Possible Offspring

A question for the BP geneticists out there. Would you please give me an idea of possible offspring arising from a male spider and a female piebald.

ill take a stab at it, not great with genetics so ill prob be wrong :(

spider(het pied)
pied(het spider)
double hets(pied/spider)
normals

Python Guru is wrong.

You will get 50% spiders het pied, and 50% het pied.

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Originally Posted by kc261

Python Guru is wrong.

You will get 50% spiders het pied, and 50% het pied.

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I WAS NOT WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: . . . . i was way off! lol:)

Thank and oops. Sorry. I guess I should have put this under the Genetics forum. If anyone can move it, please do so.

I know the spider is dominant and the pied is recessive. Does that mean I cannot get any new visual pieds or will they all be spiders and het pied? Since a pied is recessive, do you have to breed two pieds together to get a visual pied?

At least two het pieds?

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Originally Posted by Nvar

Thank and oops. Sorry. I guess I should have put this under the Genetics forum. If anyone can move it, please do so.

I know the spider is dominant and the pied is recessive. Does that mean I cannot get any new visual pieds or will they all be spiders and het pied? Since a pied is recessive, do you have to breed two pieds together to get a visual pied?

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You will not get any visual pieds until you breed 2 hets together. To get spider pieds, you'll need to breed together 2 spiders het for pied, or one spider het pied with one het pied.

BTW, it doesn't matter which is the male & which is the female, the outcome will be the same.

However, it is nice in this case that the pied is the female, because it does affect what you can do with the next generation. If you get a male spider het pied, you should be able to have it ready to breed by next breeding season, and pair it up with its mother to get: 25% spider pied, 25% pied, 25% spider het pied, and 25% het pied. On the other hand, if the male were the pied, you could breed him to one of his spider het pied daughters for the same results, but you'd have to wait 3 years for the daughter to grow up before you could do it.

Thanks much for the very useful info. You've answered my next question too which was breeding back to the mother. Is there a way to tell if an offspring is het or not? Is it designated as possible het since it has one parent of the morph type and is only proven het after it is breed and produces morph offspring?

In the example you gave, all of the offspring will be het. When they are the offspring of a visual specimen of a recessive morph, they are guaranteed to be het.

You get possible hets (phets) when you do not have a visual specimen. For example, I have some het albinos. When I bred them together, I will expect to get 25% visual albinos, 50% het albinos, and 25% normals. Since there is no way to know which are the hets and which as the normals, they will all be considered 66% phets. If you breed a het to a normal, you will get 50% hets and 50% normals. Again, you can't tell the difference so they are considered 50% hets.

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Originally Posted by Shadera

You will not get any visual pieds until you breed 2 hets together. To get spider pieds, you'll need to breed together 2 spiders het for pied, or one spider het pied with one het pied.

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To get spider pieds you can also breed a spider het pied to a pied. So next year, if you have a spider son from that spider x pied mating - you can breed him back to mommy (eeew, incest! :8: ... no, no, it's okay. Really.) and possibly get a spider pied!

Edit: Whoops. Kc261 already said it above..

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Originally Posted by Nvar

Thanks much for the very useful info. You've answered my next question too which was breeding back to the mother. Is there a way to tell if an offspring is het or not? Is it designated as possible het since it has one parent of the morph type and is only proven het after it is breed and produces morph offspring?

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If you breed a visual to anything, all the offspring will be hets.

If you breed a het to a normal, or another het, then all of the offspring will possibly be het. There is no definite way to know which ones are het and which ones are not. Some of the het pieds may have a het pied maker, which is two solid black lines that are each side of the snakes belly near the tail. Here is a picture of the het pied marker:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...9/HPNX0042.jpg

Hope this helps.

You would get Het Pieds and Spider Het Pieds.

I would get a female Pied and raise her up, while the result will be the same however the time frame will be different.

With a female pied to get a Spider Pied you would only need to keep a male Spider Het Pied and breed it back to it’s mom, which would take less time than raising female Spider Het Pieds and breeding them back to their dad if you had a male. ;)

Boy O Boy. I feel like a kid at Christmas thinking of the fun of breeding and the possible little wigglers I will get (hopefully in 3 or 4 years).

Again, many thanks to you all. And WooHoo!! I just made the committment and purchased a female visual Pied from J. Kobylka. Been wanting this for a while now.

If I may use this thread to ask a different question. I am also changing from my one trusty glass tank to a small RBI rack system. I know the ambient temp of a tank should be 80 to 85 degrees and have a basking area in the 90 to 95 degree temp range. How do you achieve this in a tub/rack system? Do I set the heating portion for the basking temp and it achieves the ambient temp through separation from the heat source?

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Again, many thanks to you all. And WooHoo!! I just made the committment and purchased a female visual Pied from J. Kobylka. Been wanting this for a while now.

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Congrats you will be very happy with her without a doubt Justin has some amazing animals :gj:

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Originally Posted by Nvar

Boy O Boy. I feel like a kid at Christmas thinking of the fun of breeding and the possible little wigglers I will get (hopefully in 3 or 4 years).

Again, many thanks to you all. And WooHoo!! I just made the committment and purchased a female visual Pied from J. Kobylka. Been wanting this for a while now.

If I may use this thread to ask a different question. I am also changing from my one trusty glass tank to a small RBI rack system. I know the ambient temp of a tank should be 80 to 85 degrees and have a basking area in the 90 to 95 degree temp range. How do you achieve this in a tub/rack system? Do I set the heating portion for the basking temp and it achieves the ambient temp through separation from the heat source?

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Grats on the pied. I love pieds.

The rack should be heated with flexwatt. You need a temperature controller to measure and control the heat. The temp controller probe will be placed behind one of the tubs in the rack to measure the hotspot in your tubs. If the ambient temp is not high enough, you may need to heat the room that the rack is in. I use oil-filled radiators to heat my snake room. I suggest purchasing a temperature gun to measure your temps. You can buy them for around $25. They are great for snake owners who have to measure more than one enclosure.

I have a temp gun already and the rack will be inside my home so temps shouldn't be an issue. I live in FL which makes maintaining temp and humidity fairly easy.

Also, do you typically put a single thermostat probe at the back of the tub and use it to regulate temp for the entire rack or do I need a thermostat that can do multiple sources?

Not being familar with racks, is the flex tape a single heat source for the entire rack or is it multiple sources, one for each tub?