Forget about being a good samaritan

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090226/...ritan_ticketed

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Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking

Thu Feb 26, 7:34 am ET

DENVER – A good Samaritan who helped push three people out of the path of a pickup truck before being struck and injured has gotten a strange reward for his good deed: A jaywalking ticket.

Family members said 58-year-old bus driver Jim Moffett and another man were helping two elderly women cross a busy Denver street in a snowstorm when he was hit Friday night.

Moffett suffered bleeding in the brain, broken bones, a dislocated shoulder and a possible ruptured spleen. He was in serious but stable condition Wednesday.

The Colorado State Patrol issued the citation. Trooper Ryan Sullivan said that despite Moffett's intentions, jaywalking contributed to the accident.

Moffett had been driving his bus when the two women got off. In the interest of safety, he got out and, together with another passenger, helped the ladies cross.

Moffett's stepson, Ken McDonald, said the driver of the pickup plowed into his stepfather, but not before Moffett pushed the two women out of the way.

When he awoke in intensive care, he learned of the ticket. "His reaction was dazed and confused. I was a little angry," said McDonald.

The other man also was cited for jaywalking, while the pickup driver was cited with careless driving that led to injury. Sullivan said the two elderly women haven't been cited but the investigation is ongoing.

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I read this story this morning, what an absolutely rediculous thing to do on the Police's part. Didn't they have some real crime to fight, I mean did they break out the citation pad before or after this guy was rushed to the hospital? What a joke...

No kidding, huh? I just read about that in the local newspaper. Sometime I have to wonder what police officers are thinking.

thats bs... you would think they would give him a break...

my brother was in a really had car accident five years ago because he was driving intoxicated... they were wil-co cops and they even said he had been through enough and let him go...

(williamson county cops are aweful and rutheless... everyone around here hates them!)

That's messed up!

No comment. I'll keep my profanity to myself. :rage::rage:

I'm generally the last person to stick up for the police, but just because you get injured while breaking the law doesn't mean you should avoid any consequences. The fact that they were jaywalking in the middle of a snowstorm is probably the reason they got hit in the first place. Had they been crossing at a light I'd be willing to bet that pickup wouldn't have hit them. Can't fix stupid I guess.

Well I'll play devil's advocate here too...

These two gentlemen took two elderly women, in a snowstorm with all that means about lowered visibility and the inability of vehicles to stop quickly, and hauled them into traffic. Not took them to a crosswalk or they wouldn't have gotten jaywalking charges. One man was hurt and I'm sorry for that but those older ladies might well have been killed.

I ride the city bus a lot. Not every bus stop is convenient to a safe street crossing. I have seen drivers break the rules to pull the bus up closer to a crossing so their passengers could cross safely in poor weather. I have seen drivers give verbal warning to passengers about being careful crossing when conditions are not great.

To say "forget about being a good samaritan" is just wrong in my opinion. You should always try but not in ways that aren't smart. One of the first things I was taught when I took first responder training years ago and had to learn to crawl into car wrecks and such like was, you do NO good for your victim if you end up hurt and being another victim yourself.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009...d-good-samari/

State Patrol is relooking at the case and may reverse their decision to issue a ticket for jaywalking. Personally, I'm partially upset that the bus driver got ticketed for jaywalking because the driver was cited for careless driving. We get a fair amount of snow here and I'm not saying you should just waltz out into the street, but it's necessary to go slow when it's snowing anyway.

Not knowing all the nuances of this incident, sorry, if you contribute to an accident, no matter how much you get hurt, you are responsible.

For endangering yourself, and for endangering others... and yeah, for breaking the law that is there to protect you and protect others from getting hurt.

I was driving and someone lead another person into the path of my vehicle... I would be more than a bit upset.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

To say "forget about being a good samaritan" is just wrong in my opinion. You should always try but not in ways that aren't smart. One of the first things I was taught when I took first responder training years ago and had to learn to crawl into car wrecks and such like was, you do NO good for your victim if you end up hurt and being another victim yourself.

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I think that to say "forget about being a good samaritan" is wrong also - but totally justified given the actions of the police department. What would you have a person do? - Watch two old ladies get off a bus and get ran over? Did these two guys trying to help those old ladies directly contribute to the crash? Can you say "But for these two guys trying to help these old ladies, this crash would have never happened." Of course you can't, accidents happen all the time. There are cars on the road and people trying to cross those roads - accidents happen. I think the driver should have gotten a ticket, it should be the responsibility of the person operating a multi-thousand pound weapon/vehicle to avoid pedestrians.

I work downtown, and used to ride public transportation to work and home everyday for 3+ years. People jaywalk all the time.

I could understand ticketing these guys if say - they rushed these ladies into the street, directly in front of an oncoming vehicle and they all got hit. But no, these guys tried to be nice and help these old ladies in crummy weather...THEN, when they saw danger coming, one of them pushed the old ladies to safety and got pwned by a truck. The poor guy has internal bleeding, broken bones, and is laid out in a hospital bed, and some trooper has the :cens0r: to say to himself "You know what? I think this guy needs to be taught a lesson about jaywalking."

Cops have horrible jobs. I could see why cops might find it easy to turn into horrible people themselves. I know times are tough and cities need money, but comon! I also find it interesting how the police department is "re-examining the investigation" in the wake of this big public outcry. How complicated is a "simple jaywalking" investigation? How could they have not gotten it correct the first time? Would the police department have done a review of their investigation without this public outcry? Did the public outcry force the police department to grow a heart, or are they simply trying to save face in the wake of this PR nightmare? I bet they're going to tuck-tail and run away from this mess any day now.

Also, these two guys aren't first responders. They were just two guys. They weren't training to be heroes and save people's lives, they weren't thinking about how best to keep themselves alive so that they can continue on to help even more old people. They were just trying to be nice. Let's not confuse our apples and oranges.

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

I'm generally the last person to stick up for the police, but just because you get injured while breaking the law doesn't mean you should avoid any consequences. The fact that they were jaywalking in the middle of a snowstorm is probably the reason they got hit in the first place. Had they been crossing at a light I'd be willing to bet that pickup wouldn't have hit them. Can't fix stupid I guess.

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The driver got cited for Careless Driving Resulting in Injury. In snow. Near a bus. Driving carelessly. That's stupid.

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

I was driving and someone lead another person into the path of my vehicle... I would be more than a bit upset.

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I'd stop the vehicle.

Assuming I wasn't speeding....or driving carelessly...resulting in an injury. But that's just me.

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Originally Posted by scutechute

I'd stop the vehicle.

Assuming I wasn't speeding....or driving carelessly...resulting in an injury. But that's just me.

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Admirable of you... but it was a storm... impaired conditions, etc. etc. etc. Lots of things at play.

That is the point I am making. These situations require EVERYONE be working to avoid accidents.

And if I was helping someone cross the street in a storm... I may ensure they are at a crosswalk.

But hey, that is just me.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

Admirable of you... but it was a storm... impaired conditions, etc. etc. etc. Lots of things at play.

That is the point I am making. These situations require EVERYONE be working to avoid accidents.

And if I was helping someone cross the street in a storm... I may ensure they are at a crosswalk.

But hey, that is just me.

Bruce

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Fair enough. Then why not just chalk it up to bad luck? Why the need to bust out the ticket pad? I think the backlash against the police department is very well justified.

Also wanted to say.

In this day and age, I think it sends the wrong message to ticket people that try to help other people. It WILL make people think twice about trying to help a person in need.

*edit*

I think the cops are making a point that if you are breaking the law... it may be a minor infraction, but the consequences can be HUGE.

This sounds like a very good example of a minor infraction that resulted in a devastating final outcome.

I am sure if they could have charged him with more then they would have.

It is very unfortunate and very sad. But 3 lives were put in immediate peril because of someone jaywalking. What if the vehicle had swerved and hit another car, or another person... then would people be villifying the jaywalkers?

There was a case where I used to live. A woman ran in front of a vehicle, the driver was not paying attention (and was driving too fast), so when he swerved he over corrected and took out a bus stop in which two school children (sisters) were waiting, and both were killed instantly.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by scutechute

I think that to say "forget about being a good samaritan" is wrong also - but totally justified given the actions of the police department. What would you have a person do? - Watch two old ladies get off a bus and get ran over? Did these two guys trying to help those old ladies directly contribute to the crash? Can you say "But for these two guys trying to help these old ladies, this crash would have never happened." Of course you can't, accidents happen all the time. There are cars on the road and people trying to cross those roads - accidents happen. I think the driver should have gotten a ticket, it should be the responsibility of the person operating a multi-thousand pound weapon/vehicle to avoid pedestrians.

I work downtown, and used to ride public transportation to work and home everyday for 3+ years. People jaywalk all the time.

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My point exactly, people jaywalk all the time and any city bus driver knows this. He/she also normally would know their route, know their route during poor weather conditions, and not do something so shortsighted as to walk two old women into oncoming traffic on wet roads.

I can say if those women were not on that road at that moment they wouldn't have been struck at that moment. If the oncoming driver had been driving to conditions and they were there, injuries might have also been prevented. In my mind both the vehicle driver and the bus driver deserved the tickets they got.

The driver, as a professional operator of his vehicle, I believe should not have left his vehicle, should have advised his passengers of the danger of crossing (jaywalking) in that weather but in the end if his passengers chose to put themselves at risk, I don't believe he should have assisted them in such a foolhardy thing.

Being a good samaritan also involves showing good sense. You don't need any training for that.

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

It is very unfortunate and very sad. But 3 lives were put in immediate peril because of someone jaywalking. What if the vehicle had swerved and hit another car, or another person... then would people be villifying the jaywalkers?

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No, the cup is half empty! 3 lives were put in immediate peril because of someone driving carelessly!

:) Just pointing out that you can see it from either perspective, and again, I put most of the responsibility for vehicle safety on the person operating the vehicle. The person controlling the vehicle should bear the responsibility of not operating that vehicle into people/things.

I know people are just playing devil's advocate, but in some ways you're defending the careless driver and blaming the pedestrians. All I'm saying is that a lot of people drive like morons - morning, noon, night, sunny, rainy, snowy and everything in between. I don't want to go shooting off statistics that I don't know, but I'm well aware that many many many people die of car accidents - whether alcohol or weather factor in or not. I'll go out on a limb and venture to guess that only a very small fraction of a percentage of vehicle deaths are caused by jaywalking. Now compare that to the percentage of vehicle deaths cause by careless driving - which could include speeding, and getting behind the wheel of a car after comsuming alcohol.

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

I am sure if they could have charged him with more then they would have.

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You betcha!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

My point exactly, people jaywalk all the time and any city bus driver knows this. He/she also normally would know their route, know their route during poor weather conditions, and not do something so shortsighted as to walk two old women into oncoming traffic on wet roads.

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I'm sure the bus driver knows the route like the back of his hand, but how is he supposed to "know" that a careless driver is just around the corner?

I can accept the idea that, yeah, if you're going to help someone across the street, look both ways to see that it's clear - but I would have to know the exact layout of the streets, visibility, line of sight etc. before I could make that judgment. And even then, if he made a mistake and lead these ladies into harm, let's not add insult to injury and fine him! He tried.