Feed question

My ball won't eat.

The pet store gave us a feeding chart. It Shed Jan 31-Feb 1, offered on 2-3, fed Feb 4th. Fed again the Feb 12th, fed again Feb 17th, shed Feb 26-27. Fed March 4, and March 9. We got him the 14 which was feeding day. We offered the 14th and 17th but he didn't eat either time.

They were feeding him 2 pinkies, but she gave us fuzzies and said he was ready to move to fuzzies, so is it a change in food, he doesn't like fuzzies? Is he close to shedding time?

We bought 2 digital thermometers and his temp for the cold side stays around 87 and the warm side stays around 99, so his temps are ok, he shouldn't be cold. Should we wait a few more days and re-offer fuzzies or go back to pinkies???
Thanks

Pinky and fuzzie mice?

a hatchling Ball Python can easily take small-medium adult mice right out of the egg.

also its not a surprise it will not eat since you just brought it home. its a lil stressed. wait a week for it to get acclimated then try feeding again.

Yes, mice.......is that the wrong food??

no mice are ok. its just they have instructed you to under feed the poor thing.

only time i feed hoppers or fuzzies is to my Baby Boa, or if my BP starts to get a little but picky and i need to get the ball rolling on feeding again.

next time you buy a food item ask for a smaller adult mouse. thats a more fitting meal.

i dont think my BP would even show intrest in something as small as a pinky now.

Hi,

Actually your temps might be a bit too high. Where are you measuring those?

And I think the food might be a little to small - unless of course you mean a pinky or fuzzy rat?

Have you read through the caresheet - it has a nice section on possible causes of not eating.

Have you asked the shop how they were preparing and presenting the meal for him?

Do you pre-scent before offering him the food?

How often are you offering the food and how often are you handling him?

Once we get a few of these answers we will hopefully be able to help get you off to a good start. :gj:


dr del

is it me or do her temps seem a little high??

temps should be 82-85 ambient temp, and 89-93 on the hot side. Also what kind of set up do you have? Humidity might be bothering him. They should have 40-55% normally.

also how do you heat the tank?

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

is it me or do her temps seem a little high??

temps should be 82-85 ambient temp, and 89-93 on the hot side. Also what kind of set up do you have? Humidity might be bothering him. They should have 40-55% normally.

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they could be. but i know in my rack my Accu-temp reads 98*F however surface temperature read via thermal gun is is 92*f so it depends how the temps are being read.

I have a digital that sits right above the heat pad and a digital that's on the cold side half way up the tank. That's where I was told to put the thermometers.

I heat the tank with the under the tank heater and a black light that sits on top, 60 watt, the 45 watt didn't get the temp above 75, so we went tio a higher watt.

I haven't pre-scented, would I also get that at the pet shop?

The lady at the pet shop said she warms it for 15 mins in hot water, until there's no heat difference between your hand and the mouse, she then moves him to a smaller cage and feeds him there.

Set up
1 wooden hide
1 cardboard hide I made since I couldn't find a second hide big enough
carpet (will be changing to aspen when Nick gets paid tomorrow)
small rock water bowl (again will be changing to a dog bowl tomorrow when pay day)
3 plastic and ceramic flowers
2 digital thermometers
1 hygrometer (stays around 60-75%)
10 gallon tank

oh, and handling, I have only held him 2 times, Nick's held him the other 2 times (that was moving him to a smaller feed tank, he wasn't really handled)

The temps on the care sheet said basking ~85, and warm ~95, I thought my temps fell in that range????

Thanks for the help!

Give a few weeks to get acclimated. Make sure your husbandry(temps, tight hides,low traffic) are up to snuff. Feed in the enclosure and at night.
Pre-scent.

Live Pinkys and fuzzies you can leave in overnight(at least i do) so that helps a little.

Caresheet here says temps 80-90, so I will lower the heat and see if that works. The petstore gave us like 10 pages of care and it said temps 85-95 soooooooo

95*F is fine as long as its no higher.

i try to keep my hot side 94ish but it usually ends up being 92ish.

I"ll try to address somethings here. I'll probably miss some of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChristinaP

I have a digital that sits right above the heat pad and a digital that's on the cold side half way up the tank. That's where I was told to put the thermometers.

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I know the pet store told you that. They always do, but they are always wrong. The temps should be read where the snake is, which is on the bottom of the enclosure, not halfway up. Make sure your hygrometer is digital as well as your thermometers.

Quote:

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I haven't pre-scented, would I also get that at the pet shop?

The lady at the pet shop said she warms it for 15 mins in hot water, until there's no heat difference between your hand and the mouse, she then moves him to a smaller cage and feeds him there.

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Pre-scenting just refers to leaving the prey near the snakes enclosure for a while before you offer it to the snake. The snake will smell the food and get in feeding mode. What I do when feeding f/t is to set it on a plate near the snake's enclosure while the prey item defrosts. If you need to speed it up a little bit (which you will as your snake takes larger and larger prey), you can put it in a baggie in warm water, but leave the top of the baggie open so the smell can escape. I don't like actually getting the prey items wet in the water, because sometimes this causes them to explode...yuk. Once the snake has had at least 15 minutes of pre-scenting, and the prey item is FULLY defrosted, I give it a blast with a hair dryer, especially at the head, which has the effect of suddenly raising the level of pre-scenting, and also gets the prey item warm enough. The same temp as your hand is not warm enough. A rodent's body temperature is a few degrees above that of a human's, and your hand is not as warm as your core temperature. I also find that with a reluctant snake, heating the prey item even a bit above what I think is the correct temperature to match that of a living rodent seems to help. Just don't cook it.

Another alternative, which I used in the past but is not convenient anymore because I have too many snakes and only one heat lamp, is I would put the prey item under a heat lamp to defrost. I just kept checking it & turning it until it was the proper temperature.

There is no need to move him to a different enclosure to feed him. Sometimes this causes the animal to be stressed and refuse to eat.

For your setup, if by wooden hide you mean one of those half log things, they typically aren't secure enough for shy BPs. They prefer something that is tight and low. It should be just big enough for the snake to fit in with sides touching. This does mean you have to change hides several times as they grow, but they really seem to prefer something too small to something too big. A lot of people use those saucers that are designed to go under potted plants; just turn it upside down and cut a small hole for an entrance. Many other sorts of plastic bowls work just as well. The cardboard hide you made might be great, but be prepared to replace it often when it gets soiled or just soggy from the humidity.

Until he is settled in and eating consistently, I would recommend you only handle him the minimum amount necessary for cage maintenance.

Other people have already addressed your temps, which do sound a bit too high.

I have a notebook for him I have been writing stuff down so I can go back to it if I run in to this, until I have more experience. I appreciate what you guys have said.

The cardboard is on the warm side, and it's a bout 6 inches high, 6 inches in diameter, and he LOVES it. He spends his time in there, so I may end up making him one for the cold side. He likes the log but tends to stay towards the back of the log.

They said to move him to feed because he will become cage aggressive thinking that the "hand" is giving food and strike when you put your hand in to handle him. Is that not true??

he wont become cage aggressive. thats one of the biggest pieces of miss information. I feed in a separate tub. just for sanitary reasons. but i also feed in the cage if its late or im feeling lazy.

there are 2 reasons it will strike. 1) it sees and smells food. and 2) ur scaring the bejesus out of the poor thing.

i have had a rat in my hand watched my bp go into a feeding frenzy and still did not strike until i set it down and he identified it as pray with sight, thermal vision and smell. then it comes to feeding BP's are smart. they are so smart about food that they get picky as to what they feel like eating. it wouldn't think you or your hand is food. it does not move or thermally look like a mouse or rat. but you can get bit if your presenting the food in your hand. there is always the possibility of a strike and miss. but i asure you that your not a menu item.

Hi,

I certainly never found any truth to it - they get used to a set routine and , with pre-scenting especially, should easily be able to tell when there is a meal in the offing and when you are just cleaning the cage etc. :)

I feed all of mine in their cages and do not have any problem with handling any of them or them being aggresive in the slightest.

And I am one of the idiots that feeds by dangling the rodent from my fingers. :P

Accidents do happen more often that way but I never did get round to buying long forceps and the snakes seem to have got used to the idea.


dr del

Ok, so that makes more sence than what she was telling me at the store.

Since I offered on the 17, should I offer again around the 24th? I think next week, looking at the chart, should be his shed week. But I don't see any signs of shedding yet

oh and since he's not eating, should I wait until he has a feed before I change his carpet to aspen?? Would the change cause stress?

Thanks!!

I do think it is entirely possible that a snake could get "cage aggressive" and think you are food... IF the only time you ever open up the cage is when you feed it. Then it would associate opening the cage with food. But since proper care requires you to do cage maintenance a lot moe often than that, for fresh water and cleaning up waste, then any good keeper will never have that problem.

I would offer food once every 5 days if you have a hatchling, or once every 7 days if you have an adult. Unless the snake is underweight or otherwise unhealthy, missing a few meals until it gets settled in and starts eating won't hurt it at all.

Keeping a notebook is an excellent idea. Many keepers keep little notecards on each enclosure to keep track of things like feedings & sheds.

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Originally Posted by ChristinaP

Ok, so that makes more sence than what she was telling me at the store.

Since I offered on the 17, should I offer again around the 24th? I think next week, looking at the chart, should be his shed week. But I don't see any signs of shedding yet

oh and since he's not eating, should I wait until he has a feed before I change his carpet to aspen?? Would the change cause stress?

Thanks!!

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I would make the changes, that carpet can get nasty fast. I would also get some tighter fitting hides. 6" tall is a little too tall. For comparison my hides for my ball pythons are 2.5" tall. Changing to tight fitting hides may be just what he needs to get started on eating regularly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChristinaP

Ok, so that makes more sence than what she was telling me at the store.

Since I offered on the 17, should I offer again around the 24th? I think next week, looking at the chart, should be his shed week. But I don't see any signs of shedding yet

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I wouldn't worry about him not being on the "shed schedule." They shed when they grow a lot and the skin gets too tight--not necessarily on week 4, for example. If you have a young one they will generally shed every 4-5 weeks. Don't worry it yours takes a bit longer or shorter.
Good thing you knew about this forum so you can get a better start with your new ball than the miss-information from the pet store.

Isn't this site great !! Everyone here has a wealth of info.

I hate to say it but you might have to try live temporarily if none of the suggestions here work, because there will come a time where your snake eating will become paramount. My babies were doing pretty good on F/t when i first got them but that ended suddenly and after about 5 weeks of "off feed" i made the switch to live rat pups and they've been eating regularly ever since. I definitely will make the switch back to f/t as they get older. Young bps can be real fussy eaters. I had this conversation with Brian from BHB and he has the same issues.

1.0 normal
0.1 albino
1.0 spider

Trott- I totally agree on the live feeding. Our little male didn't eat until we filled his tub with crumpled up newsprint for a week then offered a live mouse. Previous to that he had only eaten f/t. Hopefully he will go back to f/t eventually.

We got him to eat last night, THANKFULLY!!!

I thawed the frozen in hot water for 15 mins, then I put it in his cage under the heat lamp, added some paper to the top so the scent wouldn't escape. He came out about 15 mins later, so I quickly grabbed the tongs and dangled it infront of him. He immediately struck it and balled around it and ate it. Very cool to watch.

I appreciate the tips!!

Awesome , That's cool. There are plenty of options . Husbandry and stress are usually the main culprits for a non feed (besides a shed). If they're young theres more concern than as an adult. My next pruchase will probably be a well started adult. Probably lemon pastel.

Trott- I totally agree on the live feeding. Our little male didn't eat until we filled his tub with crumpled up newsprint for a week then offered a live mouse. Previous to that he had only eaten f/t. Hopefully he will go back to f/t eventually.

For me F/T is just easier. Don't want to have to deal with keeping live feeders. Mine went off feed for about 5 weeks. I got attached to the mouse i had and now i have another pet.