New Setup..

Hello Guys and Girls,
I am getting ready to get a 55 gallon tank. I just wanted some help and Ideas. I know the humidity is prob going to be hard to keep up so I am going to put aluminum over half of the screen lid. I have a lot of peat moss from our Chinese Water Dragon setup.(is this alright to use as a substrate in your opinion). I have also seen some other setups with the Rock type backgrounds (what is that) is that the Styrofoam type backgrounds. Yes I have a UTH and Thermo's for cool and hot side. I have a heat lamp to help with heating the cool side to prop. temps. I use a 60 watt regular bulb for daytime. Then I use the moonlight 60 right now but prob go to 75 for bigger tank.. I have some plans to make two identical hides for hot and cool sides. I have fake plants, and some grapevine wood in my current tank, ( I want something bigger for him to move around in if he wants to. He is 4 foot long(about) I have not completely measured him. He is a problem eater(right now on a 3 month fast) going to try and feed today..Any other info of questions that you have on anything I have left out or whatever dont mind to ask. I know a lot of people do not like the idea of a 55 gallon, but it is what I want. So I want to figure it out....Thanks in advance for all the help and comments GOOD or BAD

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Originally Posted by Otto1208

Hello Guys and Girls,
I am getting ready to get a 55 gallon tank. I just wanted some help and Ideas. I know the humidity is prob going to be hard to keep up so I am going to put aluminum over half of the screen lid. I have a lot of peat moss from our Chinese Water Dragon setup.(is this alright to use as a substrate in your opinion). I have also seen some other setups with the Rock type backgrounds (what is that) is that the Styrofoam type backgrounds. Yes I have a UTH and Thermo's for cool and hot side. I have a heat lamp to help with heating the cool side to prop. temps. I use a 60 watt regular bulb for daytime. Then I use the moonlight 60 right now but prob go to 75 for bigger tank.. I have some plans to make two identical hides for hot and cool sides. I have fake plants, and some grapevine wood in my current tank, ( I want something bigger for him to move around in if he wants to. He is 4 foot long(about) I have not completely measured him. He is a problem eater(right now on a 3 month fast) going to try and feed today..Any other info of questions that you have on anything I have left out or whatever dont mind to ask. I know a lot of people do not like the idea of a 55 gallon, but it is what I want. So I want to figure it out....Thanks in advance for all the help and comments GOOD or BAD

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If he is not eating now, I would not recommend moving him to a larger enclosure.

What size enclosure is he in currently?
Temps?
Humidity?
How are you measuring temps & humidity?

I have him in a 20 L and I have two of the Zoo Med probe thremo's the one on the hot side is sitting on the glass under the substrate, and reading 92. The cool side is in the Air (reading the Ambient, ground temp) it stays around 83 during the day and 76-77 during the night. I think I need to go to a higher moonlight bulb.

humidity is around 50 I have one of the accurite hyrgo's

Peat moss isn't a good base substrate. You can use it for a humid hide, but not for the entire enclosure. I'd use Aspen, Cypress, Paper Towels or Newspaper.

You can usually find the styrofoam backings at larger pet stores. They are generally in the reptile section.

The more decorations and hides, the better. This will allow him to feel more secure.

He might just be on a hunger strike for breeding season. I'd offer him a live (appropriate size) mouse or rat to see if that kicks him in gear.

I agree, I wouldn't move him to a larger enclosure at this moment. Get him to feed for a month or so, and then move him. You can go ahead and buy and set up his enclosure, but hold off on the move.

I keep seeing people use foil over their screen lids, I found a much better looking solution that does a GREAT job. Go to wal-mart and track down the fabric department, there they have this clear plastic sheeting in various thicknesses. I like to get a thicker peice, then I cut it to fit over the screen, then I trace out a few air hows in the bottom using a cup as a stencil.

i use reptibark as a substrate with no worries.

Yeah It was not going to be an all of a sudden move. I was going to set it up the way I want it, then move after he eats for a while...any other info would help. I got my Otto from a guy's friend at work. He was just giving him a way so I wanted to make sure he was in a home that would care for him(ME) lol!!!! SO he told me he feeds med size rats. well the pet stores around here only sale small and large rats.. So i have a small rat in an enclosure of its own trying to let it grow....just a little bit. I did this for about a month now. We have a friend that has BP's that is supposed to come over today and show me
her method of feeding to see if it works on my guy and get him to feed.....Any other info from anyone...

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Originally Posted by ParmleyStyle

i use reptibark as a substrate with no worries.

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yeah the guy i got him from had this, but i felt it held too much moisture(prob not but just my opinion)

You said you are getting a 55gallon because that is what you want. Sorry but I think you need to reevaluate the situation. You should be doing what is best for your ball python, not just what you WANT to do. A 55 gallon is HUGE even for a full grown BP. Most of the hugeness comes from its height, which is next to useless for a full grown BP. They are terrestrial and will spend most of their time on the ground. If you really want a bigger tank, I would look into getting something that has more floor space than height.

As for substrate, I would use shredded aspen, looks great and hold humidity pretty well and keeps the smell down.

I had one of those Styrofoam backgrounds once and my BP ended up wedging herself behind it and I had to cut it to pieces to get her out. D:

Get a scale. I got mine from target for $20. Make sure it goes above 3,000grams and has a "tare" button. Weigh your snake, length is really not very useful for measuring snakes. Weigh your snake every week. If he is loosing a considerable amount weight while fasting, then I would see the vet. If he is maintaining his weight, then I wouldn't worry too much.

Trust what everyone says. I have a 55 gal. The whole snake set up was givin to me as a gift, by someone who really didn't know what they were doing. My snake is almost always happily hiding, so a bigger tank just means more places to look when you want to check on the snake. It was also hard getting the humidity at a constant 55%. I had to get a humidifier, and I have to check it often. I also have to be careful the temp doesn't drop too low. I do think you care a lot for your snake, and if you really want a big tank you can make it work. Be prepared to spend more money. And happy herping!!

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

You said you are getting a 55gallon because that is what you want. Sorry but I think you need to reevaluate the situation. You should be doing what is best for your ball python, not just what you WANT to do. A 55 gallon is HUGE even for a full grown BP. Most of the hugeness comes from its height, which is next to useless for a full grown BP. They are terrestrial and will spend most of their time on the ground. If you really want a bigger tank, I would look into getting something that has more floor space than height.

As for substrate, I would use shredded aspen, looks great and hold humidity pretty well and keeps the smell down.

I had one of those Styrofoam backgrounds once and my BP ended up wedging herself behind it and I had to cut it to pieces to get her out. D:

Get a scale. I got mine from target for $20. Make sure it goes above 3,000grams and has a "tare" button. Weigh your snake, length is really not very useful for measuring snakes. Weigh your snake every week. If he is loosing a considerable amount weight while fasting, then I would see the vet. If he is maintaining his weight, then I wouldn't worry too much.

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As for you saying at the beg. NO its not about me. But thanks for the concern I was saying that just to inform everyone that I know I can make it work, and too many people on here decide to bash everyone for their decisions that they make. Just because they believe that is the way it should be(when in fact none of us know exactly how the snake feels about the situation. They could love the bigger tank, and yours might hate it we don't know what they want because they can't talk.....but thanks for all the opinions everyone has given...

Otto, here's the thing about huge tanks. By nature, BP's are secretive and somewhat shy animals...that's one of the reasons they are so easy to handle, which is one of the reasons we all like them so much. Due to their nature, the vast majority of them do better in smaller surroundings. A tank that big, while workable, is really overkill. Ok, maybe you have that one BP in a million that wants some room to roam and loves all that extra space....but are you sure you have that one in a million, or are you just hoping you do?

I'm not really against large enclosures...heck, it's hard to find a bigger tank than Africa. What I'm against is subpar husbandry. The smaller your enclosure, the easier husbandry will be to maintain. In the long run, easier is better for your BP. Even if you achieve proper husbandry in a 55 gal tank, when the temps or humidity take a dive, they do so in large swings, not small increments. Big swings are bad.....that's all I'm trying to say.

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Originally Posted by Otto1208

As for you saying at the beg. NO its not about me. But thanks for the concern I was saying that just to inform everyone that I know I can make it work, and too many people on here decide to bash everyone for their decisions that they make. Just because they believe that is the way it should be(when in fact none of us know exactly how the snake feels about the situation. They could love the bigger tank, and yours might hate it we don't know what they want because they can't talk.....but thanks for all the opinions everyone has given...

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You said that you wanted to use the 55g. You said yourself, the snake cannot talk and therefor cannot tell you what it wants. All of the care-sheets I have read and all of the people I have talked to have assured me that a 55g is either way to big and can cause stress, or is just a waste of space. If you seriously want to have an animal in a 55g, I would look at a different type of snake.

Can a ball python live in a 55g tank with no problems? yes. But the reality is, it isn't an ideal environment.

And if you read my whole post you would have read a pretty good reason for why a 55 gallon doesn't really work. Most of the space is not in floor space, it is in height. except for the 10" from the ground up, the other 11" will not be used. That is over HALF of the entire tank. HALF of it will never be used by the BP.

If you truly want a large enclosure for your BP, I would suggest the largest you go be a 33gallon long: 48"x13" x12"

Here is a 55 gallons measurements for comparison: 48"x12"x21"

The height measurement is the key with ball pythons.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

If you truly want a large enclosure for your BP, I would suggest the largest you go be a 33gallon long: 48"x13" x12"

Here is a 55 gallons measurements for comparison: 48"x12"x21"

The height measurement is the key with ball pythons.

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I never thought of that way... thanks! I am considering to get a larger tank too.

I do not want anyone to think I do not care about my BP.. I do care about him so much..And i do not want anyone to think that I do not care about the information given. It is different when you bash someone because they are thinking about going a different route then you want to. I will prob go with a 33 long, but their is no need for comments like that was made just because the wording was not to your understanding. "It is better to ask questions than assume." I really appreciate all the help everyone has given me at this point.. What do you think about a 40 gallon breeder. Do you think this would be a good size for a BP....

a 40gallon breeder is not that much bigger than a 33 long. Most of the extra gallons come from the extra height, which is useless to BP's.

I know you want a bigger tank, but seriously, smaller is better.

How about this?

http://www.animalplastics.com/

Go under terrestrial cages and you will find cages with large floor space but not a lot of height eliminating the humidity and heat issues :)

You said its about the animals not you so I take you will be willing to spend the extra amount for a cage like that. There are more companies out there I am just giving an example.

While I do not really care whether you use a glass tank or a tub I would like to make one little comment here.

Whenever picking an enclosure this

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but it is what I want.

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should not be your priority, what you need to keep in mind is that your priority is that the enclosure chosen meets the need of your reptile and is not simply is what YOU want.

IF you read the whole thing Debroah. I said it is not about me. Once again... Somtimes wording can mean a whole deal....I said It was not about me so this is a perfect example of people bashing someone without reading the whole thing first...I KNOW IT IS NOT ABOUT MY WANTS....But also I know for a 4 foot python a 20L is not enought floor space is all I am saying and I want him to be able to have more room to be able to move around better when he is out....So IT IS NOT ABOUT ME!! I really appreciate all the real good help instead of all the bashing.(and NO i do accept constructive cristisim there is a difference) any one with other help I would appreciate it.

Here I go again... putting my neck out there on the chopping block...

BUT... we got these snakes and they have to live in our house. Therefore, it is a symbiotic relationship. If ONLY the snake's needs are to be met, we should leave them in Africa. But, since we like to keep them as pets, then the reptile gets to benefit from our care as well as we get to benefit from our experiences with them. Just as we have to adjust to the reptile, the reptile, would also need to adjust to our house. It is a delicate balance that needs to be achieved.

Having said that, I do not get much out of a snake that spends 90% of its time hiding under a rock. Therefore, for me, putting that snake in a 55 gallon or bigger decked out as a replica of an African forest gives me plenty to look at with or without the snake visible. I can look at it all day long and even have a few of my hardier orchid collections growing in this mini-forest that has the temperature and humidity settings perfectly suited for orchid growth. Yes, it takes a lot more effort to maintain, but that's effort I will gladly take on to enjoy my little piece of Africa. And of course, every single thing the snake needs is provided = the right temperature, the right humidity, right sized hides and plenty of canopy foliage.

So, yeah, 55 gallon or bigger - it can work. Just put in the extra effort it requires to maintain it. If it is what you desire. There's nothing wrong with anybody saying, I WANT THIS. As long as the health of the snake is also being considered and a balance achieved.

As a side note, our ball python was doing great for 3 months in a 55 gallon and then she went on a fast, so I moved her to a 20L. She started eating again. When she gets a few more regular feedings, I'll move her back to the 55 gallon. Or maybe not, depending on how she feels. Like I said, it's a delicate balance.

See this is someone who understand a little of what I am saying. I really appreciate your input. I know a lot of people are out there that do not care about their snakes. I love my BP,and eventually want to get into breeding. I have my eyes on a female G stripe right now(hopefully I will be able to get one soon...SO yes I really care about my snake and want him to be in good health. AND when I said I want this was refering to "I know people are going to disagree but I am likely considering getting this" SO I mean if you have the means to make it work then go for it, but If you do not want to take that much time then don't... I know breeding is different, and when I start breeding I will have a rack system for the babies..and Yes I am going to QT when I do get new BP's I already have the room to start the QT'ing in. I really love this site and yes we all can get our words mixd up in how we say them, and people might get confused...But that is where the correcting needs to be instead of being like a wild child bashing..THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR OPINION'S!!!! IT really helps a lot..And just to let everyone know my otto is in his shed YAAAY!!!!

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Originally Posted by Otto1208

But also I know for a 4 foot python a 20L is not enought floor space is all I am saying

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Actually, Otto, a 20 gal long is plenty of room for a 4 foot Ball Python.
It's been proven countless times by many owners here on BPnet, many of whom have been keeping BPs for many, many years.

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Originally Posted by anatess

Just as we have to adjust to the reptile, the reptile, would also need to adjust to our house.

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You are a human being and as such, are uniquely designed to adapt. Your rather large brain mass in proportion to your body size help you do that, as do your higher congnative powers.

Your Ball Python is orders of magnatude less capable of adapting to an unsuitible environment.

We may like to give them atributes to which they are not capable of, but it does not change what they are.

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Originally Posted by anatess

As a side note, our ball python was doing great for 3 months in a 55 gallon and then she went on a fast, so I moved her to a 20L. She started eating again.

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Just saying' :gj:

:snake::snake:Yes I do agree that we need to adapt to them..Thank you for your inputs all throughout this whole thread...You guys are soooo. amazing and I am looking for the ride when the time comes that I start the breeding feiasco..LOL!!! Even though sometime people bump heads as long as Good comes out of it I have no Prob....I might eventually build my own tank// Rack systems for my babies (when that time comes) and I look forward to all the help in the coming years!!:snake::snake:

Hey. If you need any help with your 55 gal let me know. I can send you pics of mine. My baby is happy with it, and that's all that matters. Remember where there is a will, there is a way :) Send me pics of yours when its done. Maybe i can get some ideas from you too. A little secrect, as bad as half logs are, my bp won't use anything else.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Actually, Otto, a 20 gal long is plenty of room for a 4 foot Ball Python.
It's been proven countless times by many owners here on BPnet, many of whom have been keeping BPs for many, many years.



You are a human being and as such, are uniquely designed to adapt. Your rather large brain mass in proportion to your body size help you do that, as do your higher congnative powers.

Your Ball Python is orders of magnatude less capable of adapting to an unsuitible environment.

We may like to give them atributes to which they are not capable of, but it does not change what they are.


Just saying' :gj:

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You are right, of course. And that's why it is a delicate balance with my human-ness on one side of the scale and its snake-ness on the other. :)

When I was researching snakes, I keep on hearing things about the corns and kings and ball pythons being "hardy". I interpreted this to mean that they have the quality to be able to adjust to alternative environments. Like the reptile store owner by my house. He's been keeping snakes for over 30 years. And, crazy as it may sound, he has his pet burmese, retic, boa, and anaconda in the same enclosure the size of my office. I've always wondered about that. But, who am I to say he's an idiot for keeping them together? Ya know what I mean?

Anatess,

How big is your office? Burmese pythons, retics, boas, and anacondas have different requirements. IMO it's EXTREMELY stupid, and I emphasize "extremely", to keep those four species together.

To throw my .02 in I would say that if you're going for a glass tank like that to keep the height down a bit. It's easier to maintain temps and humidity and your bp will probably hardly ever venture up high.
As for that other guy keeping those four species together.....that's just insanely ridiculous. I've always said "nothing has ever gone wrong...until it does"
That's kind of like saying I like to play in traffic and it's ok cause i've never been hit by a car...something will more than likely go wrong at some point.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Anatess,

How big is your office? Burmese pythons, retics, boas, and anacondas have different requirements. IMO it's EXTREMELY stupid, and I emphasize "extremely", to keep those four species together.

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Oh, I completely agree with you (from my meager research)! That's what I meant when I said I thought it was crazy.

Here are pics:

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...7/multiple.jpg

And here's the anaconda that is swimming in the pool at the end of the room (you can see the wall of the pool to the back of the above pic).

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l.../multiple2.jpg

But, like I said, he's been keeping reptiles for over 30 years so he's no newbie. I guess it works for his pets. I could easily wag my finger at him on that set-up but, I just couldn't justify doing that when he knows his pets best and I'm just a mother of 3 bp's and a hognose for a little over 5 months. I have to defer to his opinion on the matter.

I honestly don't even care when people say they've had x years of experience.

Point is, they're doing it wrong. It's that simple. Anacondas and boas live in the same region. I still think it's wrong but it would be acceptable to some extent.

A burmese and retic WITH these other two species? Come on, man. 30 years of experience and still you're making yourself look like a total idiot.

Just my .02.

You can do something your whole life, and you can still be doing it wrong. :)

There is no excuse for how he is housing those animals. Just because something hasn't happened (yet), doesn't mean it will stay that way. Those species should not be kept together, for several reasons. Husbandry is just one tiny little reason or how about stress and competition?

I think tanks over 50 are excellent.
I've seen an adult bp in a 30 and the poor thing looked miserable. Sure, they spend lots of time hiding during the day, but LOVE to be active and explore at night.

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Originally Posted by demonicchild

I think tanks over 50 are excellent.
I've seen an adult bp in a 30 and the poor thing looked miserable. Sure, they spend lots of time hiding during the day, but LOVE to be active and explore at night.

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What experience is this based on? Not trying to be a donkey, but most breeders keep their BPs in small enclosures and they feed, poop, and shed normally. That's how you tell if a snake is happy.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

What experience is this based on? Not trying to be a donkey, but most breeders keep their BPs in small enclosures and they feed, poop, and shed normally. That's how you tell if a snake is happy.

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It just seems extremely cramped to me.
Hearing people say that they can live in 20s drives me nuts. Now I am just getting into this hobby but really, 20 gallons are for hermit crabs and guppies. Not big snakes.

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Originally Posted by demonicchild

It just seems extremely cramped to me.
Hearing people say that they can live in 20s drives me nuts. Now I am just getting into this hobby but really, 20 gallons are for hermit crabs and guppies. Not big snakes.

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Right, because BPs are so huge :rolleyes:

Thing is, with any other species of snake that size I'd get a larger cage.

It's not my fault, however, that BPs spend their lives in termite mounds and rodent holes.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Right, because BPs are so huge :rolleyes:

Thing is, with any other species of snake that size I'd get a larger cage.

It's not my fault, however, that BPs spend their lives in termite mounds and rodent holes.

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But they also come alive at night and will use up all that space.
haha. To me, bps are huge! lol. Corn snake person over here. :rofl:

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Originally Posted by demonicchild

But they also come alive at night and will use up all that space.
haha. To me, bps are huge! lol. Corn snake person over here. :rofl:

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Of course they come out. At first I thought the same thing: how can snakes live in such a small enclosure? I even started a thread on if it was ethical to keep snakes in racks.

That's when I started hearing all the great success stories of people keeping these snakes in small enclosures...

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Originally Posted by demonicchild

But they also come alive at night and will use up all that space.
haha. To me, bps are huge! lol. Corn snake person over here. :rofl:

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I would say that corn snakes need more room than a BP :/

Yes, BP's are active at night, but they aren't super active and don't really need a huge amount of space. That is just how they are. My two girls live in 16qt tubs and they are perfectly content. They will move up to 30qt tubs in a few months and they will stay in those their whole lives (or until they can't fit in them anymore :P).

There are arguments for both sides. I still think they should be provided with as much room as possible. Of course keeping a corn hatchling in a 50 would be a bit much, but you know what I mean.

Plus, I love the decorating aspect and room you have to work with in a big area.