Making the cleanest BEL

I recently saw on a post that said the mojaveXmojave produces the least white of the BELs. So what's the way to go to get the whitest of the white?

Thanks,
Dennis

I believe lesser x lesser, but I think butter x butter is great too!

My favorite Lesser X Lesser :gj:

I'll go with White Diamonds and Butters. :)

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

I'll go with White Diamonds and Butters. :)

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Agreed.

Lesser x lesser IMHO. I haven't seen the White Diamonds Luet yet.

im also in favor of the White Diamond AKA Russo x Russo AKA super Russo

Thanks everyone. Now to start save ungodly amounts of cash...:rolleyes:

Ok so I just did some quick searches on lesser BPs and I found that they are only a naturally occurring morph and they can't be produced. So why would a 2004 lesser platinum only be $2500 on Ralph Davis' site? This is an adult animal that cannot be produced in captivity yet its going for $2500. So is my info on lessers faulty or are they just not that pricey?

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Hapa_Haole

Ok so I just did some quick searches on lesser BPs and I found that they are only a naturally occurring morph and they can't be produced. So why would a 2004 lesser platinum only be $2500 on Ralph Davis' site? This is an adult animal that cannot be produced in captivity yet its going for $2500. So is my info on lessers faulty or are they just not that pricey?

Thanks.

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Im not really gettin at what your saying here. If its that lessers can't be produced in captivity, that is faulty. Lessers are a big hit in the BP world and are definatly being reproduced in captivity.

Lesser platinums came from Ralph's original Platinum. All lesser platinums in captivity today came from Ralph's animal, but they are definitely being produced.

Lesser x normal = 50% lesser, 50% normal.

Ok I figured that info was rubbish. Thanks!

Yes, and if you GET a lesser, then you can make MORE lessers. You can't get anything that is "HET" for lesser however. SO don't fall for that if someone tries to sell you one.
It's either a lesser, or a luecistic. No hets. Just in case!

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Yes, and if you GET a lesser, then you can make MORE lessers. You can't get anything that is "HET" for lesser however. SO don't fall for that if someone tries to sell you one.
It's either a lesser, or a luecistic. No hets. Just in case!

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Technically, a BEL is het for Lesser, no?

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Technically, a BEL is het for Lesser, no?

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wouldn't that be more like a Lesser het for BEL? :p

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

wouldn't that be more like a Lesser het for BEL? :p

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Oopsie, you're right.

Messed it up, sorry.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Oopsie, you're right.

Messed it up, sorry.

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eh.. that's okay.. you had the right idea :D

Ralph says the cleanest and whitest BEL is from a Pied bred to a Lesser Het Pied...:gj:

Hi,

Doesn't that have black eyes instead of blue though? What colour are they if you then breed it back to a lesser het pied and get the double homozygous do you think?


dr del

I would guess that the info about not being able to produce lessers was a misinterpreted response to one of those "how do I make my own, I don't want to spend the money to buy one?" type questions.

You can't produce a lesser unless you have a lesser, but once you have one, it is easy to make more.

Derek, yes I'm pretty sure the lesser pied had eyes that weren't blue. Not quite sure if they were black or what. I would think that the double homozygous would have blue eyes and be the most astonishingly white BP we've seen yet.

I think he was refering to Ralph's original Platinum Daddy's paintjob has yet been reproduced. They say it's possible that there's a hidden gene.

Although, I'm skeptical about the claim/myth

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I would guess that the info about not being able to produce lessers was a misinterpreted response to one of those "how do I make my own, I don't want to spend the money to buy one?" type questions.

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For me I thought of it more as a trait that wasn't figured out yet or maybe even a polygenic trait. But that didn't sound right considering their availability, low prices, and the lack of all polygenic BP traits (to the best of my limited knowledge).

Thanks for the info about piedsXlessers hetfor pied. There are way too many morphs to keep straight when you're fairly knew to the hobby. :rolleye2:

I'm not very sure about this, but I thought Ralph Davis did eventually produce more like the platty daddy? Isn't it lesser + hidden gene on the same locus?

As far as polygenic traits... well, first of all, as I understand that term, I've always thought it was a misnomer. Doesn't polyloci traits make more sense?

Anyway, I think there are lots of things with BPs that are probably polygenic traits. The coloring & patterning of normals are 2 likely examples. It is just a field that has not been researched much so far.

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Originally Posted by kc261

I'm not very sure about this, but I thought Ralph Davis did eventually produce more like the platty daddy? Isn't it lesser + hidden gene on the same locus?

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Yes he did. There is one in the 07 breeding records. And he has a ButterDaddy in the 08 records

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Lesser platinums came from Ralph's original Platinum. All lesser platinums in captivity today came from Ralph's animal, but they are definitely being produced.

Lesser x normal = 50% lesser, 50% normal.

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Actually that isn't true. You'll hear about "Wild type" Lessers from time to time that were imported that are Lesser Platinums. Word on the street is that Ralph got screwed over...

i thought the lesser X mojave was the cleanest???

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Originally Posted by BT41042

Ralph says the cleanest and whitest BEL is from a Pied bred to a Lesser Het Pied...:gj:

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He does say that, and he showed one in one of his videos, it's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

i thought the lesser X mojave was the cleanest???

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It is way cleaner than mojave X mojave, but I believe lesser x lesser is cleaner, at least on average. Individuals will always vary.

Lesser x mojave BEL is a cool thing in terms of breeding potential, though, since you will get both lessers and mojaves. Depending on what results you are trying to get though, that could be annoying, if for example you'd like to produce lesser pastels, but aren't as fond of the pastave.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Actually that isn't true. You'll hear about "Wild type" Lessers from time to time that were imported that are Lesser Platinums. Word on the street is that Ralph got screwed over...

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Actually, I'd say it is close to a miracle that the hidden gene ever paired up with lesser in the wild to produce the Platty Daddy. Big breeders have spent lots of money on animals that never proved to be genetic. The Platty Daddy did prove to be genetic, even if not in the way it was originally expected/hoped.

The only way I would call it "screwed" is if the person that sold it to Ralph knew that there were other lessers in the wild, that it was the same gene the Platty Daddy carried, and also had other animals known to carry the hidden gene.

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Originally Posted by kc261

The only way I would call it "screwed" is if the person that sold it to Ralph knew that there were other lessers in the wild, that it was the same gene the Platty Daddy carried, and also had other animals known to carry the hidden gene.

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When I say screwed I'm saying that the person in Africa not only knew of it but was actually breeding it themselves. They're not idiots, they know what they have.

I also believe that we would have discovered the hidden gene eventually. Last year someone hatched out Plattys in a "Normal" to Lesser breeding. So I believe it was inevitable.

I thought that Russo X Russo were the cleanest, are lesser x lesser actually cleaner?'

I personally like the "dirty" look of super mojaves - I think plain white is boring.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

When I say screwed I'm saying that the person in Africa not only knew of it but was actually breeding it themselves. They're not idiots, they know what they have.

I also believe that we would have discovered the hidden gene eventually. Last year someone hatched out Plattys in a "Normal" to Lesser breeding. So I believe it was inevitable.

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WHO did what and where is the proof. If you do not have this information then it is just rumor. And make sure it is from reliable sources.

I am not saying it didn't happen but I definitely haven't heard of this.
Please show me.. this Platinum#2 non RDR snake.

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Originally Posted by Hyper Joe

WHO did what and where is the proof. If you do not have this information then it is just rumor. And make sure it is from reliable sources.

I am not saying it didn't happen but I definitely haven't heard of this.
Please show me.. this Platinum#2 non RDR snake.

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Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm going to work on finding it, it was on NERD's forum last year.

Edit: I found it but the pictures no longer work. I'll screenshot it since you have to sign up to NERD's forum to view threads.

Edit#2: Found the guy's website:
http://www.jbpythons.de/Platinum-englisch-page.htm

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Originally Posted by Hapa_Haole

Thanks everyone. Now to start save ungodly amounts of cash...:rolleyes:

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lol

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm going to work on finding it, it was on NERD's forum last year.

Edit: I found it but the pictures no longer work. I'll screenshot it since you have to sign up to NERD's forum to view threads.

Edit#2: Found the guy's website:
http://www.jbpythons.de/Platinum-englisch-page.htm

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I guess you didn't read what I wrote.. "..I am not saying it didn't happen .."
and you took it to heart. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

Now that you posted this everyone including myself has a reference.

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Originally Posted by Hyper Joe

I guess you didn't read what I wrote.. "..I am not saying it didn't happen .."
and you took it to heart. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

Now that you posted this everyone including myself has a reference.

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You didn't hurt my feelings, you implied that I was lying. :gj:

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm going to work on finding it, it was on NERD's forum last year.

Edit: I found it but the pictures no longer work. I'll screenshot it since you have to sign up to NERD's forum to view threads.

Edit#2: Found the guy's website:
http://www.jbpythons.de/Platinum-englisch-page.htm

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The breeder you're referring to is someone in Germany who bred a lesser to a "normal" female that turned out to be a hidden gene carrier.

There was also another breeder in the US that also hatched platinums from lesser x previously unknown hidden gene carrier in 2008, I can't remember who it was off the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by BT41042

Ralph says the cleanest and whitest BEL is from a Pied bred to a Lesser Het Pied...:gj:

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As it turns out, not all lesser pieds are solid white ... so i'm not sure if that's still current.

-adam

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Originally Posted by jluman

There was also another breeder in the US that also hatched platinums from lesser x previously unknown hidden gene carrier in 2008, I can't remember who it was off the top of my head.

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Dave and Marcy of Old World Pythons. They produced a group of beautiful plattys last summer from a lesser to "normal" breeding. Great people if you ever get a chance to do business or even shoot the poop with them!

-adam

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Lesser platinums came from Ralph's original Platinum. All lesser platinums in captivity today came from Ralph's animal, but they are definitely being produced.

Lesser x normal = 50% lesser, 50% normal.

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Not ALL. Year or two back Brian Barczyk had African Lessers that were het for VPI. I asked him about them and turns out one of the parents (can't remember) were imported.


Edit...
Didn't see Aaron already pointed it out. I just read, quoted, and replied.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

As it turns out, not all lesser pieds are solid white ... so i'm not sure if that's still current.

-adam

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Didn't know that - Thanks for the info Adam...:)

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Originally Posted by BT41042

Didn't know that - Thanks for the info Adam...:)

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np. ;)

-adam

A black eyed without the yellow spots is actually the whitest lucy ball. There is absolutely no pattern on them at all.

Barczyk told me it was lesserxlesser hands down, from what ive seen, any combo of lesser, butter, or russo make a clean BEL but any can all show something to "dirty" them up.