hybrids

I know some cornsnake morphs are hybrids but has anyone ever done a corn/pine/bull hybrid? I was planning to pick up my first bull this weekend and I have some corns already so I thought that might be neat if you could.

ask on hybrid haven......you'll get better responses!

Yeah I should have figured that lol. I understand some people have a problem with it but if thats the case they shouldn't read it and ignore it for good. As long as the animals are being sold as hybrids and not being passed as something else and the animal is healthy I don't see a problem with it.

i agree fully....never herd of the cross BTW.

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Originally Posted by southb

Yeah I should have figured that lol. I understand some people have a problem with it but if thats the case they shouldn't read it and ignore it for good. As long as the animals are being sold as hybrids and not being passed as something else and the animal is healthy I don't see a problem with it.

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And therein lies the problem. You can't guarantee the animal will be always sold or exchanged as a hybrid. Saying you can is denial.

Bulls and Pines aren't Colubrids so is that even possible?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

And therein lies the problem. You can't guarantee the animal will be always sold or exchanged as a hybrid. Saying you can is denial.

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So you saying if your at a show and have your table set up you couldn't sell the same person a stp and a ball for fear that they may breed the two together? I don't see this at all. Maybe i'm in denial like you say but maybe it's not about either right or wrong it's just a difference of opinon?

i think she means down the road. if you sell it as a hybrid to someone and they breed it and sell it as a non hybrid it becomes a problem.

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Originally Posted by southb

Yeah I should have figured that lol. I understand some people have a problem with it but if thats the case they shouldn't read it and ignore it for good. As long as the animals are being sold as hybrids and not being passed as something else and the animal is healthy I don't see a problem with it.

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So you are telling me that you can guarantee that the person that will buy your hybrid won’t breed it and if they do so they will label it as such, and you can also guarantee that the customer of the customer of your customer will do so as well and that no one down the road will buy something they think is pure but in fact is a mutt?

Can you?

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

i think she means down the road. if you sell it as a hybrid to someone and they breed it and sell it as a non hybrid it becomes a problem.

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Oh yeah, then I agree.....but when I sell I burm or retic I also think that it won't be released into the wild either. You can't help when people do after it's sold. I have signs up about releasing into the wild being wrong and bad for the environment. You can only do so much.

Heck I work at a gun store as well and you can only do so much to keep guns from getting to crimals but what happens when you sell a gun to a guy and he needs some money ten years later and sells it to his friend. The friend sells it to a collector and then blah blah who knows and it gets into the wrong hands? That doesn't mean handguns should be outlawed.

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Originally Posted by southb

Oh yeah, then I agree.....but when I sell I burm or retic I also think that it won't be released into the wild either. You can't help when people do after it's sold.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So you are telling me that you can guarantee that the person that will buy your hybrid won’t breed it and if they do so they will label it as such, and you can also guarantee that the customer of the customer of your customer will do so as well and that no one down the road will buy something they think is pure but in fact is a mutt?

Can you?

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This is stupid....in fact ignorant. You can't guarantee anything but health in animals and only then for so long. What happens if you sell a animal and four years he dies? Are you going to give a refund? Heck no, because after it's out of your hands you can only wish for the best.

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Originally Posted by southb

This is stupid....in fact ignorant. You can't guarantee anything but health in animals and only then for so long. What happens if you sell a animal and four years he dies? Are you going to give a refund? Heck no, because after it's out of your hands you can only wish for the best.

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:rolleye2: you are comparing apple and oranges here, we are talking about the ethic of hybrids. (but feel free to change subject whenever you want if you feel cornered :rolleyes:)

I was asking a question (to which BTW I knew the answer :rolleyes:) and you answered it too, you cannot guarentee anything which means while YOU might be honest and sale a snake for what, it is down the line who know's what can happen.

Again I have nothing against Hybrids you want one breed your snakes hatch some hybrids and KEEP THEM ALL to yourself so you do not contribute to the problem.

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Originally Posted by southb

This is stupid....in fact ignorant. You can't guarantee anything but health in animals and only then for so long. What happens if you sell a animal and four years he dies? Are you going to give a refund? Heck no, because after it's out of your hands you can only wish for the best.

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It's not stupid or ignorant. It's a point you seem to have missed. Introducing hybrids is frowned upon because of the inherent stupidity of people. Many believe in keeping pure lines and when the hybrids looks too similar to the real ones that's impossible. Wishing for the best won't cut it when YOU make the decision to produce and sell this animal. Some of the worst things are done with the best intentions, and there's no way to guarantee that your buyer will do the right thing when it comes to selling these animals. This is even more of an important thing in animals with smaller captive populations.

The important thing is to think before you do anything. You're kind of throwing a tantrum because people want pure animals. It's a touchy subject and you seem to know that, so don't take offense.

If I were to ever hybridize something I would never sell it since I personally don't think I could ever trust a buyer enough to properly market the animal if they were to sell it or it's offspring.

ALthough there are many examples, Hog Island boas are a great one. Too many people are sold 'pure' animals that are in fact mutts.

if i did every hybridize anything i would either keep the offspring or sell it to someone whom i KNOW wouldn't do anything stupid with it. granted, these people are few and far between but there is a small community out there.

i see peoples frustrations with hybrids and they have the right to their opinons.

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

if i did ever hybridize anything, i would either keep the offspring or sell it to someone whom i KNOW wouldn't do anything stupid with it. granted, these people are few and far between but there is a small community out there.

i see peoples frustrations with hybrids and they have the right to their opinons.

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Unless you can see the future, you don't know that they will never get rid of the animal.

That's at least my main concern.

There's hundreds of people that get into something, buy a dog or cat, fish or reptile that they KNOW they will keep till it dies. .... Until they have a baby, or move to a new state... or can no longer afford the animal.... or have lost interest in keeping it.


Go to a shelter, see all the animals that people KNEW they would have until it passed. I can't think of one person I personally know that bought a pet, knowing they would just get rid of it in a few years. People don't usually think in terms like that. It's always "forever", until they can't keep it anymore. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

ask on hybrid haven......you'll get better responses!

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You really need to stop with the references to other forums.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

You really need to stop with the references to other forums.

Bruce

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yeah i did that a while ago. i know now not to do it.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

And therein lies the problem. You can't guarantee the animal will be always sold or exchanged as a hybrid. Saying you can is denial.

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Can you guarantee that any animal you sell someone will not be used to make a Hybrid? For that matter do you have documents and genetic tests that prove "every" snake in your collection is a pure example of its breed? For that you would have to go all the way back to the wild caught parents and some how test their genetic sequencing against what science has classified as a genetically correct, for the example we will use, ball python strand. From their any morph would have differences that could potentially rule it out as a pure ball python. I hate to tell you this, but Hybrids are born in the wild more often than science would like to admit. Look at the Grizzly bear / Polar Bear hybrid that was found a couple years ago. Then once things become pets they even become more Hybridized, look at Fido the pet dog.

Micro chipping only goes for those owners capable of testing for the Micro chip. Last time I checked the readers cost some money.

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Originally Posted by Gloryhound

Can you guarantee that any animal you sell someone will not be used to make a Hybrid? For that matter do you have documents and genetic tests that prove "every" snake in your collection is a pure example of its breed? For that you would have to go all the way back to the wild caught parents and some how test their genetic sequencing against what science has classified as a genetically correct, for the example we will use, ball python strand. From their any morph would have differences that could potentially rule it out as a pure ball python. I hate to tell you this, but Hybrids are born in the wild more often than science would like to admit. Look at the Grizzly bear / Polar Bear hybrid that was found a couple years ago. Then once things become pets they even become more Hybridized, look at Fido the pet dog.

Micro chipping only goes for those owners capable of testing for the Micro chip. Last time I checked the readers cost some money.

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You never really make any solid point...

Anyway, to answer the point i think you're trying to make... DUH, that's what we've all been saying, you can't say someone will or won't do something. But the fact of making the hybrid in the first place is a good impetus for others to try and do the same. Your whole, 'anything you sell may be used for a hybrid' is a horrible example.

And the problem with your examples is geographic location. A ball and ... woma, chondro etc. would never occur. I think natural hybrids are fascinating and lead to the evolution of a species, but when crossing a savannah and a rainforest animal for the heck of it is completely different. I'll even admit that some of the hybrids are great looking, but then you think about that fact that in some herps you can't even tell the pure species from the hybrids, then there is in fact a serious problem and the reason behind the resistance to it.

Hybrids are cool if you yourself keep them all forever.

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Originally Posted by _Venom_

Hybrids are cool if you yourself keep them all forever.

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Is it all right with you if I wear my black Chuck's tomorrow or should it be the green ones?

sheesh

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Is it all right with you if I wear my black Chuck's tomorrow or should it be the green ones?

sheesh

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O_o


What the hell did I do?

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Originally Posted by _Venom_

O_o


What the hell did I do?

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dont matter...say the black ones....green chucks aint no good mmm mmmm