Feeding out of cage question...

I posted this question in as a reply in another thread but i think it was overlooked, anyway....

Im convinced that its pretty much a personal preference...arguements for both methods make sense...Now if u go the feed out of tank route, how do you go about putting them back in the vivarium. Just pick em up? I would think they would still be in a hunt mode and the risk for a bite would be elevated. with my corns i gently turn the bin and let them slide back in there cage from no more than a inch from the substrate.

please share your methods...

Just pick it up, real easy like, and move it back to the enclosure. You're going to get bit from time to time, but them's the breaks when you feed out of the cage. One of the many reasons I feed in their tubs.

I feed maxwell out of her cage and in a kritter keeper, when shes done eating i do the same thing you do with your corns, i tilt it very slowly and she slides out really smoothly. shes only 18 inches now though, so i dont know what im going to do when shes 4 ft lol. i'll refer back to this post.

Feed inside the cage, problem solved.

I fed in a seperate container once or twice and I would just wait for her to start moving around and I would just let her crawl on me and then into her tank. Sometimes this took a long time though :/ . I would rather just toss in a mouse and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by kaorte

feed inside the cage, problem solved.

I fed in a seperate container once or twice and i would just wait for her to start moving around and i would just let her crawl on me and then into her tank. Sometimes this took a long time though :/ . I would rather just toss in a mouse and be done with it.

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x2

YouTube - Ball Python Strikes Rat

I took this for you just now... It's really bad footage (filmed with phone), but I wanted to show you. Since You can't really see anything...

I prefer feeding out of the cage. They eat a lot faster (I don't even have to pre-scent the room).. I was bitten once a few years ago, but that was BEFORE i started box feeding. My pythons are usually very mellow outside the box. The one in the video let me weight him right after he ate. Since I have been feeding in boxes they have never even striked at me in their tank. Also, it eliminates the chance of ingesting bedding AND the mess stays in the box.

My boxes generally last a year before I have to replace them.. :)

I just set the snake's hide in the feeding bin (hide has a bottom), the snake crawls in and I return the hide to it's cage. Quick and painless. I don't get my hands anywhere near the snake on feeding day so it doesn't associate my hands with feeding or mistake them for a mouse.

Oh, and if you fed your snake enough, mine never really stay in "feeding mode" when I reach my hand in. I just pick up the box and they lay down because their balance is a little off with the box in the air--just pick them up and place them in the cage. You don't have to move it super fast--just don't put your hand in their face. XD

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Originally Posted by demonicchild

I just set the snake's hide in the feeding bin (hide has a bottom), the snake crawls in and I return the hide to it's cage. Quick and painless. I don't get my hands anywhere near the snake on feeding day so it doesn't associate my hands with feeding or mistake them for a mouse.

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This only works if your hides have bottoms though. All of mine have open bottoms.

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Originally Posted by demonicchild

I just set the snake's hide in the feeding bin (hide has a bottom), the snake crawls in and I return the hide to it's cage. Quick and painless. I don't get my hands anywhere near the snake on feeding day so it doesn't associate my hands with feeding or mistake them for a mouse.

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Thats smart! But, wouldn't your snake associate the hide with feeding?

My hides have open bottoms though..

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Originally Posted by Flicker

Thats smart! But, wouldn't your snake associate the hide with feeding, and thus the cage?

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There is no association, this is a myth.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

There is no association, this is a myth.

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This is true.


You have more chance of getting bitten when you feed out f the enclosure then when you feed in the enclosure.

Trust me.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

There is no association, this is a myth.

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Association is a fairly basic instinct--I don't see why Ball Pythons couldn't do that... where does it say it's a myth?

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Originally Posted by Flicker

Thats smart! But, wouldn't your snake associate the hide with feeding?

My hides have open bottoms though..

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I'm pretty sure having the snake associate it's hide with feeding is harmless, but unlikely. As long as it isn't my hand, I'm happy.

A shoebox with a hole in the side also works to transport the snake if your hides are bottomless ;)
They naturally gravitate towards dark, enclosed spaces so they will usually go in no problem.

As for the association "myth", the snake just saw a light colored creature hover above it and it turned out to be a meal. What will it think when you hand comes over it? I just like to be safe.

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Originally Posted by Flicker

Association is a fairly basic instinct--I don't see why Ball Pythons couldn't do that... where does it say it's a myth?

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Just because you feed a BP in its normal enclosure does not mean it is going to associate the enclosure with being fed. I would assume if you have a ball python as a pet you are not only going into its cage to feed it. My ball pythons are only aggressive on feeding day. I don't handle them the day of feeding or two days after. If they aren't hungry, they shouldn't be striking unless they feel threatened. If they feel threatened in their enclosure, something is probably wrong with husbandry.

I have feed in the cage and in a separate container and have never noticed a difference. My snakes do not associate opening the tub with being fed. Saying that there is an association just doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Just because you feed a BP in its normal enclosure does not mean it is going to associate the enclosure with being fed. I would assume if you have a ball python as a pet you are not only going into its cage to feed it. My ball pythons are only aggressive on feeding day. I don't handle them the day of feeding or two days after. If they aren't hungry, they shouldn't be striking unless they feel threatened. If they feel threatened in their enclosure, something is probably wrong with husbandry.

I have feed in the cage and in a separate container and have never noticed a difference. My snakes do not associate opening the tub with being fed. Saying that there is an association just doesn't make sense.

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Accidently thanked

Anyway association is in no way a "myth". :P Just because your snakes have never bitten you (At least, that's what you're implying) That doesn't mean they're unable to associate things with feeding.

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Originally Posted by Flicker

Accidently thanked

Anyway association is in no way a "myth". :P Just because your snakes have never bitten you (At least, that's what you're implying) That doesn't mean they're unable to associate things with feeding.

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There's still a higher chance of being bitten when you feed outside.

How do you expect me to feed a 7 foot RTB outside then put it back in?

After my RTB constricts and releases it doesn't eat. It just watches me and strikes at me thinking I'm food.

If I fed it outside... for SURE I'll get bit.

The argument just doesn't work. If a BP associates being put into a box with feeding, then what goes to say that it doesn't associate being taken out of its normal tank with being fed because you have to take it out to put it into the box.
Now unless you only took your snake out to put it in the box, then yes, there might be an association. But the truth is, most people take out their snakes and open their cages for many things other than feeding.

As for the whole "hand floating above = mouse thing". Snakes can smell. They can see. They can tell what is a prey item and what is not. Now obviously if you were handling a prey item and then were waving your hand over the snake, it might strike. Does that mean it associates your hand with being fed? no. It just mistook your hand for food.

I have handles mice and directly snakes after. They have never struck at me. They don't strike at me because they don't feel threatened and I make sure they are well fed and not hungry. If they are not hungry, they are not going to try and eat me.

/end wall of text.

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Originally Posted by Flicker

Association is a fairly basic instinct--I don't see why Ball Pythons couldn't do that... where does it say it's a myth?

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Originally Posted by Flicker

Anyway association is in no way a "myth". :P Just because your snakes have never bitten you (At least, that's what you're implying) That doesn't mean they're unable to associate things with feeding.

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Somewhere in the ballpark of about half the members on the Forum with a combined experience of about 5,000 years with a combined total of over 25,000 BPs....just sayin'.

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Originally Posted by _Venom_

There's still a higher chance of being bitten when you feed outside.

How do you expect me to feed a 7 foot RTB outside then put it back in?

After my RTB constricts and releases it doesn't eat. It just watches me and strikes at me thinking I'm food.

If I fed it outside... for SURE I'll get bit.

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Maybe that's because you're standing there while it's trying to eat? :P

And we're talking about 4 foot BPs. not 7 Foot snakes. :P If you have a nasty eater, just leave it inside. I'm saying i prefer feeding my BPs out of the cage because it has advantages.

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Originally Posted by demonicchild

I just set the snake's hide in the feeding bin (hide has a bottom), the snake crawls in and I return the hide to it's cage. Quick and painless. I don't get my hands anywhere near the snake on feeding day so it doesn't associate my hands with feeding or mistake them for a mouse.

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Thats a smart way to go but like sumbody else said ..this is assuming ur hide has a bottom...mine don't

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Originally Posted by Slim

Somewhere in the ballpark of about half the members on the Forum with a combined experience of about 5,000 years with a combined total of over 25,000 BPs....just sayin'.

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I'm not saying you're wrong, i mean, i don't think there is a super-strong association with feeding and stuff (besides smell), but you can't say they don't have that ability. :P

When I feed in the tub, I use tongs...no hand ever goes in the tub.

Were I to feed outside the tub my hand would always have to go in the tub to get them out, and to put them back in.

Which one is more likely to build an association with your hand and feeding?

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Originally Posted by Flicker

And we're talking about 4 foot BPs. not 7 Foot snakes. :

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Tomatoe tomato.

They both bite.

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Originally Posted by Slim

When I feed in the tub, I use tongs...no hand ever goes in the tub.

Were I to feed outside the tub my hand would always have to go in the tub to get them out, and to put them back in.

Which one is more likely to build an association with your hand and feeding?

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I thought you believed association was a myth?

What bedding do you use?

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Originally Posted by Flicker

Maybe that's because you're standing there while it's trying to eat? :P

And we're talking about 4 foot BPs. not 7 Foot snakes. :P If you have a nasty eater, just leave it inside. I'm saying i prefer feeding my BPs out of the cage because it has advantages.

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You seem to have a bit of a bite yourself.

There are no advantages to feeding outside an enclosure. Your stressing out the animal, and possibly causing regurgitation. Ball pythons don't associate feeding with hands or enclosures or hides.
When you have as many snakes as I do, it makes no sense to feed outside enclosure. None are bitey, and none have associated my hand with feeding. If substrate is an issue, it's not, because a little substrate ingested won't cause any problems.

If your just doing it for 'show' so you can see the process better, I find that selfish.

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Originally Posted by Flicker

I thought you believed association was a myth?

What bedding do you use?

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The association is a myth...my point was made because you don't believe it is. You can't live on both sides of the debate.

I use paper.

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Originally Posted by Slim

The association is a myth...my point was made because you don't believe it is. You can't live on both sides of the debate.

I use paper.

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Mmm. I love me some good newsprint, paper towels, and harmless aspen!

:gj:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

You seem to have a bit of a bite yourself.

There are no advantages to feeding outside an enclosure. Your stressing out the animal, and possibly causing regurgitation. Ball pythons don't associate feeding with hands or enclosures or hides.
When you have as many snakes as I do, it makes no sense to feed outside enclosure. None are bitey, and none have associated my hand with feeding. If substrate is an issue, it's not, because a little substrate ingested won't cause any problems.

If your just doing it for 'show' so you can see the process better, I find that selfish.

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I only have 2 ball pythons, and there are advantages to feeding outside a enclosure. It's cleaner and easer to keep an eye on live feed just to name a few. Also, the rats poop a ton when they're scared... you know, poopless, and I would rather that be in a box than in my pythons cage. Much easer to clean.

You don't need to attack me for my opinion. Like the FIRST POST said, it's a preference. I don't have 100 BPs and find feeding in boxes is much more convenient.

I took a quick video to help, It's funny how you twisted that and claimed I feed outside the enclose for show.

I think im gonna go with the feeding in enclosure method...im not to concerned about taking a bite, (dont get me wrong im tryna avoid it at all cost lol) but all the activity of moving i can see being unnecessary stress. My main concern was the semi-wet F/T mice getting aspen stuck, and my aspen isn't as finely shredded as the kind I used to find.

Afterall its not like you are forbidden to switch methods.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Mmm. I love me some good newsprint

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Actually, I use acid free poster board that I have cut to fit my tubs, but that's too hard to explain every time the substrate question comes up, so I just say paper ;)

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Originally Posted by Murf301

I think im gonna go with the feeding in enclosure method...im not to concerned about taking a bite, (dont get me wrong im tryna avoid it at all cost lol) but all the activity of moving i can see being unnecessary stress. My main concern was the semi-wet F/T mice getting aspen stuck, and my aspen isn't as finely shredded as the kind I used to find.

Afterall its not like you are forbidden to switch methods.

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Unless you have rat scent on your hand and go sticking your hand into your enclosure (I've done it before) you probably won't get bitten due to a feeding response.
People often find themselves bitten when trying to move the snake back to the enclosure after eating, because the snake is still in feeding mode.