is this normal? HELP

I'm a new owner, and have made some mistakes, but i think everything is ok now.
I have my baby ball python in a 20 gallon tank with 2 identical hides, and LOTS of clutter to make her secure. Temps. are 90-93 on hot, 81-84 on the cool. Hum. is about a constant 54% and ambient is always around 76.

I have had her now for about a month and a half, and I'm a little worried. i thought she was doing fine, so after 2 weeks i started holding her for short times everyday to every other day, and she LOVED IT. then when feeding days came, i couldn't get her to eat. In the past month she's eaten 2 SMALL fuzzy mice total. So i stopped handling her, hoping it she would eat, and didn't. Now, for the past week i am finding her cramming herself in small and odd places.

poo twice (second time yesterday)
pee once.

I'm afraid I'm doing SOMETHING wrong, and she's trying to tell me "HELLO, YOU'RE KILLING ME!!!!!"
maybe I'm just paranoid?

let me know, your help and opinion is NEEDED.

by the way: we also got a spider male with my pastel, he's a month older, a bit smaller and HAMMERING DOWN rat pups every 5 days!

are you keeping them together in the same tank?

hiding in odd tight places means that your hides are too big, or not secure enough. Please provide pictures.

Mike is right, she is stressed out. Tighter hides, more clutter, cover the back and sides of the tank, maybe even changing to a smaller enclosure will help. Pics will help.

Ditto that. It's generally a good idea to stop handling until you get them to eat weekly consistently.

How do you offer food, in our out of the tank, prescent?
Your husbandry sounds spot on, like Fatboy and Mike said, I would see if the hides are too big for her to feel comfortable.

I agree totally with all 3 of the above posts. they are al good reasons why she may be doing this. take them in to high consideration :)

Good question and helpful answers, thanks.

I hope your not keeping the two snakes together..

You could try downsizing the tank size to make him feel more secure. Putting him in a small 15q tub or putting him in a 10 gallon tank might help.

Try covering 3/4 sides of the tank with dark paper of sorts to make it more secure. :]

Pictures of your setup would be super helpful!

thanks everyone. I will get pictures up soon. i covered 3/4 of the tank.

NO they are not together.

i've tried f/t mice, freshly killed mice, let them just run around, "zombie" danced them...a little of everything. i do prescent

also, she looks like she wants the mice SOOOOO bad, but they go right up to her, the snake and mouse literally snuggle and touch noses for a minute, and she doesn't strike. then she looks like she wants to eat it, and then the same thing happens.
pictures will come

I do not handle any snakes till they have had 4 successful feeds.

I know I am neurotic that way. :rolleyes:

Agreed a pic would help, but it sounds like your husbandry is on track and you seem to know what it is the snake needs.

I would put the snake down completely until it feeds.

If I missed it, then I apologize, but is the snake in a quiet area of the home, with a natural day and night light cycle?

If a snake gets a bad start, sometimes it does take a bit for them to get back on track. Skipping a week between feed attempts is not a bad thing.

If I have a hesitant feeder, and I have made changes to the environment, I give them two weeks till I offer food.

Let the snake acclimate, feel secure, and build up hunger.

Bruce

thanks.

Yeah, it's quiet, calm. (occasional vacuum) I'm basically the only one who goes in/out of the room, but it's actually in a small room (a little bigger then a closet) and there's a window, so day/night are distinguishable.

i put in one more smaller hide in the middle of the tank, so she doesn't have to choose which temp. and she went right in it. i haven't touched her, but she actually moved hides, so she's ALIVE...

Sunday night is her feeding, she hasn't eaten for ALMOST 2 weeks, should i try it? something tiny? ...or nothing?

Do try feeding her, and continue to offer her food on a regular schedule. She'll come around sooner or later.

i guess i just have one more question ...ok, two! (FOR NOW) regarding feeding, and opinions on how others do it.

.......if the snake is not active, even after presenting, what now?



......she will not "go after" the mouse, and with all my clutter for comfort, the mouse has MANY escape hiding places, they almost are the the batmen of mice. what now?


thanks for your support...i hope she eats :please::weirdface:tears:

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Originally Posted by spalding11

i guess i just have one more question ...ok, two! (FOR NOW) regarding feeding, and opinions on how others do it.

.......if the snake is not active, even after presenting, what now?



......she will not "go after" the mouse, and with all my clutter for comfort, the mouse has MANY escape hiding places, they almost are the the batmen of mice. what now?


thanks for your support...i hope she eats :please::weirdface:tears:

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If the snake isn't active after presenting, I can't imagine she'll be eating that day. Throwing the mouse in there after she's shown no interest could cause stress...especially if the mouse runs into her hide.

If she won't chase it down, and the mouse is running into a hiding place, you can try using tongs. Grasp the mouse by the nape of the neck and offer it to your BP that way. I wouldn't do it by the tail though. Causes a lot of stress on the mouse, and you don't want a pissed off mouse with it's business end pointing at your snake. I know it's only a mouse, but they can draw blood.

I've tried the nape of the neck thing w/ long feeding tongs, but she does the same smell, and look, and do nothing more...

i appreciate your guys help, my camera is charged, so I'm gonna go take pictures of the tank and post 'em.

thanks all!

about how old is the bp ( size and weight wise ) I know some of the older ( over a years old will go off feed during breeding time 0 but if this s a young bp, were you get it,show local shop, or a private breeder. I read about how some of the shadey breeder will sell snakes that not even eating yet at some shows.

I see it had 2 meals of fuzy mice so i taking it a smalller snake.. I also watch for signs of shedding the blueing (dulling ) of the skin and in some cases pinking of the belly it totally possible she getting ready for a shed cycle and it just taking a long time.

I also try offering the food item late in the day/evening . I got one snake that won't eat until after full dark if you put food in during the day will just ingore it but if you drop the food in after dark watch out the inhale the meal.. if you got a scale for weighting I keep track of her weight, and not panick until you see about 20% lost of weight .. ( if it about 60 grams don't worry until get below 40 grams.) I would after that point consult either a vet or an experience breeder . for possible forcing ( after a vet checked for parasites ) this not something to take lightly as the force feeding is stressful for both parties. It something i had to do to a hatchling but I waited until it lost about 1/2 it weight before hand(not eating, I hated spending 30 mintues to get a single small mouse ( pinkie rat) into ir gut) and it now a slammer of rodents ..

Just on a side note...

I've had no response with pre-scenting but the snakes still destroyed the feeder item...

she is a late october '08 pastel baby weighing about 3 weeks after i got her, and one fuzzy mouse full 160 grams. i haven't weighed her recently because i'm not touching her...

she doesn't look extremely skinny yet.

she had a perfect shed in the bag that she was shipped in, so her last shed was about a month and a half ago, she still has the eye caps from tht shed because i read that they'll come off on their own, and i don't wanna stress her out more, you know?
but i haven't noticed any signs of shedding..

i got her from a private breeder, well-known and loved (8 ball) so it DEFINENTLY wasn't a breeder issue...

Did you try different kinds of mice?? I've read they can be picky. Different colors vs white, female vs male. Maybe she's ready for an upgrade to a hopper. I tried pinkies for two weeks before i figured out my snake wasn't eating because she preferred fuzzies. lol. For the first time my snake wouldn't eat if i was standing right there. I had to duck around a corner. She's more used to me being around now. I also read some people feed their hatchlings straight off of hoppers. It's worth a try. Good luck!!

I would get him out of that tank if I were you. My one pasyel displayed fairly odd behavior when I had her in an aquaium. Taking food items sometimes, and sometimes not. Hiding outside her hides, stuff like that. I also used a heat lamp, not UTH's. I'm not sure if you use UTH's or not, but I highly suggest using them. I would get a 15QT tub, maybe a 28QT sterilite tub, flexxwatt heat tape/heat pad, and a reptile themostat. As soon as I transfered mine over after about 1 week she was eating every week. Also make sure you get some kind of thermometer with a probe, accurite makes a 3in1(hygro,thermo,probe). I don't know if that IS deff the prob, but I know my snakes deff like the tub set up better. Take the "clutter" out too. Just offer two hides at most on the hot and cool side, and a water dish and all is well.

hey everyone, i just want you to know how much i appreciate your advice and opinions. THIS FORUM ROCKS!

my girl FINALLY ate last night!!!!
she ate like a CHAMP! not just one adult mouse, BUT TWO!!!!!!!!!!
she ate #1 in only a minute, and #2 in under 30 seconds! AND WAS LOOKING FOR MORE~!!!!

and she didn't just wait for them to come to her, she actually moved and hunted them, and squeezed them so hard their eyes popped out.

this made my week!


THANK YOU AGAIN, YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST!

That's great that she ate! Woohoo!

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Originally Posted by mechnut450

if you got a scale for weighting I keep track of her weight, and not panick until you see about 20% lost of weight .. ( if it about 60 grams don't worry until get below 40 grams.)

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Actually, if a 60 gram snake gets down below 40 grams, it has lost more than 33% of its weight, not just 20%. I'd definitely start to worry well before that. Probably more like when it has lost 15% of its weight. Also, this would vary somewhat depending on the size & age of the snake and other circumstances. For example, a rescue that is already thin should not lose any weight at all if possible.

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

Take the "clutter" out too.

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Actually "clutter" is a very good thing, depending on what is being used to make the clutter. BPs are shy snakes by nature. The reason for a snake not eating often has something to do with it not feeling secure. Adding "clutter" such as crumpled up newspaper or fake foliage often helps these snakes feel more secure because they can still be somewhat hidden even when not in their hides.

I hope you're not tired of the same ole advice by now. I think a few people said it already, but a 20 gal tank is too large for a baby bp. I was going to get that size for my baby too, but I read he/she can actually be stressed out if the enclosure is too large.

Two identical hides like you said are awwesome. They should be barely big enough for your snake to coil up in.

I'm not sure how much it helps, but I add a nutrient suppliment to the water bowl; give her some nutrients since she's being fiesty about eating.

Is it possible the food you're giving her is too small? Pinkie to fuzzy rats should do it; something as thick as the largest part of her body.

Anywho, good luck!

(opps didn't see that latest post. glad she ate!)