Does size matter?

My male BP is a hoss, 4' and 1600 grams. I am currently looking for a certain morph female, but probably will not be able to find one as big as him. I'm wondering, how small of a female is too small for a male this size? In all the breeding pics I've seen the male is always seems smaller than the female.

Thanks

The way you need to look at it is that your female needs to be big and mature enough to breed, and since you do noth ave any previous experience in breeding BP I would highly encourage you to breed a female around 1500 grams 18 months and up. In this case this would mean that the female would be about the same weight than your male.

So now you are trying to sell / trade your python for a breedable sized female?! (I see you just put an add up in the for sale section) You seriously need to slow down.

I have seen so many people come and go in these forums that follow the same steps you have taken so far. you get a snake, you see that morphs cost money, so you immediately get the idea to breed right away to get some of the "easy cash." Or maybe you just want to jump in head first because the idea of creating your own snakes sounds cool...

Dude, do you realize it takes on average 7 months of breeding for eggs to be laid? then 2 months of egg incubation? then a couple more months of getting the hatchlings on a regular enough eating schedule to sell? then a couple more months (if your lucky) to actually sell them? Who knows how far the prices will drop between now and the year + it will take to produce a snake you can sell??? AND THAT IS IF YOU ARE ABLE TO GET YOUR FEMALE PREGO!!!! WHEN YOU GET A FEMALE AT A BREEDABLE AGE, ASSUMING THAT SHE WILL IMMEDIATELY ADJUST AND BE WILLING TO BREED IN THE FIRST YEAR COULD BE A SERIOUS MISCALCULATION!!!

Not to mention all the costs... feeding the breeders, housing them correctly, the incubator, the baby rack, the thermostats, the hides and bowls, the food for the babies, and the time.... The HUGE amount of time.

slow down.

Sorry, wasn't done, I ran out of time to edit my last post. I wanted to add:

You just got your first ball not even 2 months ago and now you want to dump him for your new breeding plans? I don't mean to come across so rough, but this is seriously irresponsible behavior!

:bow: Mike,
Thanks for your concern. It's true that I am new to BPs. But this is a new hobby that I really enjoy. So who are you to judge me? Why do you feel the need to bash others? And you call me "seriously irresponsible"? Aren't you the one that didn't put the water bottle back in your tub, and had to kill 65 ASFs when they got loose in your house and garage? I thought so. :gj:

Drama..... :2cent:

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Originally Posted by M&J in NC

:bow: Mike,
Thanks for your concern. It's true that I am new to BPs. But this is a new hobby that I really enjoy. So who are you to judge me? Why do you feel the need to bash others? And you call me "seriously irresponsible"? Aren't you the one that didn't put the water bottle back in your tub, and had to kill 65 ASFs when they got loose in your house and garage? I thought so. :gj:

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This is below the belt. Mike has a very good, responsible point. I would suggest you heed the advice of more experienced members. In addition, do not bite the hand that feeds.

I would say more, but I think Mike stated it very clearly.

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Originally Posted by ThyTempest

I would suggest you heed the advice

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I would suggest you mind your own business. What is it with some of you people and all the bashing?

Here goes another thread... lol

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Not to mention all the costs...

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I'm just doing my small part to keep the economy going. :salute: My next purchase is going to be a new rack. I guess you have a problem with that to... I know Reptile Basics doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Mitch21

Here goes another thread... lol

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I know what you mean. How did asking a simple question turn into this?

While Mike's delivery may not have been the best, he raises some valid points. For me personally, when I decided that I wanted to breed, I took the time to selectively choose several BABY female ball pythons that I took 2.5 years to raise to breeding weight.

During that time, I learned a lot more about the husbandry and care of ball pythons that was invaluable to me before I ever paired my first snakes.

A breedable sized female is not likely to breed for you in her first year in your collection. They don't adapt well to change and often need a full year to settle in before they'll be receptive to breeding.

I have a female on breeder loan with someone - the male that we agreed she is to be paired with is not ready to breed yet (she was bred to another of their males last season). When asked if I wanted to just bring her home and breed her myself, we decided that the stress of moving her back here would result in a lost season anyway, so she's staying at this breeder's to breed in the '09/'10 season.

Why not just take the time to choose some beautiful baby girls and raise them up yourself to breeding weight? In the meantime, you have 2 years to choose some really cool males to pair them with and great experience under your belt! :)

I suggest a female no smaller than the male.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

I have seen so many people come and go in these forums that follow the same steps you have taken so far.

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Originally Posted by M&J in NC

:bow: Mike,
Thanks for your concern. It's true that I am new to BPs. But this is a new hobby that I really enjoy. So who are you to judge me? Why do you feel the need to bash others?

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Ah, I see you have taken the next step. Someone shows concern for what you are doing and tries to explain things to you and you consider it bashing you, and judging you.. LOL!

Let me ask you this. lets say you have a friend that adopted a puppy (their first dog) just 2 short months ago. They took the puppy in and gave it a loving home. The puppy adjusts well and is very happy in his new home. Within a couple of weeks your friend realizes, even though he knows NOTHING about it, there may be a buck or two to make by breeding another breed of dog. So what does he do? he turns around and tries to dump the puppy he just adopted so he can try to get a different one that he can breed and make money even though he has absolutely no idea what he is doing. Keep in mind there was absolutely nothing wrong with the first puppy. there were no behavior issues, it fit perfectly into the home... It was just a different color, and its babies weren't worth as much money.

Never mind new bee, I am done with you. As far as the ASF's go, considering I am one of (if not the) largest producers of ASF's in the SouthEast, it is people like me that make it possible for people like you to get into such a wonderful species. To talk about the tragic experience I had recently in such a way tells us a lot about you and your character.

This is normally where I would wish you good luck, but to be honest, I'm just not feeling it.

Good Day

Darn Mike...I love puppies........:P

Thank you Robin and Eddie for your replies. Being new to this hobby, I always appreciate when people take the time to give me helpful info.

Thanks again

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

This is normally where I would wish you good luck, but to be honest, I'm just not feeling it.

Good Day

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Agreed. You are taking this way too personally and defensively. This community is here to help, but it is all based on constructive criticism. If you are just going to label all of the advice as bashing because it doesn't fit into your little scheme, then don't expect the greatest welcome. We love having new people getting into the hobby....when they do their homework. Inexperienced keepers that get in above their eyeballs creates bad PR for all of us.

By the way, don't ever tell me to mind my own business after asking a question to which you would like a response in a public forum. It is rude and ignorant, and I only mean offense by the rude part.

I do not see any comparison between the human error Mike made, leaving out a water bottle, and the conscious decisions you are making.

As has been said, Mike's approach was not necessarily the best, but the points he was trying to make are extremely valid.

Adam Wysocki said it best:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Ball pythons will teach you patience ... like it or not ...

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If you don't listen to us, the snakes will teach you.

As long as your ball goes to a good home, then I don't see any problems with it. I also do not think that selling a snake and selling a dog is the same thing. Dogs become attached to their owner. Snakes don't care who their owner is as long as their enclosures are clean, and they are fed and watered. If you want to sell your ball and buy others to breed then do that. Just make sure that you do your research and are ready for the responsibility of breeding and raising clutches. They may not sell as easily as you would think.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

I also do not think that selling a snake and selling a dog is the same thing. Dogs become attached to their owner. Snakes don't care who their owner is as long as their enclosures are clean, and they are fed and watered.

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I both agree and disagree with this to a certain extent. while a snake does not get emotionally attached, it does get attached to every last detail of the owners climate and husbandry practices.

You have to factor in the fact that it is EXTREMELY stressful on the snake to move and change owners. This is the same reason why adult females often times will not breed the first year you have them. If I am reading other posts correctly the snake in question is 9 years old. How many different owners has it had during that time? Look, there is obviously nothing wrong with selling a snake. :gj:

All I am saying is if you agree to take on the responsibilities of owning a snake, and caring for it... and you put it through the stress of a move, and then turn around and try to dump it off on someone else a month later because it no longer fits your new get rich quick breeding plans... that is not good.

A personal note to the OP.... We do love new people on this site. In fact it is a huge part of what this site is all about. I would love nothing more then to help you along the way in this rewarding hobby. That is true for both your ASF's and your snakes.

All I am saying is you are following in the same footsteps as many others have. And the result is never good. Just slow down a little. Believe me, I know it is hard to do... But it is also the responsible thing to do.



Good Luck.

To be fair to the OP, the snake that is now up for sale was purchased as a female. It turned out to be male. A very large number of the people on this site and in the BP world in general would at least consider selling a snake under these circumstances.

It isn't that one factor alone that bothers me. It is the situation as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

A personal note to the OP.... We do love new people on this site. In fact it is a huge part of what this site is all about. I would love nothing more then to help you along the way in this rewarding hobby. That is true for both your ASF's and your snakes.

All I am saying is you are following in the same footsteps as many others have. And the result is never good. Just slow down a little. Believe me, I know it is hard to do... But it is also the responsible thing to do.



Good Luck.

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Amen to that, Mike. When I first joined, I wanted to breed, breed, breed. Except that, breeding costs money, hard work, and lots of additional space. I've put that on the back burner to take care of my current snakes until I can financially provide for them.

I had a normal male, and while he doesn't fit into my breeding plans, the best thing I found for him, was to donate him to my one-day nephew who loves snakes. This teaches him responsibility while allowing me to keep an eye on him.

I think that the op needs to do as much research as possible before plunging him/herself into breeding. It's a serious financial investment as well as a life investment that needs to be thought about.

And we're here to help! The op just needs to come from a different angle without getting offended. You join a forum to get help. Some times, people on a forum are going to thwack you on your nose and THEN push you in the right direction. That thwack hurts, but it's needed. Trust me. I've been thwacked. O_o Just accept it with grace and learn from it. That's all you can really do.

My wife says "No" , but I don't believe her!;)

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Originally Posted by DrLew

My wife says "No" , but I don't believe her!;)

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she just needs more information! In sales anytime a potential customer says "no", what they really mean is "can you please provide me with more information because deep down inside I really do want to buy this worthless piece of crap"

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

she just needs more information! In sales anytime a potential customer says "no", what they really mean is "can you please provide me with more information because deep down inside I really do want to buy this worthless piece of crap"

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Really? I thought it meant something like "How about you throw in this 3 dollar toaster that will burn my house down and we have a deal."

:)

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Originally Posted by M&J in NC

I'm just doing my small part to keep the economy going. :salute: My next purchase is going to be a new rack. I guess you have a problem with that to... I know Reptile Basics doesn't.

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JUST BUILD YOUR OWN IT COST LIKE 80 BUCKS FOR EVERYTHING. And its fun to build. Pretty easy also. Oh and dont feel too bad. They all gang up on me to. And for all the same reasons because i wanted to breed and i am some what new to bp's. So once they figure out I found out some stuff about bp's and cant pick on me about that. Then they all call me stupid and pick on me because i dont type properly. It's fine .

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Originally Posted by M&J in NC

Thank you Robin and Eddie for your replies. Being new to this hobby, I always appreciate when people take the time to give me helpful info.

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The best advice you got in this thread came from Mike, and you chose to bow up like a banty rooster.

You are going down a road that is well paved with good intentions. Seems you're just going down it a little too fast, and we've all seen the end of this movie before...it ain't pretty.

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Originally Posted by rocky88

Oh and dont feel too bad. They all gang up on me to. And for all the same reasons because i wanted to breed and i am some what new to bp's. So once they figure out I found out some stuff about bp's and cant pick on me about that. Then they all call me stupid and pick on me because i dont type properly. It's fine.

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Thanks for this useful post, Rocky...it's always a real slice a sunshine!

Somewhat new???

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=84977

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Originally Posted by M&J in NC

:bow: Mike,
Thanks for your concern. It's true that I am new to BPs. But this is a new hobby that I really enjoy. So who are you to judge me? Why do you feel the need to bash others? And you call me "seriously irresponsible"? Aren't you the one that didn't put the water bottle back in your tub, and had to kill 65 ASFs when they got loose in your house and garage? I thought so. :gj:

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he is human... humans make mistakes... it is what makes us human....