Pros and Cons of Asf verses reg rats

Hi am hoping to start raising feeders but wanted some opinions of the pros and cons of each of these.

Does one breed longer than the other?
Does one have more babies in a litter?
Is one easier than the other?
Can you keep all rats together like the ASFs?
Is one healthier than the other?

Just anything at all you all can tell me about these two would be greatly appreciated.

Think hubby is going to make me a rack with cement pans. We only found small and large and really wanted med but might have to go with one of those.

Anyway any info you can share would be greatly appreciated
rhsm

This is just my take on ASF's

1. They don't smell as bad as rats (urine)
2. You can leave the male with the females, you can't with regular rats
3. They don't get as big as regular rats so they won't outgrow your BP

Mike C can answer more I'm sure

Rats grow very fast which is great but they also outgrow ideal size very fast
Rats are friendly
Rat have a longer productive life

ASF grow slow but never outgrow ideal size
ASF do not smell
ASF have a tendency to bite (watch out for your fingers)
ASF are illegal in some states

Breeding longevity I think is about the same as far as I know, but ASF's can and typically do breed back to back since the male is left in with the breeding colony. I say typically because almost everyone elses ASF's breed like machines...and mine don't. Also, keep in mind that while ASF's breed back to back, that is typically not recommended for rats. We give our moms at least a 2 week break in between litters, and usually it is more like a month, especially if she lost some weight while nursing.

Both rats and ASF's are really easy. On one hand, rats are more tame/calm and will be easier to clean, remove babies, etc...but ASF's wont need to be cleaned nearly as often. We clean our rat tubs every week or so, depending on the tub, and our ASF's only need cleaning every 2-3 weeks.

Litter size varies more from female to female than from species to species in my opinion. Our ASF's litters from young and/or virgin moms have been anywhere from 9-12. Our rats vary from 8-14. From what I hear with other peoples experiences, I think ASF's litters tend to be bigger, but not until the female is into the swing of breeding.

Not really sure what you mean by the last two questions...but ASF colonies are usually permanent once they are estabilished. Most people have a hard time introducing or reintroducing another ASF once it has been removed. Rats typically move around and socialize without any problems, just make sure that if you have more than one male in a tub, it is an only male tub. Also, take special care not to overcrowd in any case, but especially the males and birthing moms.

As far as healthiness...if you mean is one a better feeder, than no, they are both the same. However, keep the size and growth rates in mind. Rat pinks start out much bigger than ASF/mice pinks, and grow very fast, and will be quite large within a month or so. ASF's start out much smaller, grow slower and overall do not get as big as adults. Adult females are about the size of a big retired breeder mouse, and the boys are about the size of a small rat.

If you are going to use a rack, make sure you build it right for the species you want to use. ASF's need 1/4" hardware cloth and rats need 1/2".

PS- I like our rats way more than our ASF's. We got our ASF's for a picky bp, and she still isnt eating. We enjoy having and breeding our rats just as much , if not more, than our reptile/exotics collection. I agree, ASF's smell is almost unnoticeable, while you will definitely know if you are breeding rats. The biggest thing is to just keep on top of cleaning them, vacuuming a lot, and if you can, have plenty of ventilation. An exhaust fans helps a ton (Thanks Connie)...unfortunately we really dont have a good setup to run one, especially in the winter.

PSS- Another thing I forgot to include. Escapee ability and motive. Rats are content to chill, and even when we have had "escapes" (open the tub, they jump up on top of the food and cruise around) you can tell they are content with being around you and dont fuss about going back in their tubs. Escapee ASF's are a pain to catch in the first place, and we have had so many rocket jump right back out the second they touch the ground, barely getting out again before we shut the lid. Grr!

Pros
less smell
BPs love them
large litters
they become pregnant as soon as they birth a litter.


Cons
they grow slowly
they'll chew out of plastic enclosures, and will destroy some styles of water-bottle
some lines are biters
they jump fast and far, and bounce like a superball when dropped in a tub.
they're illegal in some states

I dont have too much problems with my ASF. I like them for the large litter size. They are slower growers but for picky balls they usually do the trick.
They can be jumpy. I personally still clean them twice a week with my other rodents. because they are in the house and the smell of them does bother me. I think Id die if I went three weeks.
I havent had a problem with them ruining things like water bottles or chewing out of their cages. Typically my breeders I keep for about a year. I have had lots of fun breeding them. Working with different color, pattern. and my pink eyes

I love my ASF except I have only found one plastic container that they havent chewed out of tho!

A pro for "regular" rats is that they are also good for cross species feeding. They may outgrow BPs, but if you have any snakes that are larger(bloods, boas, large carpets?) you may very well want a source for rats that are too big for BP feeding.

I'm planning on eventually picking up few snakes of some larger species eventually, and will likely breed reg. rats rather than ASFs for that particular reason.

Plus I can keep the breeders as pets, I love rats they're just so fun.

Cons they grow slooooowwwww!
Pros everything is better than reg. Rats!

Rats stink.


You don't feel bad feeding off an ASF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by llovelace

This is just my take on ASF's

1. They don't smell as bad as rats (urine)
2. You can leave the male with the females, you can't with regular rats
3. They don't get as big as regular rats so they won't outgrow your BP

Mike C can answer more I'm sure

---

just wondering,why can't you leave male reg. rats with females?

I think they are both suitable animals to keep, depending on what animals you're feeding them too. In that respect, I can honestly say that neither is better than the other, but that you should use which animal is best for YOUR situation.

There are key differences.

ASF's are smaller, so they will be an ideal feeding size for smaller snakes like colubrids and small pythons for a longer period of time.

ASF's thrive in a colony environment, where the only space you need is for the grow ups. Whereas domestic rats are just plain larger in size (up to 8x in weight) and need more room, food, water etc.

Since ASF's are smaller, they don't produce as much waste as an adult norway rat and this affects the odor, but compared to a domestic rat of the same size, they do produce the same amounts. Now, where the baby rats are still nursing from the mother, the ASF's are already eating lab block and seeds.

I personally find the ASF's urine and waste to smell incredibly horribly terrible compared to norway rats, although it isnt a very STRONGLY permeating odor.

ASF's aren't very domestic, and frighten easily until they are older and used to humans. Norway rats are generally calm with humans, and actually can make great pets if you wish to socialize with them regularly.

ASF's are incredible chewers, and for some people that is reason enough to not keep them. They are busy animals and need stimulation to keep from destroying their habitat.

Again, ASF's are illegal in a lot of states because they are viewed as an aggressivly invasive species that can do a lot of damage to the natural environment in a short amount time.

a question that sort of goes with this... is it possible to control the population in an ASF colony? I'm afraid with ASFs I will be overpopulated rather quickly, while with rats I can simply not introduce the male anymore if i get overrun. I'm planning on freezing the majority btw, so size really doesn't matter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Smith285

a question that sort of goes with this... is it possible to control the population in an ASF colony? I'm afraid with ASFs I will be overpopulated rather quickly, while with rats I can simply not introduce the male anymore if i get overrun. I'm planning on freezing the majority btw, so size really doesn't matter

---

A kind of simple way to control the population is to remove the male, and feed him off once you have a litter. Then, leave a male in with the females to grow up with him. I have done it multiple times, and they should do just fine. If not, you can put the siblings together, but the wait period is longer for them to start up again.

It isn't a perfect system, it will take a while to get them going again, but it is a simple way to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

You don't feel bad feeding off an ASF.

---

X 10!!!!!! The line of ASFs that I purchased have given me so many problems...

My male got out today ( thank's son:mad:) and the bugger bit me! The bite was smaller then a domestic rat's bite but it still bled like crazy! Domestic rats can seperate thier top teeth so it does more damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Rats stink.


You don't feel bad feeding off an ASF.

---

LOL thats true. I get bit while changing out the food and water. The biters are the first to get fed off and i always feel better like Sweet revenge.

A couple days ago i lifted up the hide to check on a couple litters that dropped the night before. I made the mistake of sticking my finger into the opening of the hide to get a better grip. Im still bleeding...
My friends come over and ask if they can hold the ASF's. I smile and say sure. While im passing them the rat im holding the tail and humming the music to JAWS.