death, fear, despair, and an alcoholic husband. After everything she has lived through she would still say to me, " IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANTHING NICE TO SAY, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL." Smart words from a smart woman. :colbert:

---

I ask myself the words of wisdom your grandmother shared almost everytime I post on a forum. With that said, I can say that I agree in large part with the OP's evaluation. I know for a fact that every Ball Python I have BOUGHT, is an exceptional animal. I know this because I searched high and low, and in most cases, paid for the best example of a trait that I could find. Now, I have produced some animals that are better looking than my founding stock, and obviously some animals that are less than desireable for said trait. In other words, I don't think that every Pastel is "great looking", and I normally don't say it is if it isn't.

Now, I have read all of the posts in this thread, and have to agree with all of the people that think every snake is beautiful. If someone posts a picture of their "ugly" (insert morph here), I will either keep my mouth shut, or comment on the beauty of their snake, animal, Ball python, etc., but won't say that that is a beutiful (said morph here). I think Jo said it best when she said that you can still post, but do so in a tactful manner. I still believe that one should go back and reread their post before hitting the submit button, so they know it is worded correctly, and makes sense.

That's just my take on the subject, and I do still think that every animal is an amazing creature.

ugly/pretty is so subjective... talking about snakes there are some morphs i do not like (visually). But this just me. Anyone else may have different opinion. That's why I never post: "What a ugly picture" or "what a disgusting snake". However when I see good picture or beautiful (for me) snake I make comment. Of course.

Different thing is when beautiful = expensive. That means you cant make beautiful picture just because you have normal BP. You do not get it? let me give you an example... posting pictures of Panda-pied. Pics should be blurry, ugly, common as usual... but still it's $23k snake (as noticed in other post in forum) so it's beautiful. My point is I have that feeling sometimes from some posts...

note:
Another example... I have just one snake at home and it's normal. Sometimes I have feeling from some posts like: oh... one snak only? what a looser... and... and... he has normal!!! looser of losers...)

There's really not much that hasn't been said here that I don't agree with. Jo and Tim hit the nail on the head..

I can tell you that when a person gets a new snake morph or not they are stoked, I am every time I get one in. I have normals that I show off as much as my morphs. So if someone gets an animal that I might not find attractive I might tell them congrats on the first morph or to watch out their addicting.

I'm not however going to be an ass and come down on the quality of their animal because its not what I could have picked up or not the quality of animal I own or produce. Their happy, they like it and that's whats important my opinion don't mean and shouldn't squat. They spent their money on an animal their excited about it, so I'm excited that the hobby has another enthusiastic member. So I congratulate them and encourage them. Being a wet blanket is what runs people out of the hobby.

I can remember when I got my first morphs I remember the encouragement I got from people I look up to in the business and still do. It really was a boost and still is. I like hearing people like looking at my animals it means that I have something to offer. People like to know that their new addition makes them one of the group. We don't need or want people in this hobby that have no qualms with belittling someones animals. You should want to encourage people and let them know that there room at the table for everyone not just those with the best looking animals.

Please people remember. Just because you can say it doesn't mean you should.

That's a negative way to look at things. I hate to invoke Godwin's Law, but I imagine that's the way Mengele viewed the human race. Personally, I think any animal, whether it's the perfect representation of its species or not, can be beautiful (this dog excluded). Especially for snake lovers in general, it's hard to see one that you don't appreciate; I think my normals are prettier than some morphs I've seen, and other morphs don't really strike me as anything special, but they're still pretty snakes.

In the end, I think it boils down to... why should anyone have to defend their viewpoint against yours anyway? No offense intended, brother.

OP, i have a friend who shares your attitude. There are times when i tell or show him something and he tells me it's stupid, ugly, wrong, or whatever. I keep this guy around because he lets me know, without being fake, how he feels. I appreciate that, and i tell him that. He keeps me grounded.

I, on the other hand, am a little more tackful. I respond to things that he tells, shows me with a compliment. I am not intending to be fake. I am not even being fake. I (sensitive chic moment) have the ability to find beauty and niceness in anything. So i like to think that he keeps me around because i am the one who is nice and sometimes he needs that.

Now, we are all different. Two people like you, who can agree on things that irk you, usually cant get along. You need someone or something in your life to show you the softer side. If everyone were brutally honest, we would be in a sad world. While we need to be grounded from time to time, i think it's beautiful to let our emotions fly high every now and then.

We need each other. We are the Yin and Yang. If you get sick of looking at the sweetness below the pic, don't scroll down. Look at the pic and then go about your merry way. It's your choice to scroll down.

And remember, one day you'll need someone to be nice to you. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday. And when you do, we sappy, sugar coated snake lovers are here for you. And we will forget that you said you didn't want to hear us rant about how beautiful an under par snake is. We will love you because we are lovers, and it's what we do.

:love: i love you guys.

I believe wholeheartedly in losing, and I think that people who don't lose are just setting themselves up for a much larger fall in the end - with that said if you were to approach my 3-5 year old child and ostracize them for not performing up to par with whatever task you deemed, I would feed you a sandwich.

Take into account that if someone is posting pictures of their snake that they are proud of them, they feel a connection, (maternal/paternal/etc) and for you to trample on it with a "just keepin it real" mentality would be egregiously rude and conceited. I have observed that many people project how they want to be treated into how they treat others, not taking the time to consider whom to, and why they are in the conversation. I don't know if the cause is internet anonymity, lack of parents, blah blah social constructs forever and ever, but it all goes back to respect or lack thereof.

Sorry for the rambling but it took over an hour to compose that with people in and out of my office :( This wasn't a criticism directed at anyone in particular, just a pov on how society (particularly on the internet) appears to be devolving.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mak2266

Well..... This came to mind. My grandmother was born in 1908. She saw both World Wars, the great depression, Korean war, Cold war, Vietnam, Iraq... governments fall, death, fear, despair, and an alcoholic husband. After everything she has lived through she would still say to me, " IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANTHING NICE TO SAY, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL." Smart words from a smart woman. :colbert:

---

I salute your grandmother, she says it how it needs to be said. :salute:

Yep, my favorite quote... Do not speak unless you can improve the silence.

I don't like pieds, albinos, ghosts, caramels. So, somebody posts pictures of those, I normally don't comment or, if it's striking for an albino - like Mike Cavanaugh's or Matt's - I will say something like, "I'm not into albinos, but for an albino, that's a pretty snake".

I love normals and spiders. Insane, right? But, Malpaso said it, I don't see the snake with the $ behind it. I just see the snake.

I have this friend who always wants to "up" somebody. I'm not sure of the word to call it. But, let's say, I get this 52" plasma TV which I was saving for for ages and I thought it was the greatest buy and I KNOW he likes it too. But, he always comes back with, "You got that for $5,000??? You could have gotten that cheaper at ___" or something like that. Always finds something negative to say. I don't tell him anymore about things I got. I don't want to hear the negative. I wouldn't want to hear him gush falsely about the TV if he really didn't like it either. So, I guess, I still expect honesty but with gentle delivery. If that made any sense. This applies to the kids as well. Nobody wants to hear, "you are a failure!". But, sometimes, proper encouragement is achieved when you say, "that was great effort! I'm sure you can even do better the next time.".

Well the child reference was more to draw a parallel between being a parent of a human child and the people posting pictures of snakes they own.

Staying on topic - there needs to be a modicum of respect throughout for everyone, not just people, but animals, etc etc. The Earth could hiccup and we'd all be gone in an instant, if you don't have respect for something in life, you will never see it for what it's worth. In a time of cell phones, instant internet gratifications and anonymity it is hard to keep sight of these things, I am as guilty as the next guy - but it all starts with knowing, and consciously stopping yourself and taking that extra step.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malpaso

ugly/pretty is so subjective... talking about snakes there are some morphs i do not like (visually). But this just me. Anyone else may have different opinion. That's why I never post: "What a ugly picture" or "what a disgusting snake". However when I see good picture or beautiful (for me) snake I make comment. Of course.

Different thing is when beautiful = expensive. That means you cant make beautiful picture just because you have normal BP. You do not get it? let me give you an example... posting pictures of Panda-pied. Pics should be blurry, ugly, common as usual... but still it's $23k snake (as noticed in other post in forum) so it's beautiful. My point is I have that feeling sometimes from some posts...

note:
Another example... I have just one snake at home and it's normal. Sometimes I have feeling from some posts like: oh... one snak only? what a looser... and... and... he has normal!!! looser of losers...)

---

I sincerely hope that no one here ever gives another member the feeling that their one normal type ball python isn't quite good enough or they are a "loser" for chosing to be a pet snake owner. That's an elist attitude that I personally find very offensive and driven by an ego that is just nasty. I don't care if a person owns 1 or 100 snakes, it's how they feel about owning those snakes, their committment to their pet, their hobby or their business that intrigues me. Personally I always hate to see "just" a normal, as if a normal ball python is not quite up to par. I own a lot of normals, nothing "just" about any one of them.

I love normals! If it weren't for them, I would have never gotten into ball pythons!!!! :love:

One thing missed is that some of us value different things in the different morphs.

What I like in cinnies and mojos are not what is been selectively bred for the last few years.

I like what attracted me to them in the first place. I like em DARK. :)

I do not sugar coat it, and I may be selective in what I say. But there is always something to be said... such as...

"Glad you got a snake you are happy with!"

"Nice healthy robust snake..."

"Your snake is in an attentive home, and that is always nice to see."

Etc., etc., etc.

If someone asks me the grade of their enchi, pastel, etc... I will tell them. But if someone posts a pic and says "I just got a new snake!" I am not going to tell them "Crappy low-grade pastel buddy."

They are not solicitating my negative response or my judgement on what I find attractive or valuable.

If their snake is a lower grade of the morph in question, that is not up to me to decide. Again, my idea of a nice cinnie or mojo would probably be considered lower grade by most people, but it is what I like... and if I am the one caring for it, feeding it, and housing it... then I guess, that is up to me, right?

Bruce

Every snake I see is the most beautiful snake I've ever seen in my life. Period.

Thats funny...

I read a lot of posts about every snake being beautiful (I know, I know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder) but at the very same time, these comments come from many that participate in an industry where the status quo of beauty is quantified in dollars and cents; the better looking, the more beautiful, the higher blushing or striking a snake is, the more its worth, and poor expressions of the same morph sell for less.

Put another way; the ball python morph industry is ALL ABOUT LOOKS, PERIOD.

BrandonsBalls

Sure there are snakes that are better looking than others, but that doesn't make one or the other ugly.

I personally am new to snakes. I've only had mine for 3 weeks or so. So, when I see a new snake, or a new color, design, name etc, I think it's cool. So, I say so. I don't really love snakes, I love looking at them, and am warming up to mine (well, after 1 more feeding, one owner suggested 4 successful feeds before handling) But I'm spraying water for humidity, watching for signs of shedding, feeding him, cleaning the cage, water etc. So, when I see another snake and another owner who has been where I am now, I feel in awe. Knowing one day I'll be where some of you are is amazing to me.