Live? F/t? Or P/K?

Well I Have A Baby Bp And I've Had It For 1 Month And I tried Feeding It Live Like They Did In Petco And It Took It. Then I Tried Feeding It P/K And It Took It, Then I Tried Feeding F/T And it took It. Basically It's Not A picky Eater, Well I Was Wondering What Do You Guys Recommend Me To Feed It? And Why? I'm Basically Confused On What To Stick With. Thanks For Your Time. :confused:

Since your snake shows no preference I'd suggest you pick what you are most comfortable feeding and what you can get at the best quality, that is always in stock convenient to you and is the most cost effective.

Well, this thread has the potential to run about 10 pages since we haven't had a good Live vs. F/T debate for a month or so :D

Sounds like your BP isn't too pickey about how the feeders are presented. Trust me, that's a very good thing. Of course, since your snake is young, it may be trying to eat anything that doesn't eat it, or it may just have a very healthy prey drive. You can work both of these things to your advantage.

You're sure to get plenty of suggestions here, so let me start with mine. Since your BP will eat F/T, I urge you to stick with it for the following reasons:

F/T Pros:
- Your BP won't get bitten
- You can buy in bulk and always have plenty on hand
- Easy to keep different sizes on hand (more important if you have multiple BPs)
- You can leave it in the enclosure for several hours if the snake doesn't take it right off the bat
- If your snake doesn't eat for some reason, F/T is easier to get rid of than live

F/T Cons:
- More time consuming to thaw the rodent
- Takes up space in the freezer
- Some house mates don't want dead rats in the freezer
- When a BP gets older, they may start to refuse F/T
- Shipping on F/T is expensive (if you mail order)

There are dozens of other Pros and Cons, many of which will be pointed out, I'm sure, but these are the biggies.

Please don't buy into the "live has better nutriton" argument. It hasn't been proven one way or the other.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Well, this thread has the potential to run about 10 pages since we haven't had a good Live vs. F/T debate for a month or so :D

Sounds like your BP isn't too pickey about how the feeders are presented. Trust me, that's a very good thing. Of course, since your snake is young, it may be trying to eat anything that doesn't eat it, or it may just have a very healthy prey drive. You can work both of these things to your advantage.

You're sure to get plenty of suggestions here, so let me start with mine. Since your BP will eat F/T, I urge you to stick with it for the following reasons:

F/T Pros:
- Your BP won't get bitten
- You can buy in bulk and always have plenty on hand
- Easy to keep different sizes on hand (more important if you have multiple BPs)
- You can leave it in the enclosure for several hours if the snake doesn't take it right off the bat
- If your snake doesn't eat for some reason, F/T is easier to get rid of than live

F/T Cons:
- More time consuming to thaw the rodent
- Takes up space in the freezer
- Some house mates don't want dead rats in the freezer
- When a BP gets older, they may start to refuse F/T
- Shipping on F/T is expensive (if you mail order)

There are dozens of other Pros and Cons, many of which will be pointed out, I'm sure, but these are the biggies.

Please don't buy into the "live has better nutriton" argument. It hasn't been proven one way or the other.

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Well put, Slim. What he said! :)

Just want to add that I get f/t shipped in the mail and it still comes out to less than half of what it would cost me to buy live from local pet stores here in san diego.

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Originally Posted by scutechute

Just want to add that I get f/t shipped in the mail and it still comes out to less than half of what it would cost me to buy live from local pet stores here in san diego.

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That's a very good point. I've never done a price comparison between live and F/T...I've always fed F/T, and have plenty of sources close to my location, so I never priced them vs. live.

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Originally Posted by Slim

That's a very good point. I've never done a price comparison between live and F/T...I've always fed F/T, and have plenty of sources close to my location, so I never priced them vs. live.

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Where do you find them shipped??????

I had a very hard time reading this post.. Why must you capitalize every word?

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Originally Posted by Demon280z

I had a very hard time reading this post.. Why must you capitalize every word?

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its the way that im use to right but i'll try to stop <----- See I didint capitalize :gj:

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Originally Posted by Slim

Well, this thread has the potential to run about 10 pages since we haven't had a good Live vs. F/T debate for a month or so :D

Sounds like your BP isn't too pickey about how the feeders are presented. Trust me, that's a very good thing. Of course, since your snake is young, it may be trying to eat anything that doesn't eat it, or it may just have a very healthy prey drive. You can work both of these things to your advantage.

You're sure to get plenty of suggestions here, so let me start with mine. Since your BP will eat F/T, I urge you to stick with it for the following reasons:

F/T Pros:
- Your BP won't get bitten
- You can buy in bulk and always have plenty on hand
- Easy to keep different sizes on hand (more important if you have multiple BPs)
- You can leave it in the enclosure for several hours if the snake doesn't take it right off the bat
- If your snake doesn't eat for some reason, F/T is easier to get rid of than live

F/T Cons:
- More time consuming to thaw the rodent
- Takes up space in the freezer
- Some house mates don't want dead rats in the freezer
- When a BP gets older, they may start to refuse F/T
- Shipping on F/T is expensive (if you mail order)

There are dozens of other Pros and Cons, many of which will be pointed out, I'm sure, but these are the biggies.

Please don't buy into the "live has better nutriton" argument. It hasn't been proven one way or the other.

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so its not true about live having more nutrients?

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Originally Posted by psycho

its the way that im use to right but i'll try to stop <----- See I didint capitalize :gj:

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MUCH better! I don't know how you can be used to typing like that, would annoy the crap outta me.. Looked like one long sentence to me. :confused: Kind of like when people write in all caps, but worse.

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Originally Posted by Demon280z

MUCH better! I don't know how you can be used to typing like that, would annoy the crap outta me.. Looked like one long sentence to me. :confused: Kind of like when people write in all caps, but worse.

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LOL! Well no advice for my bp?

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Originally Posted by psycho

so its not true about live having more nutrients?

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It's not true because you simply can't make a broad statement about any prey type like that. You could have really nice f/t prey bought from a good rodent supplier or crappy, thin, badly frozen stuff. You could have nice chunky live rats or mice or you could have thin, underfed ones. It always comes down to, in my mind, buying or producing the best possible prey item that is your snake's only source of nutrition. Where you find that and how you personally choose to feed your snake is in the end up to you. The only other thing is understanding fully the method of feeding you choose so you can do it correctly.

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Originally Posted by psycho

LOL! Well no advice for my bp?

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oops sorry lol

I feed F/t for a number of reasons. It is more convenient, safer than live and I prefer not to have to pre-kill. I don't have any snakes that won't take F/T so it is very easy for me to weigh out their meals. Yes, I'm anal but I can be sure I am feeding appropriately based on their weights. I will always feed F/T if the snake is willing to take it. So, far out of the 10+ snakes I have, I've never been refused.

I buy from a friend that buys in HUGE quantities so I just place an order with her and pick them up when I need to. :gj:

I say go for f/t. While the risk of injury is small when being fed responsibly, there is absolutely no risk with f/t. Plus with f/t its usually cheaper, especially if you buy in bulk. And its also useful if the petshop/breeder is out of live feeders in the size you need. You can always have some on hand.

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Originally Posted by ChristinaP

Where do you find them shipped??????

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If you're asking about live being shipped, I can't help you with that. I feed F/T. There are dozens of places that ship F/T. I don't mess with shipping because I'm lucky enough to have a large exotics store in my area that has great F/T. I also live about a mile from the Hampton Mousery in case I need a certain size of, say rat pup. I can get rat pups from them anywhere from 16 grams up to 38 grams. I have a lot of reptile expos around here as well. That's always a good place to pick up feeders at a good price.

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Originally Posted by psycho

so its not true about live having more nutrients?

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Not in my mind, no. If it were to be proven one way or the other, I would look at the evidence, but right now, I don't think it's been proven.

I saw an episode of snakebytes a while back where they said that there is no nutritional differences between live and f/t that is frozen for less than 6 months. After it has been frozen longer than 6 months, then the nutritional value starts to decline. Something about proteins starting to break down. Somebody might want to verify this info because I might have misunderstood it.

I myself feed live because I grow my own rats. I can guarantee quality rats and if my snake decides to go on a diet, then I just put the rat back with his family to enjoy life for a week longer. I have ASFs so they can't outgrow our bp's.

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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste

I say go for f/t. While the risk of injury is small when being fed responsibly, there is absolutely no risk with f/t. Plus with f/t its usually cheaper, especially if you buy in bulk. And its also useful if the petshop/breeder is out of live feeders in the size you need. You can always have some on hand.

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There actually IS one risk with feeding f/t and that is not properly defrosting the prey and it still being frozen in the middle. That can cause the prey to rot in the belly of your snake, potentially leading to its death.

There are risks in both live and f/t and the keeper should be aware of all risks.

I only feed f/t to my kingsnake, but that's simply for convenience sake.

I breed my own rodents and have only fed live to all of my ball pythons, and have never offered them f/t or pre-killed. I've been feeding live for over three years and never experienced any life threatening injury. A nick or a scratch here or there, but nothing that endangered the life of any of my collection.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Please don't buy into the "live has better nutriton" argument. It hasn't been proven one way or the other.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by psycho

so its not true about live having more nutrients?

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

It's not true because you simply can't make a broad statement about any prey type like that. You could have really nice f/t prey bought from a good rodent supplier or crappy, thin, badly frozen stuff. You could have nice chunky live rats or mice or you could have thin, underfed ones. It always comes down to, in my mind, buying or producing the best possible prey item that is your snake's only source of nutrition. Where you find that and how you personally choose to feed your snake is in the end up to you. The only other thing is understanding fully the method of feeding you choose so you can do it correctly.

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Originally Posted by anatess

I saw an episode of snakebytes a while back where they said that there is no nutritional differences between live and f/t that is frozen for less than 6 months. After it has been frozen longer than 6 months, then the nutritional value starts to decline. Something about proteins starting to break down. Somebody might want to verify this info because I might have misunderstood it.

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I want to add a little to this. First of all, as Joanna (frankykeno) pointed out, there is going to be a MUCH bigger difference in nutrition based on the quality of prey you start out with, than whether or not it has been frozen. So looking for a source of quality feeders is more important than whether that source is live or f/t. You might have other reasons to choose one or the other, but nutrition shouldn't be it unless it is because you choose f/t because you can get quality f/t shipped to you and you can't find quality live feeders.

As far as it breaking down in the freezer, yes, it does. Vitamins, protein, etc. It all starts to break down. But it doesn't magically start at 6 months, that is just a rough estimate of when enough has broken down for it to start to be significant. It will also depend a lot on how you store it. Unopened vacuum-sealed packages stored in a freezer that never gets opened will keep the food better for longer than something like a ziplock bag that you open every feeding day stored in a freezer that gets opened multiple times every day. Also, just because a vitamin breaks down, does not mean it evaporates. The building blocks are still there. So whether or not it is still useful to the snake depends on whether or not the snake needs that vitamin, and whether or not enough of that vitamin remains in an unbroken down form, and whether or not the snake can use the building blocks to create the vitamin itself. Since most of this has not been studied in BPs, we can't say if the difference between live & f/t matters, but the number of people who successfully feed snakes on a diet of purely f/t prey indicates that it is not an issue.

I just fed my new (and first!) male for the first time yesterday.
He's just under a year, and has been on f/t all his life. Took it right away.

I'm lucky, because the people I got him from run a store in town, the Reptile Feeder Shop. They're both serious about reptiles, breed most of their own feeders, and their own mice and rats. All of their f/t are fresh and vacuum sealed.

I'm happy with f/t for convenience, easy disposal if they don't take it, and because I'd still be sad watching a live mouse get eaten at this point. I've had pet rodents all my life, haha.

why isnt nobody recommending me to feed p/k isnt the same as f/t?

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Originally Posted by psycho

why isnt nobody recommending me to feed p/k isnt the same as f/t?

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Prekilled generally means the animal has been freshly killed.

Btw, that is a double negative.

I feed pre-killed to my hognose (won't eat live). It is an alternative. Fairly easy to do with a keyboard cleaner and a ziploc bag. Advantage - no need to thaw out, and of course, won't hurt your snake. Great for those who has a quality live breeder close-by or if you breed your own.

By the way, I went to PetSmart today and I found this thinga-magic called Artic Mice Defroster. Interesting stuff. You fill it up with water, put a "landing disc" that sits above the water line, nuke it in the microwave to warm the water up, then put the frozen mouse/rat on the disc and let sit for 6-9 minutes. Dunno if this thing works but it looks like a great invention...

I feed live simply because thats what my BP was raised on so i didn't want to mess with what she was already eating consistently.

If i had my choice i would love to do F/T but i just don't want her to refuse and then for some reason go off feed(that would be my luck). There is just less hassle with having to run to the pet store for live once a week.

Just a thought. I know that if you cook veggies for instance they lose some of their nutrients. Perhaps freezing could have the same effect on mice?

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Originally Posted by psycho

why isnt nobody recommending me to feed p/k isnt the same as f/t?

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Nope, one is where the rodent has been killed then frozen and you need defrost it and bring it to temp again. The other is when you freshly and humanely kill it then offer it immediately to the snake.

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Originally Posted by anatess

By the way, I went to PetSmart today and I found this thinga-magic called Artic Mice Defroster. Interesting stuff. You fill it up with water, put a "landing disc" that sits above the water line, nuke it in the microwave to warm the water up, then put the frozen mouse/rat on the disc and let sit for 6-9 minutes. Dunno if this thing works but it looks like a great invention...

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I do remember someone here at BPNet bought and used that. Darned if I remember if it was worth buying though, sorry.

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Originally Posted by DrEwTiMe

Just a thought. I know that if you cook veggies for instance they lose some of their nutrients. Perhaps freezing could have the same effect on mice?

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This is not correct. There is no corralation between cooking and freezing. Frozen rodents hold their nutrients just fine, up to a certain amount of time. Though this has not been studied, 6 months seems to be a pretty good rule of thumb.

I haven't fed f/t in ages (other than here and there) but I seem to remember I was told it was up to 6 months for hairless prey and 6 to 9 months for fully haired prey. That assumes of course that you are storing them correctly in properly airtight freezer bags and not thawing and re-freezing them.

OK so I didn't read all of these posts...

I breed my own so I feed live.

I prefer to feed live because if the snake don't eat it I can put it back.

If you have a snake that takes F/T readily then I would go with it because there is less risk of injury, other then that if you don't mind throwing away a few rats then F/T is the way to go.

On the other hand if you don't mind having a pet for a week (or in some situations a few months) then live should be ok, if you feed live always supervise.

Mike

well i want to thank all guys for your advice and like i dont breed my wn mice i'm going to start feeding it F/T