question on egg laying without male involvement.

I was just thinking about this and I don't ever remember seeing an answer to it. Have you ever gotten eggs from your ball pythons WITHOUT ever breeding them? I'm not talking about breeding and getting slugs, or about putting a male with them and just not witnessing any breeding behavior, I'm talking about getting a clutch of infertile eggs without ever even introducing a male.

I've had this happen several times to me with colubrids, even with colubrids that have NEVER been with a male since the day they hatched. But I can't think of a time that it's ever happened to me with ball pythons.

It's possible that it's never happened to me because I breed most of my adult girls every year at least once so it's no surprise when I get eggs, but the few that I hold back for that season for one reason or the other have never laid a surprise clutch of eggs for me and I was just wondering what everyone else's experiences were.

I have heard of female BPs retaining sperm for over a year and producing hatchlings.

Virgin females??? never heard of it.
Of course mine get nailed as soon as they are momma sized.:banana:

lol, when I first saw the title to this thread I thought there was going to be a birds and the bees talk.

Like you mentioned, I have heard of it happening with colubrids, but I haven't seen/heard it with pythons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

infertile eggs

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Yup

I have heard of it in BP's but it has never happened to me or anyone I know.

Mark when I first read your thred title I thought, "Thats funny my males never help females lay?" DUH!!!:rolleye2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

I have heard of it in BP's but it has never happened to me or anyone I know.

Mark when I first read your thred title I thought, "Thats funny my males never help females lay?" DUH!!!:rolleye2:

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Haha, yeah sorry about that. I guess I could have been a little clearer on the title... :D:D:D

i have herd of this with other animals. didn't know BP could to it.

I've seen a few threads on here that were possibly cases of... I'm too tired to remember or look up the word, but producing young without mating. Komodo dragons and a few other herps are known to be capable of it.

I don't believe in either case that it was absolutely certain, but it had certainly been a long time since any possible mating (more than 12 months I'm pretty sure).

That doesn't answer the question about laying infertile eggs though.

So for females the egg forming process isn't one that happens naturally without being bred? Like turtles for instances, most females will lay eggs even if they arent fertilized because it is a natural body process. Chickens are another one that lay without the need to be fertilized. Of course these eggs wont hatch into something. I wonder what causes some egg layers to produce the eggs as a regular thing and others only when they have been bred?

It's called parthenogenesis and yes, it's been documented in pythons.

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v9.../6800210a.html

The eggs are not necessarily infertile, they can be clones of mom.


~Kat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janeothejungle

It's called parthenogenesis and yes, it's been documented in pythons.

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v9.../6800210a.html

The eggs are not necessarily infertile, they can be clones of mom.


~Kat

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:O:O:O:O:confused::confused:

Cloning occurs in nature? That's INSANE!

To the OP: I knew exactly what you meant when I read the title and said to myself: "I've wondered that too! My duck used to lay eggs and she wasn't near any males since she was about a month old." I'm actually pretty suprised to get such a concrete answer.

Thanks Jane! Although my head came Thiiiiis close to exploding while reading that.

Too bad the policies of that European zoo wouldn't let them hatch any of those eggs.

I've heard novice pet keepers report eggs several times from females they claim where never with males. I've encouraged them to try incubating but have never heard a report back of any hatchlings.

As genetic testing becomes more available and cheaper perhaps we'll discover parthenogenesis in ball pythons.

python jesus.

Hi all - I just joined this site/forum to ask all you python owners about what to do when this very thing happens…and yes, it happens!

I have an old (24-ish) female ball python and I believe it was 3 years ago when I was surprised to find her hugging a clutch of eggs. I only had the snake for a year maybe, and was told she was a 'he' when I inherited her from another family member. She was never with another snake, and had about 7 eggs. Kinda freaked me out, actually. I didn't think in any way the eggs would be fertile or have any clone snakes, so I discarded them (I felt bad about that, too).

So now here we are again, 2014, a few years older and she is displaying all the same signs that she is about to do this again, and again without any other snake involvement. Once is strange, but twice? Come on… She's plump, has bulging around the vent, didn't eat the last rat that was fed (and took an hour to eat the last one in January), and she barely fits under her hide-out.

I don't really want to experiment here, but since this original post, has anyone else experienced this and did anyone attempt to incubate? Anything happen? I didn't know that these could be clones, I just assumed like chickens, they would just be eggs. I'll check back in couple days for any advice. thanks! :)

Surprise, Surprise, Surprise!! I can confirm that a ball python can indeed produce eggs without a male. I have just found 9 eggs in with my ball python and she has never been around a male ball python in the 24 years that I've had her and we got her when she was only a few months old. She did have a house mate for a about 8 years when she was younger but it was a Red Tail boia and he died 10 years ago. We did a flashlight look at the eggs and it appears 7 of the eggs do have veins running through them but we can't be sure the eggs are viable for a few weeks.

This actually did happen to me sometime after I first posted this question. I did have a virgin female lay eggs. She was only a couple of years old and I thought she was too small at the time so I had never put her with a male, she certainly showed me though. Unfortunatly though they were not fertile.

this thread is making the rounds:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...BP-laid-6-eggs!

aparently a virgin BP produced a clutch of eggs, and most of them candle as fertile, with veins. im sure the thread will be updated if something hatches.

EDIT: i would not throw away the eggs. just candle them. yellow glow = infertile, pink glow or visible veins = fertile.

Since I don't breed snakes and never expected eggs from parthenogenesis I have given them to someone I work with who breeds snakes. I will let you know if any of them hatch as I wouldn't mind have a clone of the mother. If there are a few I will try to get my daughter to take one with in to Veternary School in August for possilbe parthenogenesis testing.

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Originally Posted by Nravin65

Since I don't breed snakes and never expected eggs from parthenogenesis I have given them to someone I work with who breeds snakes. I will let you know if any of them hatch as I wouldn't mind have a clone of the mother. If there are a few I will try to get my daughter to take one with in to Veternary School in August for possilbe parthenogenesis testing.

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i think you need to test two snakes, the mother and one of the offspring, and compare their genetic code. but for that you just need a DNA sample, not the snake as a whole.

getting it tested / verified is a really great idea.

OK....My Pastel girl has just laid eggs today and has NEVER been with a male! I have had her since she was 2 months old and has never been mated. I haven't candled them yet since I just saw them about 15 minutes ago. This is freaking me out!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ROACH

OK....My Pastel girl has just laid eggs today and has NEVER been with a male! I have had her since she was 2 months old and has never been mated. I haven't candled them yet since I just saw them about 15 minutes ago. This is freaking me out!

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Sorry Im loosing my mind. I did pair her back in January - March! Sorry. I jumped to conclusion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janeothejungle

It's called parthenogenesis and yes, it's been documented in pythons.

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v9.../6800210a.html

The eggs are not necessarily infertile, they can be clones of mom.


~Kat

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i remember reading about this last year. I believe it was an unbred retic at a Zoo that laid a clutch of eggs

Edit: found the story http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/s...ies/?TID=SM_FB

Yea. For the life of me I could not remember breeding her. I went back in my records on the computer and realized I had. I would lose my mind if I didn't keep records.