Don't judge me!!!!

Ok so this was a stupid title but I could not think of what else to call it.

So to the point. I just read a thread about vet bills and stuffs.

I answered from the heart then I thought about it and came up with an answer from the brain.

From a collector/pet point of view it would make sense to spend what ever it takes to get the animal back to health if it is possible.

From a breeder point of view... A not so popular point of view. Obviously depending on the rarity of the animal and likely hood of it being a viable breeder, I do not think it would be prudent to spend more then the value of the animal. What do you think and don't just answer think about your answer from both as a collector and lover of these animals and from a money/breeder point of view.

Mike

A good thread and an interesting topic Mike, I do hope you don't mind if I stuff my nose into it LOL

For me, maybe because I'm an old broad with a load of common sense, or that I grew up around farmers and hunters but I have a view of the place animals hold in my life that isn't always popular. I love the animals but in the end, whether as a pet owner or a breeder/collector, they remain "in their place". The needs of my family are first, the needs of the whole collection has to be, for me, more important than the needs of a single animal if the costs of vet care for that animal would place me in a position of being unable to properly provide for those that depend on me.

I also take into consideration the quality of life vs simply getting more days counted off. I've had very old cats and dogs that simply needed the rest and that last trip to the vet. I could have chosen expensive surgeries but without any real promise of a painfree life for my aged pets, I chose to honor the time we'd had and not prolong it because I couldn't face their loss.

I do have snakes in the collection that may never breed. The spider from Tim being a good example. Grace may not be breedable and that's okay. We made the choice when we offered to take her, knowing her full medical background. That's a personal choice thing from the heart and we can afford to keep her regardless of her genetic potential.

All this babble basically means I guess that I'll always take a very common sense approach to the snakes when hard decisions must be made. Some are just not viable, some you can save, some you likely cannot. Being level headed about that, taking the whole picture into account is what I personally strive to do. Sure I may go off and have a good cry about it in private at some point, I've a very tender heart but in the end the decisions Mike and I make will be ones we are comfortable with.

Very intersting point Mike. I dont know what to put in the poll because I am a collector but I also breed. Now I dont breed for $ like a business because if that was the case i would be loosing $ hand over fist and be out of business. I love working with these animals and have my own contracting business which is how I support my family and my animal collection. If I can make some extra bucks to support my hobby, more power to me. But from an investment point of view, I am loosing my ass, but I dont care or look at it that way.

I agree with Jo, I have spent many hundreds on vet bills for snakes that dont make me a dime. I think when you have any captive or domestic animal you take a responsibility for that animals well being. But the well being of my family and myself is my ultimate responsibility and priorities must be set.

Many years ago we had a dog (Taylor,a mini schnuazer)that at the age of 2 started having clusters of seizure (10 at a time) poor thing looked like it was on its death bed. Well my wife was so upset when this happened she thought we should put him down. I grew up with a brother that had seizures and obviously my parents treated him as best as medicine could. I said I was not going to give up on him just yet. The vet bills got a little hairy and I was faced with the fact that I may need to put him down because at the time I just couldnt afford treatments. He would have to go to the vet and get a shots of valium every time he had an episode. Well thanks to the internet we found out we could give him the medication rectally, the vet had not idea this could be done, and that saved us a significany amount of $ as we could do that ourselves. We then were referred to another vet who said he also had thyroid problems changed all his medications and that dog lived to 14 not having seizures for over 10 years.

If you approach snakes as an investment than you will make a decision based on $. If you keep snakes because you love animals than you will probably do what you can in your power to help them.

I brought up my dog Taylor because I belive in karma to the point that for every action there is a reaction. If you try to do the right thing to the best of your abilities(that is different for everyone) than the right things usually happen in return, even if that result is not felt or noticed immediately.

Getting back to vet visits, although they cost me alot of $ treating some sick snakes I learned alot about how to care for these animals better and I did loose one snake(albino) that I paid alot of $ for(back in the day). The knowledge I gained from treating and learning about these guys is worth more than any vet bill. I even have done telephone/internet appointments with Dr. Stahl in Maryland(the best!) to check on an animal, that ended up being fine, but if I didnt spend the $ I wouldnt have that knowledge and experience I now have gained. My collection is way better off(and myself) for going the extra mile and learning from those who know alot more than I did.

In the end the reason my snakes were getting RI's was not because of temps like most people would assume. I kept mine spot on. The problem was we have forced air heating in my house which blows hot dry air, complicate that with where I live (desert conditions) and these guys were getting blasted with hot nasty dry air and when winter hit the snakes at the top of the rack(closest to the heating vent) were getting respitory irritations leading to RI's. It was also causing me to have sinus problems, what must it be doing to an animal that lives in a dirt hole in humid Africa. I havent had any problem for years since making a minor adjustment.

My point you take care of them and it comes back to you. I now have experience and knowledge on how to treat sick snakes(how to give shots, do cultures etc..) that I can share and help others with and have very happy healthy critters in my collection.

Hindsight it was $ well spent even if friends and family (wife)thought it was rediculous spending that much cash helpng a snake.

Well Mike, as you well know, I'm a collector and have no breeding plans of my own. Right now I own nothing more expensive than a Co-Dom, but that will change this summer. Were one of my boys need extensive Vet care with the associated cost, I would pay what I could to make it happen...might even get a litte creative about how to come up with more, but wouldn't take food out of the twins mouths to pay anything it cost. At a certain point, you have to face the reality of the situation.

I'm also a big quality of life kind of guy, so that would have to factor into the equation.

Hey guys I am going to move this over to the BP section. The reason I did not post it over there is I was afraid I would get some nasty results...

I was afraid that people would not really "think" about what I was saying and just get all pissy.

Mike

As long as it can have a fairly normal life, I would do whatever I needed to do to make it happen. I cant really compare money cost of a vet bill to the animals I have because to me they are priceless. I see it this way... I am the one that obtained them and that puts me fully responsible to them to provide them nothing less than the best at all cost period. Thats just the standard I hold myself personally to.

There are business decisions...

There are personal decisions...

These being the case, every decision made on this topic would probably contain a certain % of each, which, in the end, should determine what you actually do.

BrandonsBalls

It depends on the situation but I said no because if I'm spending TONS of money in vet bills, chances are the animal is very very sick. I couldn't stand to see it if it's hurt or in pain. I would have it put to sleep. I don't know what they do with snakes, but we had our 5 year old dog put to sleep after her Chemo didn't work. They would have to do surgery to remove her back 2 legs, and part of her intestines. There was no value of life after that. It would be t he same with my snake. If he wouldn't have a value of life after than no. If he did than yes.

I think a lot (but not all of it) depends on the emotional attachment to it. If a pet of mine is new I think it would be easyer for me to let it go. BUt if I have had it for a period of time i think it would be harder to not see a vet. For me it would also depend on the amount for the vet bill. Even if it was high, if I could afford it I probably would. IF it was extremly high, I probably wouldn't be able to bring myself to do it even if I wanted and could afford too. To me, to pay more to heal an animal is ok but to pay a ridiculas amount, above the cost of a new animal, doesn't seem right. I know most people will think I am cruel for saying this. I kinda feel like I am a bad person for saying it, but truthfully that is how I feel. But again the more emotionally attached I am to an animal the more amount I would pay to see a vet.

THinking more into it, right now I haven't had my snake for very long. RIght now if it was sick and I was told it would cost like $800-$1000 to heal it I wouldn't do it. But 5, 10, or 15 years from now. I could see myself mabey doing it. Again I just say mabey becuase I have never really been in that situation. But I think after having that long of a connection to my animal I would want it to live if possible.

The only time I have had to take a pet to the vet was a hampster late last year. It was sick right from the day I got it. He had wet tail. (I didn't know that when I bought it of course). I called every vet in town. The cheapest vet said I would have to pay him $60 just so he could tell me it had wet tail even though I already knew that is what it was, and then it would cost about $30-$40 to medicate and take care of it. ANd every vet said after all of it he could still die. SO in my head it was $100 to MAYBEY save my pet that costs about $15. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I hated myself and cried many times for not doing it, but I could not spend that amount of money to save a hampster. Instead I got the advice from someone who bred hampsters and delt with wet tail before. She told me how to treat it and after acouple weeks both of us thought he was getting better, and for a couple days he seemed like he was back to normal health, and then he was just dead.

But that also was jsut a hampster. I would pay more to see a vet for my snake then I would for a hampster.

Just re-reading my last post and noticed, with my hampster the biggest part of why I didn't pay was because there was still a huge chance he would die even after seeing the vet. If he deffinatly would have lived I would have paid the $100, even just for a hampster. So guess a big part of paying a vet bill would be if it is really going to do anything or not. If my snake gets sick and the vet can deffinatly (or at least have a strong chance) of saving him, I would probably pay more then I would want to to save him. Still I know there is a limit to how high I would go, I just would never know what that limit truly was until I had to face it for real

I think you also have to think that as a breeder, the value of the animal is not the price paid, or the price you could get if you sold him then, but also his/her potential value as a breeder. A pastel female pet isn't worth as much $$ as a 3 year old adult pastel breeder female ready to be bred and produce.
A het pied male hatchling? $50. A adult het pied male, ready to breed that throws good pieds from your het pied females? Much more valuable.
This is all considering DOLLAR VALUE. This is beyond the value as a companion, or the 'sentimental' value of an animal that you've had in your collection for a while, or if it might be an exceptionally brilliant individual.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I think you also have to think that as a breeder, the value of the animal is not the price paid, or the price you could get if you sold him then, but also his/her potential value as a breeder. A pastel female pet isn't worth as much $$ as a 3 year old adult pastel breeder female ready to be bred and produce.
A het pied male hatchling? $50. A adult het pied male, ready to breed that throws good pieds from your het pied females? Much more valuable.
This is all considering DOLLAR VALUE. This is beyond the value as a companion, or the 'sentimental' value of an animal that you've had in your collection for a while, or if it might be an exceptionally brilliant individual.

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I am not a breeder but this sounds like a good point.

Hm. I would do whatever it took to help my animal. Whether the snake is a normal or a pied, a life is a life and they deserve the same treatment.

Dannnnng Mike, you're not just peering over the side of the box, you're jumping right out and looking at how small it really is.

Good job.

For me it's animal by animal. They're not my dog, no matter how much I like them they don't care whether I come or go, he does, hence a difference of treatment between them.

Way to go, really.

As a responsible breeder, i would spend whatever it took to get an animal healthy again if it is fixable, and isnt obviously a slim chance thing.

If a snake had massive injuries that it might recover from, i would weigh the odds of that snake living, and living well, versus the cost and the reality of the situation as a whole.

I wont keep an animal alive for my own sake, but i wont put an animal down for my own sake either. I will do what is right by the animal in any case that i can. *edit* I dont care if its a morph, or a normal. They are still living animals, and have every right to the best care i can provide regardless of color. *edit*

Prevention is key. Proper housing and care to start, and you shouldnt have to worry too much about problems. Sometimes they do arise, and as the keepers of these animals, it is up to US to care for them and give them the care and medical attention they might need.

If you get an animal, and refuse to pay a vet bill because its more than the animal is worth then you probably shouldnt be owning animals period.

As a breeder/collector I would look at the vet bill versus cost of the animal plus how important to my breeding efforts.
If I had a 3000 gr. female pied, I would be willing to fork out a bit more for the vet bill, than say a, 300 gr male pastel.
I have paid vet bills that were more than what the animal cost me in the first place. I consider that part of being a responsible pet owner.

By pure business aspect, you should not put out more money to maintain a animal than it can reasonably be expected to produce for you.
However.. in real life.. I've run up really LARGE vet bills on a het pied male. Yes, he was an adult.. but honestly? I could easily have replaced him for about $400(at the time), without any effort. I paid well over a grand for vet bills. Was it smart? No, not really. I was lucky that the vet did allow me to pay payments, which I paid EVERY month, early.
So it's whether or not you look at it from a purely business, or purely pet view. You can't really find that viewpoint from most people.
I'd be interested to see how many of the people that say "Whatever it takes" have had to put out a couple grand on a pet, and whether they were supporting themselves and a family on their income at the time.
Sometimes.. no, it's not worth the bill.. even when the animal WOULD recover. If I had a ball python that would cost me $5K to fix up.. I'm afraid I might have to say no. I couldn't come up with that much, and I could not rightfully say I would put myself into that much debt. I'd feel bad, but all in all.. yeah, I'd say no.
Does that mean I shouldn't own any animals? I don't think so. I think it means I'm a realist. I don't have $5K laying around, and there's not a vet that I've seen around me that would allow payments I could afford to pay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

By pure business aspect, you should not put out more money to maintain a animal than it can reasonably be expected to produce for you.
However.. in real life.. I've run up really LARGE vet bills on a het pied male. Yes, he was an adult.. but honestly? I could easily have replaced him for about $400(at the time), without any effort. I paid well over a grand for vet bills. Was it smart? No, not really. I was lucky that the vet did allow me to pay payments, which I paid EVERY month, early.
So it's whether or not you look at it from a purely business, or purely pet view. You can't really find that viewpoint from most people.
I'd be interested to see how many of the people that say "Whatever it takes" have had to put out a couple grand on a pet, and whether they were supporting themselves and a family on their income at the time.
Sometimes.. no, it's not worth the bill.. even when the animal WOULD recover. If I had a ball python that would cost me $5K to fix up.. I'm afraid I might have to say no. I couldn't come up with that much, and I could not rightfully say I would put myself into that much debt. I'd feel bad, but all in all.. yeah, I'd say no.
Does that mean I shouldn't own any animals? I don't think so. I think it means I'm a realist. I don't have $5K laying around, and there's not a vet that I've seen around me that would allow payments I could afford to pay.

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Just so you dont take my post the wrong way.... Because im a realist too.... Im Bolding this single word, that makes all the difference in my meaning.

"and refuse to pay a vet bill because its more than the animal is worth"

I am an ICU nurse. I deal with "quality of life" issues on a daily basis. I witness family members struggle with life and death decisions regarding their incapacitated loved ones...their parents, their siblings, and their children. That last demographic undoubtedly provokes a pain I cannot begin to fathom.

Those who know me, especially my family, understand that I consider my pets my children. I have had every animal you can imagine as a pet in my adult life. If I didn't feel that I would be able to shoulder both the emotional and financial responsibilities of pet ownership, I would hesitate to continue adding to the family roster. No matter the species, my husband and I feel our animals enrich our lives and we will always do anything within our power to ensure their health and happiness.

I have always been saddened when I hear of a breeder (most notably dogs) who so readily sell an animal that has been "retired" from breeding or showing. I never really understood how a family member could outlive his or her usefulness and just be sent away like that.

I feel as much affection for my three snakes as I do my two Pomeranians. They are all followed by a vet from the moment I bring them home. I took them to raise and will do whatever it takes to do so properly, such as dip into my savings account, sell something, give up something I really don't need (do I really NEED to eat out or have every movie channel known to mankind???). And when quality of life becomes the main issue (regardless of financial burden), I will weigh all possible outcomes and ultimately do what is best for my animal.

Forgive me if I ranted nonsensically, for I am exhausted from a long day at work, but the topic is one that is dear to my heart in both my professional and personal lives.

Robbin

I agree with Joanna - priorities of the whole and quality of life are the determining factors.

Myself and my BF come first in the $$ scheme of things (food, rent, bills...), but I do everything in my power, financially and physically, to give my animals the best life I can give them. I have a savings account especially for the animals, mostly for future vet bill coverage. Of course, I cut corners wherever I can - hides, bedding, decor...but NEVER on essential things like quality food or reliable equipment.

I've had to put pets down before, not only because surgical procedures were beyond means but because the animal might still have suffered afterward. More recently, when I took the little pastel in to the vet I did so prepared to pay for the service, but also ready to have him put down if it looked hopeless. Now, he's the prettiest and plumpest male in the group. :)

When faced with extraordinary vet circumstances, i.e. things beyond normal maintenance, I always ask these questions:
How special is this animal to myself or my partner (emotional ties, therapy pet)?
How much extra money can we give toward its care?
How much MORE are we willing to scrape together, if needed, to keep the animal healthy?
What will its quality of life be with the treatment and without?

I rarely ask how much the animal is worth...since even when I start breeding, these snakes will still primarily be my pets. :)

Since these are living creatures in my care, regardless of whether or not they are breeders that will someday make some money back for me, I would spend whatever I have that would spare them pain & suffering. I have spent hundreds (probably thousands) of dollars picking up stray dogs/cats/rabbits, etc., getting them healthy when needed and then finding them homes when possible. So I definitely would not think twice about spending it on one of my own.

That being said, I do understand those that are more pragmatic & think about the financial side of the hobby. I also understand prioritizing (family, dogs, etc. come first).

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Originally Posted by mooingtricycle

If you get an animal, and refuse to pay a vet bill because its more than the animal is worth then you probably shouldnt be owning animals period.

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I think this is a good point. The question asked for this topic was "Would you spend more then the value of the animal in vet bills?" Everyone, including myself, keeps bringing more factors into the equation then is asked. It is a black and white question and a lot of grey area can be added to it, but it doesn't ask what factors you would make you decide if you pay a vet bill or not, it is just simply asking if your pet cost $300 and a vet bill was $1000 would you pay it? I know there is a lot more needed in thought to pay a vet bill then just this but what would you do if this was the only factor? Not how attached to the pet you are, or if you have that much money in your bank or not, etc.

Earlyer I said I probably won't pay the bill, but really it wasn't because of the cost, it was because of other factors involved. I mention I had a hamster die because I didn't take it to the vet (hamster $15, vet $100). What really made me not take it was the chance of him living was still too low for me to pay that price. If I knew he could live I would have paid the $100 regardless of the fact that it was well over the cost of getting a new hamster. The minimal chance of survival was the factor in that equation, not the money.

So for me, if the vet bill being a higher price then the cost of the pet was the only factor, would I pay more on a vet bill then the cost of my pet, yes I would. As a pet owner/collector.

I think if you take out all the extra factors and just look at the question as basic as it is written, I think the majority of the pet owners/collectors, would pay more. And I think with breeders it could go one way or the other.

You know after re-reading the topic question again I realize my last post could just be completly useless.

The question "Would you spend more then the value of the animal in vet bills?"

It kinda depends on what the first poster meant by "value". If he jsut means cost(which is the way i took it) then my last post works. Cost is balck and white, but value can be a grey area. Value can be money, but it can also be emotional attachment, among other things. So I was just wondering what the first poster means when he uses the word value. Is it just money(like cost of pet and/or how much it can make the breeder) or do you mean how much you emotionally value your pet as well? Or other factors you might wanna include?

Also if money value is the only factor(nothing else) what would you people do? If your pet cost $200 and it would take the vet $1000 to cure it if it was sick would you pay it? I know it will be hard to not add other factors but really try not too. The only other factor that should be considered in this is, for a breeders view, it's not just the cost but how much money that snake can make you. But that factor is still just a part of money value.

Me I would pay it. What would you do?

Personally I would take all animals to the vets regularly if our vets weren't so expensive. I was lucky when my fell and got knocked out it was only $500. if the costs don't equal a healthy happy pet then no I wouldn't spend lots of $$ to keep a sick pet alive one more month. My animals are never sick and die of old age or do instantly( mice virus??) that vets couldn't help!

[QUOTE=wolfy-hound;1014829]
I'd be interested to see how many of the people that say "Whatever it takes" have had to put out a couple grand on a pet, and whether they were supporting themselves and a family on their income at the time.



Jan 26 of 08 my cat passed away. Feb of 2000 I got a pure bread Bengal, payed $1600 for him with out breeding rights. (yes for a cat :P) He was my little man and was by my side every second of every day. Mid 2007 I noticed a lump in his belly just in front of his right hind leg and after several vet and specialist visits it was confirmed cancerous, they thought it could be removed with no long term effects. A cat scan (no pun intended) reviled a spot on his lungs witch was bad news. The specialist told me that if it was cancer removing the tumor would be all for not, as there was nothing that could be done about the spot on his lung.

Just over 8k later in vet and specialist bills, between the surgery, and his stay for 3 weeks at the local animal hospital, (he had a real rough recovery and had to be resuscitated a few times) he got to come home and was back to his old self. 3 weeks later to the day he died. He seemed 100% ok and 10 min later he was DOA in my arms as I ran through the doors of the animal hospital.

I live and support myself, don't have a family yet but spent every spare dime I had on treatment for my little guy. I even sold my brand new motorbike I bought earlier that spring because I just didn't have the money to keep up with the vet bills for Chance.

I can say whole heartedly I would do what ever it takes and if I had to do it all over again I would do it in a heartbeat!

[QUOTE=murray2213;1015161]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I'd be interested to see how many of the people that say "Whatever it takes" have had to put out a couple grand on a pet, and whether they were supporting themselves and a family on their income at the time.



Jan 26 of 08 my cat passed away. Feb of 2000 I got a pure bread Bengal, payed $1600 for him with out breeding rights. (yes for a cat :P) He was my little man and was by my side every second of every day. Mid 2007 I noticed a lump in his belly just in front of his right hind leg and after several vet and specialist visits it was confirmed cancerous, they thought it could be removed with no long term effects. A cat scan (no pun intended) reviled a spot on his lungs witch was bad news. The specialist told me that if it was cancer removing the tumor would be all for not, as there was nothing that could be done about the spot on his lung.

Just over 8k later in vet and specialist bills, between the surgery, and his stay for 3 weeks at the local animal hospital, (he had a real rough recovery and had to be resuscitated a few times) he got to come home and was back to his old self. 3 weeks later to the day he died. He seemed 100% ok and 10 min later he was DOA in my arms as I ran through the doors of the animal hospital.

I live and support myself, don't have a family yet but spent every spare dime I had on treatment for my little guy. I even sold my brand new motorbike I bought earlier that spring because I just didn't have the money to keep up with the vet bills for Chance.

I can say whole heartedly I would do what ever it takes and if I had to do it all over again I would do it in a heartbeat!

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I was just wondering, knowing that in the end he dies, why would you still do it all over again?

I paid a $200 vet bill for a $7 rat and a $1,000 bill for an $80 cat, so yes I would spend more than the animal is worth......no matter what kind of animal. As far as I'm concerned if you can't, or won't, pay the bill then you shouldn't have the animal. :colbert:

well, I never in my life imagined taking a snake to a vet, much less several times. But I'm so happy I did, my rescue is the sweetest girl and I feel good that I did everything she needed. Times are tough, but I will always do what I can. I just hope it will always be enough at the time.

My normal balls are probably not worth much more than say $50. I have definitely spent more than that on food and husbandry, so would I drop money on vet bills over $50? Of course.

That being said, there is a point where I believe it gets excessive.

When I was younger we had a cat named Simon... he was a purebred Burmese, and also the nicest, sweetest cat in the world. I loved him dearly. One day my mom found a lump on his belly, and it turned out to be lymphoma. He was only ten years old, which I'd say is "middle aged" for a cat. Now my mom, she would not let me or my dad have a say in anything. She dropped thousands of dollars on vet bills for him. I was only 11 at the time. What happened was that Simon turned into a zombie from the chemotherapy, and we watched him suffer and slowly fade away. Finally when things were looking far too bleak, my mom decided to have him euthanized. She would not even let me come with her. Honestly, I know she was distraught over his being sick. But I really think she was clinging to something that just was not going to happen. Even at 11, I could see early on that he was not improving at all from the treatment.

Would I drop significant amounts of my money on vet bills for an animal? No. I will pay up to what I feel is a reasonable extent. Anything past that and it is a quality of life issue - if they are really suffering, then I would choose to put them to sleep. I agree with Frankykeno that animals are NOT people... obviously if the question were rewritten to "Would you spend beyond your means on medical bills for a beloved family member or friend", that would be a no-brainer.

Well I think the issue is not, would you prolong the life of the pet even though quality of life was very poor... but rather if the treatment would FIX the pet, would you drop a unending amount of money into doing so?
While a lot of us would say yes, or no.. you don't know until it happens(asin most theorectical discussions). I will not endanger my home to fix a pet. I won't begger myself, and be unable to pay my bills, to fix a pet. I will spend whatever money I CAN to fix a pet, and if the vet will allow payments, I will run up a REASONABLE bill to fix the pet.
I think that most of us differ merely in what we consider reasonable. I would hope that no parent would take food from their child's mouth to fix a pet. I will discontinue luxarys(i.e. tv, internet, etc) in order to pay for a pet's care. I won't turn off my electric. And again.. there's a limit to me. I rarely take MYSELF to a doctor over anything. Superglue and ibuprofin work on me for most injurys.

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Originally Posted by Repfanaticlady28

As far as I'm concerned if you can't, or won't, pay the bill then you shouldn't have the animal. :colbert:

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I was just wondering what you mean by "can't"? Do you mean if you can't afford it?

Well so far I've only had one sick snake. Rogue, me normal rescue just recently had a gastro intestinal infection and I spent almost $200 on his vet bills. I guess that's much more than he technicaly worth from a breeders stand... But my snakes are definitely pets first and in a couple years probably also breeders... I would have to say I would spend as much money as I was able to on my pet if need be... But I don't have much... So I fear if expensive surgery were needed then the decision would not have to be made. I don't have a credit card and I don't have a thousand bucks just laying around. If payment plans were an option with the vet then I guess I would spend almost infinite amounts of money on a beloved pet.

But I don't have a family to support, or a car loan to pay or anything... I have rent to pay, a cheap car and a pretty crappy job so my idea of alot of money and my idea of priorities are much different than alot of people...

Glad this was BTTed as I wouldn't have otherwise seen it.

Seeing as how ALL our pets have been rescued and/or from the pound, i.e. worth just about zero dollarwise, and that routine vaccinations cost a fortune, it's easy to say yes, we spend more than what the critter is worth.

In general, ditto what Frankykeno said. It's a tough decision, made while looking at the overall picture. Our pets are beloved members of the family, even our new BP, but they are also just critters. We won't lose the house over them.

If I raised them for a living, I would make wise business choices. I will do whatever I can afford to take care of my pet, however. I hope it does not go further than feeding him mice.

Yes. I would. We have- many times! lol

I would do it as a pet owner or breeder. I don't think there is a difference.

I would spend more on a dog than I would on a snake, if money was tight. I'd sell my soul to save my dog if he had a chance at quality time and life. Basically, I'd go without food for myself if I had to, for my dog (and I have in the past, thankfully those days are long gone and over)- but he's one very special critter!

My animals' values to me are not in their price tags- I'm a bleeding heart! ;)

I agree with Teresa. I try not to use an analogy of choosing between the life of a person and a pet because i would think/hope that ultimate situation wouldn't arise.
But we just had this conversation in my office where a sales rep i deal with set a $1000 limit on their new 8mo lab pup. He and his wife both do very well financially. They just felt anything more than that was crazy.
So my take on it was that it's hard for me personnally to put a limit on it. I'll spend 5k on a bicycle or materialistic things but not spend it on my dog ?
A broken leg can cost over 1000. I told them they could not spend the 1000 and spend 1500 on a new marble counter top the very next week ?

I know worst case, i throw it on a card and figure out how to pay for it later. Keeping the animals best interest in mind. Obviously I wouldn't spend 5k in chemo on a 15 yr old dog for example.

Now i know that not everyone has the same financial means, and i understand that. But like i tell the woman i work with (single mom,2 kids). Animals arent cheap, even the free ones, so if you can't afford the expenses don't get the animal.

I just discussed this topic with Brian a few weeks ago and he wants to cover it on a SB episode

Yeah, for me my pet is worth a thousands times more to me than any vacation, new car, fancy house, designer clothes, TVs, etc could ever be. I'd gladly have no TV, computer, CDs, car, etc before I'd give up my dog. But, this is a 12 year old dog who has been my only true friend for all those years. Only a cold hearted person indeed could turn his back on such a loyal companion. That said, I would not subject him or my wallet to the trials and costs of extensive and painful treatment at an old age that would likely do nothing but prolong suffering (ie, chemo in a 15 year old dog- I agree- I'd never do that).

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Originally Posted by wilomn

For me it's animal by animal. They're not my dog, no matter how much I like them they don't care whether I come or go, he does, hence a difference of treatment between them.

Way to go, really.

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I agree completely, Wes.

My dog comes before any of the animals. She is my child (since I don't have nor want children, a whole 'nother discussion). My cats are important to me and I would likely spend what I needed to within reason (once spent $3000 at an emergency vet on my cat that ended up dying the next day). The reptiles get the best possible care and its case by case. I consider myself pretty experienced with reptiles and I have a good feel for when a vet is needed. I had a Leo that had a large obstruction in it's vent. Most people I asked said take it to the vet. I felt that it was something that could be taken care of. I gave the animal a soak in warm water and was able to push out the obstruction (which was a large block of urates). I know that some people take their rats to the vet if they get sick. I have to draw the line somewhere. I bred rats for a long time and sick ones got humanely euthanized. It's a fact of life. I now have a couple pet rats and as cute and cuddly as they are, it's unlikely that they would ever see the inside of a vet's office. Does that make me uncaring? I don't think so but some would.

In the end you have to do what's right for the animal as you see it.

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Originally Posted by TheOtherLeadingBrand

Yeah, for me my pet is worth a thousands times more to me than any vacation, new car, fancy house, designer clothes, TVs, etc could ever be. I'd gladly have no TV, computer, CDs, car, etc before I'd give up my dog. But, this is a 12 year old dog who has been my only true friend for all those years. Only a cold hearted person indeed could turn his back on such a loyal companion. That said, I would not subject him or my wallet to the trials and costs of extensive and painful treatment at an old age that would likely do nothing but prolong suffering (ie, chemo in a 15 year old dog- I agree- I'd never do that).

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Yeah, my guy(lab mix) is 11 and he goes with me everywhere. People say they're like kids, but i would call him a great friend. I have a alot of great friends and i would do alot for them. I think i have a pic of him on my profile.

I have a vet fund that i put money into each month. So if one of my snakes gets so sick that the fund is depleted then I would have no choice but to put them to sleep. I have found that preventive care is alot more affordable than emergency care...

Well i got a new royal from a pet shop and she had mites and a skin condition soon after we called up the person who give them their license to keep exotics and they had it removed although i had only had her a few days i still took her to get sorted out and i had to pay about £150 for antibiotics and other treatments to help her, i also have a royal with scoliosis she needs antibiotics every time it gets bad to straighten her out again.. which i am willing to pay for .. also my iguana (5foot male and silly tame) has had serious chest problems and we have had to pay well over £1000 to save him in the last month or so also he will need nebulisers monthly for the rest of his life if it plays up which we have been told it is likely too .. i rescue reptiles and by doing this i see it as my responsibility to do my best for sick animals so this is my choice.. although i only list some of my animals on my signature as snakes are more my thing.. the iggy, beardies, tortoises, boscs, geckos, water dragons etc. are my partners responsibility lol

My babies are my life. I wouldn't trade them for the world. I would sell everything I owned before giving them up. If they need some vet work, no questions asked, they get some vet work. If they need a major operation that I can't afford, I bundle them up along with all the money I have and put them in a home with someone who could afford it.

It's been a really rough past couple of months here... we've been hit with everything, and once their immune systems go down, there's no stopping other problems from arising. We've had MBD (in the beardie), coccidia (in the beardie), pinworms, mites, RIs, and a host of other things. I've spent well over $500 at the vets in the past few months, and that's not counting meds, mite treatment, etc.

No question I would and have paid more on vet bills on a given snake than that snake is worth.




Jodie - Kudos to you for helping your animals! I sense a fellow animal lover. :D

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

A good thread and an interesting topic Mike, I do hope you don't mind if I stuff my nose into it LOL

For me, maybe because I'm an old broad with a load of common sense, or that I grew up around farmers and hunters but I have a view of the place animals hold in my life that isn't always popular. I love the animals but in the end, whether as a pet owner or a breeder/collector, they remain "in their place". The needs of my family are first, the needs of the whole collection has to be, for me, more important than the needs of a single animal if the costs of vet care for that animal would place me in a position of being unable to properly provide for those that depend on me.

I also take into consideration the quality of life vs simply getting more days counted off. I've had very old cats and dogs that simply needed the rest and that last trip to the vet. I could have chosen expensive surgeries but without any real promise of a painfree life for my aged pets, I chose to honor the time we'd had and not prolong it because I couldn't face their loss.

I do have snakes in the collection that may never breed. The spider from Tim being a good example. Grace may not be breedable and that's okay. We made the choice when we offered to take her, knowing her full medical background. That's a personal choice thing from the heart and we can afford to keep her regardless of her genetic potential.

All this babble basically means I guess that I'll always take a very common sense approach to the snakes when hard decisions must be made. Some are just not viable, some you can save, some you likely cannot. Being level headed about that, taking the whole picture into account is what I personally strive to do. Sure I may go off and have a good cry about it in private at some point, I've a very tender heart but in the end the decisions Mike and I make will be ones we are comfortable with.

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As a person also brought up on a "Working Commercial Family Farm" and a former Dog kennel owner, importer, trainer and Schutzhund Competitor I agree 110% with the above. It might seem callous at times but you have to have lived the life to really understand.

i bought a normal 1600 gm female from a reptile show for 45 bucks and being inexperienced on what to look for I got a snake with a very bad RI. One of my herp buddies looked at it and basically yelled at me to take it to the vet ASAP. I spent over 160 bucks in vet cost and the snake still ended up dying about 2-3 weeks later.