My Feeder Euthanizer (DIY CO2 chamber) ***UPDATE***

As some of you may know, I had a thread of mine stickied a while ago about how I built my CO2 chamber. Well just for fun, I thought I'd show you guys where I'm at right now. As my rat production increased, so did my demand for CO2. I found myself having to drive a fair ways to get my CO2 every few weeks, and alot of the time my supplier's fill station was "out of order" aka too lazy to go get the full tank from the warehouse. So I went to my local farm store (TSC), and got a 20lb CO2/Argon tank used for welding. I had to buy a regulator for argon, and an adapter to be put on the regulator to allow me to attach it to the CO2 tank. I then attached a 1/4" (inside diameter) piece of vinyl tubing to the barb on the regular and run it into a trash can. If you use a trash can make sure you have a thin layer of bedding (I use pine) on the bottle to catch all the mess.

Regulator - $50
Argon-CO2 Adapter - $10
CO2 Tank (empty) - $255
Cost to fill tank - $35
Total: $350

Yes I know, very pricey, however, at any time I can return the tank to the store for a full refund. The $255 is really just a deposit of sorts, but they charge so much so you CAN keep the tank if you want to.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/IMG_0006.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/IMG_0009.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/IMG_0013.jpg

And there you have it! Thanks for looking!

This is an interesting setup...but I have a question. How are you recapturing or venting the excess CO2? A 55gal trash can is a lot of CO2 to simply let loose in your house...you run the risk of yourself or other animals being affected. Keep in mind that CO2 is heavier than air so it won't quickly float away.

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

This is an interesting setup...but I have a question. How are you recapturing or venting the excess CO2? A 55gal trash can is a lot of CO2 to simply let loose in your house...you run the risk of yourself or other animals being affected. Keep in mind that CO2 is heavier than air so it won't quickly float away.

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I just turn it on long enough to get enough to cover the rodents in the bottom. I don't fill the trash can. Afterwards the rodents are removed and the shavings discarded. It hasn't killed me yet.

I just use a Brick.
Cost $0.50

HAHA... a brick..

That's terrible but funny at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Constrictor

I just use a Brick.
Cost $0.50

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Thats why this is called humane.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Constrictor

I just use a Brick.
Cost $0.50

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Are you serious?

I don't mind killing mice but it freaks me out when there heads are missing/smashed and they're still twitching. *twitch*

Plus it's messy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Constrictor

I just use a Brick.
Cost $0.50

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overkill:colbert:. Its comments like this that Peta and other organizations love seeing.

a brick thats so wrong! surly your not serious.

Sorry all. My comment was just ment to be a joke. I buy my rats frozen.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Constrictor

Sorry all. My comment was just ment to be a joke. I buy my rats frozen.

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Good to know.

I drown mine and I don't care what those peta people have to say about it.

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Originally Posted by southb

I drown mine and I don't care what those peta people have to say about it.

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how do you drown them?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Thats why this is called humane.

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putting anything out of its misery quick is HUMANE , wether it be C02 , brick , anything

That is very cool. Very expensive though. I'd rather make a house payment with that. lol :rolleyes:

As for the brick comment, there is reasoning behind this. It is much cheaper to simply hit the mouse on the head. It IS humane if done correctly and the mouse feels nothing. I raise chickens (pets/show only) and some chicks are born with problems and we use this method to humanely end their lives.

When ever I get enough rats to gas I just use some dry Ice and a cooler.It is the same method but only costs a few buck for each round.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Williams

As some of you may know, I had a thread of mine stickied a while ago about how I built my CO2 chamber. Well just for fun, I thought I'd show you guys where I'm at right now. As my rat production increased, so did my demand for CO2. I found myself having to drive a fair ways to get my CO2 every few weeks, and alot of the time my supplier's fill station was "out of order" aka too lazy to go get the full tank from the warehouse. So I went to my local farm store (TSC), and got a 20lb CO2/Argon tank used for welding. I had to buy a regulator for argon, and an adapter to be put on the regulator to allow me to attach it to the CO2 tank. I then attached a 1/4" (inside diameter) piece of vinyl tubing to the barb on the regular and run it into a trash can. If you use a trash can make sure you have a thin layer of bedding (I use pine) on the bottle to catch all the mess.

Regulator - $50
Argon-CO2 Adapter - $10
CO2 Tank (empty) - $255
Cost to fill tank - $35
Total: $350

Yes I know, very pricey, however, at any time I can return the tank to the store for a full refund. The $255 is really just a deposit of sorts, but they charge so much so you CAN keep the tank if you want to.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/IMG_0006.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/IMG_0009.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/IMG_0013.jpg

And there you have it! Thanks for looking!

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wooooooooow are you really trying to put you mice/rats/etc in to comma. I'm a welder by trade and ill till you this argon is not a gas to be playing around with it can really put you to sleep-comma not joking. there have been cases where people never woke back up. Argon wont kill you it just makes you in to a vegetable

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Originally Posted by TheVipersHouse

putting anything out of its misery quick is HUMANE , wether it be C02 , brick , anything

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I don't know why your mice are in misery.

But mine sure aren't.. and I prefer to respectfully and cleanly kill them.

shoot i have a my rig outside how about we crank up the torch and make rat chops and mice ribs sounds yummmy


j/k

"if i offeneded you sorrry im just playin"

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Originally Posted by dmaricle

how do you drown them?

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Put them in a small container and flood it with water. You have to remember that these things killed 1/3 of the human population at one time......so I have no regret killing them with whatever means I can use at the time....including snapping necks etc.

Reopened.

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Originally Posted by southb

Put them in a small container and flood it with water. You have to remember that these things killed 1/3 of the human population at one time......so I have no regret killing them with whatever means I can use at the time....including snapping necks etc.

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Good lord what's a rat ever done to you? I'd hate to have to list all the things (quite a few of them man made) that have wiped out large numbers of the human population over our history on this little green planet. :rolleyes:

As far as feeder rodents go and the euthanizing of live prey, my thoughts have always been the same. The respect I show the rodents I raise for feeders for my snakes is an extension of responsible snakekeeping. I'm very aware, as are most of us, that without that prey animal we would have nothing more than tubs of very dead snakes.

You don't have to like rodents, but I think that refusing to do what you can to euthanize humanely shows a distinct lack of respect to a creature that is the only food source that sustains the life of your precious snakes. There is information up the ying yang on this site and all over the web about how to easily and humanely euthanize a feeder rodent. I cannot for the life of me think why someone would choose a method that would be considered by any labratory or even rational layperson as cruel and unnecessarily inhumane.

How can you say that drowning isn't humane? Snapping the neck is pretty fast, plus I raise my own and they are feed well and kept clean. I show them respect. The way I look at it is like feeding live to your snake. If their death takes longer than them being killed by a snake I don't do it. Just my .02$ and my method. I do like the dry ice method though and did at one time us that but I can't find it locally anymore.

You can say that drowning a rodent is humane? While it swimming madly to try and find whatever air pocket is left in container rapidly filling with water. Rats are very good swimmers so it makes sense that they will struggle to swim until they can no longer do so. Sorry but that does not sound humane or quick.

Yup takes about 15-20 seconds which is how long the dry ice took.

but with dry ice/co2 i imagine their calmly put to sleep (dont know how the dry ice method is worked)...not trying to frantically survive until they gotta breath in that water....kinda sad to think of even though i dont really like rats. id prefer just to let my snake do it the proper way and stand by with a metal object just in case they grab the mouse wrong and it tries to bite, like one tried to do to my litle het pied...luckily my nail filer was right next to me! keeping it as "natural" as possible...

Well I'm sure they suffer less my way than being constricted and having every major vein burst along with almost poping their eyes out. I see no difference, but on a side note, I don't do that to rabbits or other feed animals. Just mice and rats.

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Originally Posted by southb

Put them in a small container and flood it with water. You have to remember that these things killed 1/3 of the human population at one time......so I have no regret killing them with whatever means I can use at the time....including snapping necks etc.

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Have YOU ever drowned?

I am seriously appalled, disgusted and down right pissed that you drown your rats. If I really knew where you lived, I would have authorities to your house to take every single rat away from those sorts of conditions.

This is NOT the way to treat any animal. I am ashamed you are a part of this community.

Feeders or not, that is incredibly cruel. :mad:

Have you ever drown? Neither one of us can say which is better. Ever hit an animal with your car? Did you get out and shot it afterwards? You'd be amazed if I told you how long an animal can live before it dies. The mice die pretty darn fast. On the other hand I nursed a racoon to health after it was hit by a car and left for dead. I'm not saying it right or wrong, thats just how I do it.

Well I'm sorry to say it but I also feel that your choice to drown a living creature to use as a feeder item is inhumane and not something I hope others on this site choose to do. With so many other options available, I'm appalled you've chosen this method.

As far as comparing your choices to what a snake does naturally, that's just a pointless thing. The snake and their prey are acting on instinct and doing what nature intended them to do. You are making what I consider poor choices with a brain able to understand cause and effect and to make informed and responsible decisions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by southb

Have you ever drown? Neither one of us can say which is better. Ever hit an animal with your car? Did you get out and shot it afterwards? You'd be amazed if I told you how long an animal can live before it dies. The mice die pretty darn fast. On the other hand I nursed a racoon to health after it was hit by a car and left for dead. I'm not saying it right or wrong, thats just how I do it.

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Yes, I have almost drown when I was young. Water in the lungs is an incredibly painful experience while you try to fight for your life. It is something I hope never to experience again, or inflict on anyone else.

Waterboarding is inhumane because it makes the brain think it's drowning, do you honestly think that actual drowning is any better to experience?

I can honestly say falling asleep is far better and more humane. Feeding live is nature taking it's course.

I don't hit animals with my car to feed my other animals. That is an accident, not an explicit choice.

There is a set of euthanasia guidelines set up by the ARAV. I suggest you read it and talk with Veterinary medical professionals about the ethics of drowning a living animal on purpose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by southb

Have you ever drown? Neither one of us can say which is better. Ever hit an animal with your car? Did you get out and shot it afterwards? You'd be amazed if I told you how long an animal can live before it dies. The mice die pretty darn fast. On the other hand I nursed a racoon to health after it was hit by a car and left for dead. I'm not saying it right or wrong, thats just how I do it.

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i almost drowned!! crazy grandpa didnt know i couldnt swim...im sure lots of us have those kinds of experiences, and im 21 now and i was 10 then, and it scared me enough that i still remember every vivid detail. but im not a rat...but if i was, i wouldnt wanna drown..or be eaten, or gassed i guess either....

Alright think about all the people killed by the black plague every time you feed your snake. Your doing the world a huge favor. The only reason they are still on this planet is to feed other animals. I really don't care what you think or what peta thinks. That's the joy of being an American, I can tell you I don't care and get back to drinking my beer and shooting guns and rescuing people from burning buildings for a living. I've got more important things on my mind than making sure I don't hurt a rats feelings, I have to think about what my family would do if I don't come back from work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by southb

Alright think about all the people killed by the black plague every time you feed your snake. Your doing the world a huge favor. The only reason they are still on this planet is to feed other animals. I really don't care what you think or what peta thinks. That's the joy of being an American, I can tell you I don't care and get back to drinking my beer and shooting guns and rescuing people from burning buildings for a living. I've got more important things on my mind than making sure I don't hurt a rats feelings, I have to think about what my family would do if I don't come back from work.

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Let us look at facts...

Fault:
Yes, there are many people that were killed by the plague and other things. Now the plague was carried by the rat not caused by the rat. The fleas/ticks are the ones that passed the plague onto the humans.
Go drown the fleas and ticks!

Intentional:
I am sure the rodents didn't do it intentionally either. However, we are intentionally raising and killing rodents to allow us to enjoy our reptiles at home. We should at least minimize the way the rodent is taken out.

Cures to cancer, diseases and "lab rat" studies:
The rodent has been used to help us understand genetics, find cures, help understand how our body works and more. All this at our expense. Imagine how many human lives they have saved!

My truth:
I am guilty of whacking a rat or mouse more than once to try to kill it "humanely". I am also guilty of trying to suffocate and drown them as well. But this was due to my learning curve when I was younger. There wasn't internet or published experience back then. And I did not intentionally want to cause trauma and suffering before it goes. I was just trying to figure out the quickest way to put the rodent down. Years later I too "gas" my rodents that need to be put down for feeding. This is the quickest, most effective and efficient way to kill a rodent humanely. This is also how labs do it.
Currently, there is information out there that can easily be accessed on how to do this. There shouldn't be a reason to drown a rodent. And there are cheap ways to do it to. My method only costs about $10 and lasts me about a month or more.

Don't get us wrong, we salute you for saving lives. I too have done my share of securing our country and your right to have your beer and so forth. However, this doesn't mean we should allow ourselves to be ignorant knowing we can do better and "be" that model reptile owner, enthusiast ...

Let's lead by example.:salute:

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Originally Posted by southb

Alright think about all the people killed by the black plague every time you feed your snake. Your doing the world a huge favor. The only reason they are still on this planet is to feed other animals. I really don't care what you think or what peta thinks. That's the joy of being an American, I can tell you I don't care and get back to drinking my beer and shooting guns and rescuing people from burning buildings for a living. I've got more important things on my mind than making sure I don't hurt a rats feelings, I have to think about what my family would do if I don't come back from work.

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I think you have a responsibility along with the rest of us to follow the law. I really don't give a crap if you are a fireman. Both of my parents are city police officers, and they are also expected to follow the law. They don't get to skate or have blame let go because they work in a dangerous environment everyday. (Nice way trying to pull that hero crap, it don't fly)

Yes, it is against the law to kill the rats in the manner you are. Drowning is not approved by the ARAV. By the way they are not PETA, they are veterinarians that have meetings to discuss approved methods of humane euthanasia. Cervical dislocation and killing with a pin to the head is considered more humane than what you do every week.

Drowning is a barbaric and completely inhumane way to kill an animal, whether feeder rat or cute fuzzy puppy or panda cub. If you drop a box of kittens off a bridge into a river, you will be arrested. Same applies in this situation. (And yes, people do try to kill kittens this way everyday in the city I grew up in.)

It is still animal cruelty and against the law, whether you acknowledge it, or continue to refuse to see it for what it is, I know that it will someday come back to bite you in the ass.

I'm sorry but I have to throw my two cents into this.

As reptile keepers we already walk a fine line of public acceptance. We fight a hard fight to keep our pets and the non educated public appeased. This fight has been carried out for many many years now by people that are far more invested in this market than me, not mention they have a great degree of experience than I could hope to gain.

Feeding rodents to our pets is a way of life. IT SUCKS!!!
Whether you feed live or P/K it sucks!

However your reasoning behind your lack of remorse for your chosen form of euthanasia is at best weak! The Black Plague my ass. Nazis killed 60 million people lets drowned all the Germans. Catholics killed millions of Protestants Lets drown all of them.

You mentioned that you have to worry about coming home safe to your family.

How would that play out if people found out that your drowning animals by the dozens in your home. What would happen, Job loss, fine, jail time, kids get to see daddy in a nice orange jumper, all your snakes taken away, no more family dog or cat?

You would become the poster boy for the ban reptiles movement.

I can see the headline now.

City employee arrested today after it was reported that he was drowning rats in his home to feed his pet pythons.
City officials say that this type of behavior is unexceptionable and appalling. The man was fired from the _____________ city fire department and is currently awaiting trial

if your going to Prekill the rats do it right and stop half assing it.

AVMA Guidelines on Euthanasia

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_we...euthanasia.pdf

"Drowning is not a means of euthanasia and is inhumane."
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Species: Rodents and other small mammals

Acceptable: Barbiturates, inhalant anesthetics, CO2, CO, potassium chloride in conjunction with general anesthesia, microwave irradiation

Conditionally acceptable: Methoxyflurane, ether, N2, Ar, cervical dislocation (rats < 200 g), decapitation
____________________________________

Species: Reptiles

Acceptable: Barbiturates, inhalant anesthetics (in appropriate species), CO2 (in appropriate species)

Conditionally acceptable: Penetrating captive bolt, gunshot, decapitation and pithing, stunning and decapitation

"Rapid freezing as a sole means of euthanasia is not considered to be humane. If used, animals should be anesthetized prior to freezing."

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

There is a set of euthanasia guidelines set up by the ARAV.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Drowning is not approved by the ARAV.

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I just wanted to correct myself, I keep typing ARAV, when I did mean AVMA as in American Veterinary Medical Association.

Don't know where ARAV came from.... Call it the heat of the moment. :oops:

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Originally Posted by southb

I've got more important things on my mind than making sure I don't hurt a rats feelings, I have to think about what my family would do if I don't come back from work.

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Look I was a dispatcher in fire/police for years so please do NOT disrespect your brothers by using the job as an excuse to be inhumane to animals - that's not going to play with me one bit. Of everything you said here, that one bugs me the very most. :mad:

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Originally Posted by zombie&lemons

wooooooooow are you really trying to put you mice/rats/etc in to comma. I'm a welder by trade and ill till you this argon is not a gas to be playing around with it can really put you to sleep-comma not joking. there have been cases where people never woke back up. Argon wont kill you it just makes you in to a vegetable

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Obviously you guys have destroyed my thread, by to this guy, did you even read the post? Yes, there is an ARGON/CO2 regulator used, and in this case, it is being used for CARBON DIOXIDE, aka CO2. So ya sure argon may be damaging or whatever, but there is none in use here.

My vet suggested a inhumane way of taking the fight of the rats for my 5 foot RTB and I just shook my head in disgust and went with frozen. We now have a different vet.

There are two species of rats involved here. Rattus Rattus is the rat that carried the infected fleas during the plauges of Europe. Rattus Norvegicus is not believed to have arrived on the European mainland till near the beginning of the 18th century. There is also a school of thought that R. Norvegicus's aggression toward R. Rattus and subsequant overtaking of much of their territory may actually have helped end the last epidemic. The domestic rats you are torturing are Rattus Norvegicus, they were not responsible for the deaths you feel you need to avenge.

This is the only herp board I belong to because at least some members realize that feeder animals are living creatures that deserve to be treated with respect. I very much hope SouthB's opinions are not shared by the majority of this board. I'm going to go hug my pet rats now.

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Originally Posted by cobweb2000

This is the only herp board I belong to because at least some members realize that feeder animals are living creatures that deserve to be treated with respect. I very much hope SouthB's opinions are not shared by the majority of this board. I'm going to go hug my pet rats now.

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I would say the majority of us that raise rodents get that they need to be treated with dignity and respect, and we also understand that negative rep that casts over our community when people do engage in glib and inhumane treatment of their feeders.

If nothing else, understanding the complexities of rodents (psychological and was as physical) means you get better production (which as keepers is a very good thing0, and I think the more attuned and educated a person is, the more respect they have, therefor the less reckless they are with them.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by cobweb2000

This is the only herp board I belong to because at least some members realize that feeder animals are living creatures that deserve to be treated with respect. I very much hope SouthB's opinions are not shared by the majority of this board.

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I also hope that the members here realize that euthanizing a snake by putting it in the freezer is cruel and inhumane, according to the AVMA.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Constrictor

I just use a Brick.
Cost $0.50

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Sweet :D

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

I also hope that the members here realize that euthanizing a snake by putting it in the freezer is cruel and inhumane, according to the AVMA.

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And that method is used rountinely by large snake breeding establishments.

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Originally Posted by johnnj

Species: Rodents and other small mammals

Acceptable: Barbiturates, inhalant anesthetics, CO2, CO, potassium chloride in conjunction with general anesthesia, microwave irradiation

Conditionally acceptable: Methoxyflurane, ether, N2, Ar, cervical dislocation (rats < 200 g), decapitation

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So, if these are the only methods of humainly putting down a rat, which of the "acceptable" methods do you use? Even the descriptions of the "conditionally acceptable" in the AVMA guidelines are difficult to carry out. For example, read how to do a cervical dislocation . . . I couldn't do it that way.

What I don't see in this list is the "swing them against the wall method" mentioned over the years as generally accepted as humane.

For me, drowning is not an acceptable method, but, if we were to only follow the AVMA guidelines, many other methods would also not be acceptable . . .

BTW, OP, I think your feeder euthanizer is top notch! Congrats.

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Originally Posted by Alice

What I don't see in this list is the "swing them against the wall method" mentioned over the years as generally accepted as humane.

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From the AVMA Guidelines:

Blow to the head - Unacceptable for most species.

Stunning - Stunning may render an animal unconscious, but it is not a method of euthanasia (except for neonatal animals with thin craniums). If used, it must be immediately followed by a method that ensures death.

On a side note seeing as decapitation is a conditionally accepted form of Euthanasia would a mini guillotine be acceptable?

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

From the AVMA Guidelines:

Blow to the head - Unacceptable for most species.

Stunning - Stunning may render an animal unconscious, but it is not a method of euthanasia (except for neonatal animals with thin craniums). If used, it must be immediately followed by a method that ensures death.

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EUTHANASIA BY A BLOW TO THE HEAD
Euthanasia by a blow to the head must be evaluated
in terms of the anatomic features of the species on
which it is to be performed. A blow to the head can be
a humane method of euthanasia for neonatal animals
with thin craniums, such as young pigs, if a single sharp
blow delivered to the central skull bones with sufficient
force can produce immediate depression of the central
nervous system and destruction of brain tissue. When
properly performed, loss of consciousness is rapid.
The anatomic features of neonatal calves, however,
make a blow to the head in this species unacceptable.
Personnel performing euthanasia by use of a blow to the
head must be properly trained and monitored for
proficiency with this method of euthanasia, and they
must be aware of its aesthetic implications.

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Originally Posted by eulenspiegel

On a side note seeing as decapitation is a conditionally accepted form of Euthanasia would a mini guillotine be acceptable?

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lol

For me personally, to know that folks out there are trying to kill rats older than young pups by whacking the animal's head against a hard surface makes me cringe. I simply cannot believe that 100% of the time, every time across the board, it causes instant death without any problems.

I have always read the blow to the head is to be done with neonates, where a blow to the head crushes it completely and instantly because it is very soft. I actually think crushing the head on a neonate is quicker than freezing or CO2.

I really hate to read when people try to do it with rats larger than pups, where the bones are harder, the animals are bigger, and the margin of error is increased.

Cervical dislocation is perfectly acceptable by a highly trained supervised person, and only on rats under a certain age/weight. Many guidlines say <200 grams, but 200 grams is almost an adult rat in many cases, and jerking on their body like that can easily lead to broken legs and tails rather than proper cervical dislocation.