Warning!!! Do not read if you are queasy!!!

OK I had a problem Similar to this a few months ago.

This time it happened to a whole tub.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81559 This is the thread that I am talking about.

About 3 days ago I see a dead hopper in one of my grow out tubs. They had cannibalized it, which to me was not really that big of a deal since it was just one and these little guys can be kinda nuts. I clean the tub up and go on about my business.

Fast forward to yesterday morning. I go and check on my ASF's like I always do first thing in the morning. There are 8 little "husks" in the tub no meat no bones just skin and some blood. There is a small group eating another one and two more uneaten dead ones. So I clean the rest of my tubs first because Sunday is tub cleaning day, and I do not want to cross contaminate any more then I already have.

Now for the similarity, These little guys were stumbling around looking kinda drunk, their eyes were swollen shut, and they were very unresponsive. They were all between 4-8 weeks of age, the first one was older not sure of the age from the size and looks it was around the age of 6-9 months. They were all doing very well before. I originally had 45 hoppers in one tub but I separated them out after a few days because I made more room in another tub. So it was down to about 25 in that tub and 20 in the other tub.

There are ZERO problems in the new tub every one is great. Before you ask these are 100% unrelated to the first line that I got. I do not know where it could be coming from the only thing I can think of is that i have the male from my original breeder group. If maybe he has something but it is showing up in lines unrelated to him. There is no one in the house that does anything with the ASF's except me, so I know all of the husbandry on them.

I don't know if you guys have any ideas but I more curious to see if any one else has ever had the same thing happen to them.

Mike

The eating of all the dead bodies sounds like it might be a food problem. To eat all of them? Is nothing else around for them to eat, or if they don't like what's being fed to them?

If some are stumbling around looking drunk, that to me sounds like there is an illness going around, or something contaminated that they've been around or eaten.

I would clean your food hoppers and water bottles with bleach. What are you feeding them? Any chance it could be contaminated with anything?

They are a smaller animal, so it would take less of whatever to affect them.

Any seeds? Perhaps they are the culprit?

Any wild mice or rats in the area that could pass along an illness? If they are able to get access to the food or over the cages, waste could contaminate the ASF's.

Just throwing around ideas....

Just adding a thought here. The number one cause for cannibalization in rodents is dehydration. Make sure your water system is easily allowing water to flow.

If you run out of food & water it happens,but losing a hopper here & there it happens & they do eat parts of them.I have around 400 + or -,with that many it happens & i take great care of them,just culled my males & only have two groups with males in & 1 prego nursing tub w/o male,the rest are growing out because I have way too many & can't get rid of them:mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

The eating of all the dead bodies sounds like it might be a food problem. To eat all of them? Is nothing else around for them to eat, or if they don't like what's being fed to them?

If some are stumbling around looking drunk, that to me sounds like there is an illness going around, or something contaminated that they've been around or eaten.

I would clean your food hoppers and water bottles with bleach. What are you feeding them? Any chance it could be contaminated with anything?

They are a smaller animal, so it would take less of whatever to affect them.

Any seeds? Perhaps they are the culprit?

Any wild mice or rats in the area that could pass along an illness? If they are able to get access to the food or over the cages, waste could contaminate the ASF's.

Just throwing around ideas....

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They are feed Mezuri 6F. They always have more than enough to eat.

I separated out the two tubs a couple of weeks ago. The first tub went haywire they second tub is doing great!!!!

It is very rare for them to run out of water (i.e. if they stop up the ball so the water runs out). I check them at least twice a day once in the morning and once in the evening.

The food and water is inside my house and I have not noticed any mice or rat feces in the room, and EVERY other ASF I have is doing well.

I do not know if any one else has had whole tub cannabalize but I was thinking the odd behavior may be from eating the other ASF. They normally do not over eat but these guys were fighting over who gets to eat the others. It was quite lord of the flies!!!! I was watching them drink water and their tongues were red from the blood and junk. Not normal red tongue. I want to convey what i saw but I do not want to be to graphic (yes it gets worse).

I really have no clue what could be causing this. I really just wanted to share and see if any one had any answers...

I am lost...

Mike

Is there a larger animal in the tub that could possibly be killing them? Any wheels?

My whacked out mind just keeps shooting back to an ASF cult.

Now that my delerium is over...no, an ASF cult is really all that I can think of.

Sorry :(

Sounds like they have the dreaded "T" virus of Resident Evil fame......you know what you have to do.....

I have heard that a pest control device,( like the kind that plug into the wall), can possibly make the rodent world go nuts! Maybe you could check and see if any of your neighbors may have just plugged one in. If they have, it's worth looking into. The owner of the pet store in my town said that the motel behind him plugged one in, and all his rodents went nuts!! Just a thought.

Don't get bit you'll catch it!!!! I would try to up the protine and see if that helps. I once had hamsters and the mom ate a few and left the legs in the nest and the babies were eating them!! To say the least I lost intrest in hamsters as a pet lol!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Is there a larger animal in the tub that could possibly be killing them? Any wheels?

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All of them were the same size. I took care to not put any one in that was too big or too small

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BOBO--73

I have heard that a pest control device,( like the kind that plug into the wall), can possibly make the rodent world go nuts! Maybe you could check and see if any of your neighbors may have just plugged one in. If they have, it's worth looking into. The owner of the pet store in my town said that the motel behind him plugged one in, and all his rodents went nuts!! Just a thought.

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I live in the country no neighbors... I love it.

But I would NEVER have thought of that!

Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rebeccabecca

Don't get bit you'll catch it!!!! I would try to up the protine and see if that helps. I once had hamsters and the mom ate a few and left the legs in the nest and the babies were eating them!! To say the least I lost intrest in hamsters as a pet lol!

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I am researching some more food options for them. I am about to make a thread with links to the nutritional info on what I am looking at.

Mike

The only thing I can think of is a fight broke out and they were already stressed and it kinda turned into a mob.

Mike

Can they see the TV? They might be getting wierd ideas from Halo 3 or whatever it is you're playing over there! :D

Okay, you can tell, I'm really flabbergasted by this incident... I have had 1 ASF die on me when I was on vacation, but the others never ate her, instead, they buried her inches deep in substrate. I didn't believe it when Mitch was saying he gets cannibal ASFs. But, I guess it really does happen...

Could it be the water has too much chemicals? Just throwing any wild guesses out there...

Mike, recently I've been struggling with a similar situation in one of my breeder groups. I think it stems from two factors. That group is getting a tad too inbred as I'm having problems finding new ASF lines locally to me. They have started to produce less than perfect young and I believe that's where the problem started. As litters were born the adults started culling out the weaklings and there were more of them than would be expected. The other growing ASF's in the enclosure I think began to micmic the adults and consider their littermates as just another food source (even though dry food and water is available to them).

When I pull weanlings from this particular colony I notice that in the feeder/grow out enclosures, they have a far higher rate of killing off their sibs. I'm going to just feed off this entire colony. I think I have a cycle here that isn't going to end and it's both gross and a total waste of my time and space to continue with a colony that does this.

That sucks Jo, if you were any closer, or meet sometime at a Taylor show, I'd give ya a bunch of ASF.

connie are you going to be going to the swartz creek show in april.