Lots of death...

I have been posting here a lot these past months regarding random deaths in my ASF tubs. Just recently I thought I had it under control. I hadn't had any deaths for a couple of litters. Last week I moved all of my weaners into the same tub (there were about 22 of them). Everyone has been active and I have observed them easily getting food and water.

The food hopper is half inch screening so I know they can easily get to the lab block. The water is also very accessible.

I haven't noticed any irregular behavior. And then about 4 days ago, my weaners have started dying. I've lost 5 now and more look weak.

I've made ONE change in this time but can't imagine that change is causing this. I used to keep an unused UTH under the tub to keep them at about 85 because my bathroom easily gets down to the low 70s at night. But like I said, they all huddle together at during the day and are active at night so I didn't think it was that big of an issue.

Could some cooler temperatures being killing off a large amount of my weaners? Any help is always appreciated...

Mitch

I think the temps are fine. &0 is ok for them as I keep my house 65-70 all the time. The breeder I got my ASF from kept his in the basement.I think It's more of a virus. Isolate them from your other rats or kill then off and scrub everything!

man you keep having so many problems.... shouldn't have anything to do with the temps. My garage gets down to the upper 50's and I don't have any issues.

I know right! The ASFs gods must be pissed at me or something... I feel like everything I'm doing is what everyone else is doing but mine just keep dying...


One more of my little guys is on his last breath it seems... He walks around the tub with his eyes almost closed (keep in mind, him and all the others have been fully aware and COMPLETELY FINE by themselves in this tub for the past week and a half), every couple of inches he walks, he stumbles and falls over. I don't know if he's searching for something. I've put a piece of lab block right in front of him and he doesn't want it. I've taken an extra water bottle and tried letting him drink and he'll take a couple licks but then is disinterested again...

NO IDEA what is going on.......... :confused::tears:

Annnnd another one is gone....


:depressed

When are you weaning them?

I wean them between 4 and 5 weeks of age when they have their eyes fully open and they're running around the parent tub...

All of these guys/girls have been fine for like the first 10 days that they were in the weanling tub. Then out of nowhere, almost half of them have died within the past 4 days....

wha type of bedding are you using?

you say they can get to the water, but are they drinking??

Why are you using heat? I dont use heat on my ASF stuff at all. Perfectly fine, even in a cold room.

I'm beginning to think there's some chemical or something in the air or bedding. Maybe the tub. For them to be fine for 10 days then start dying off, it seems like they might be getting poisoned from something in that tub. Are you feeding off the dead rats?

They are in fact drinking... I've witnessed it. I've seen them eating. They are on pine pellets. As soon as I saw a dead rat, I'd pull it out so it wouldn't sit in there very long at all.

I kept one of my UTH on them because I'm in college and we keep our house quite cold to save $$$. They definitely appreciate it because I set up the UTH in the middle of 2 tubs so that each tub has 1 corner being warmed, and both tubs set their nests up on top of the UTH.

I don't know everyone... I'm quite meticulous and observant and am absolutely willing to admit when I make a mistake, but I am clueless as to what happened. No more seem to be weak so hopefully the plague is done... Too bad I lost half my weanling population...

Thanks for the help everyone!!!

Can you give us a pic of your set up? Also, I'd put the UTH on the side of the enclosure, not underneath. Also, what are you feeding them exactly? Any seeds?

Sorry to hear you are having such troubles.

Not that it counts for much, I know that you are a very attentive keeper and give your animals incredible amounts of thought and care, so to have this happen is the worst. I can say this with confidence from conversations we have had in the past.

Would it help to maybe leave them with the parent population and not pull them?

Perhaps there is something going on that we do not know about, and staying in their colony of origin may be helpful.

Are the babes any different at birth, are you noticing any of them are "failure to thrive" offspring?

I agree with Connie's point of perhaps moving the UTH to the side... never know.

Bruce

Pine pellets, plus heat makes me wonder.

Honestly, id lose the heat entirely. they dont need it.

Are adults dying off?

Unfortunately I don't have a picture available--- My camera broke and I never took a picture of my colony before...

The setup is exactly what I've seen many others from the site do... I think it's a 55qt tub. I have pine pellet bedding. I feed mazuri lab block. I never feed anything but the lab block. I have a water bottle hooked up from the outside of the tub. I have a 1/2" wire food hopper suspended from the lid of the tub. And I have a big plastic bowl with a hole cut in it for a security home.

In the past, I've noticed that some of the babies turn out to be runts with very thinned out hair and smaller than the rest. The runts are usually cannibalized before I have a chance to wean them. But this particular weanling group had no runts. They all seemed healthy and active.

Bruce, I've tried what you suggested about leaving the babies with the parents a bit longer, and the result was not pretty. At about week 5 1/2 or 6, the parents started eating the young adults. Since then, my method of taking the weanlings out is simply when their eyes have opened and I observe them running around the tub for a FEW DAYS...

Since this all happened, I removed the heat source, I cleaned both tubs, and now that there's no weak ASFs left, the colony seems to be doing fine again... It could very well have been a combination of the heat, with 2 weeks of feces, and a leaky water bottle. This is the only thing that I could come up with... but even at that I don't know. It didn't smell bad and like I said earlier, the heat source only covered about 15% of the tub being in one corner...

Sorry for the rambling and thanks for all the help and questions... I just don't think I'm going to solve this mystery. When I get home from college, I think I'm just going to buy a whole new line of ASFs since mine have given me sooo many problems...

Nothing worse than having a line that does now work out well.

I have had to cull the odd line of mice, rats, and ASFs for that reason.

Hope it works out OK.

Just curious though if the adults were not killing them, but rather were eating weak or dying offspring? Being that you saw one failing.

I know my colonies will do that. I find the odd *tuft of fur* and realize they have gone all Lord of the Rings on one of their own.

Either way it is not good.

Bruce

i find one ( remains) evern now and then I keep mine in wit hte reptile ( same room) and no real problems I do have a tan k Idumped the weaned one into and let them go andhey live I wondering what gonig on .. I keep mine in glass tnask since i don't use them for reptiles. and use regualre pine shavings. and they love to chew.... I also suggest trying a differnet feed maybe the lab block to ohard for them and they straving to death. I igve mine seed and some times a cat/dog food mix and they go nuts over it .. most of my problem seemd ot be with swollen eyes in the adults and a cou-ple young onces that are real thin furred.

The two times I have seen this happen is when either they arent weaned or when they get dehydrated because they cant reach the water or the water was let out and no one noticed... I have been able to save a few when its been the dehydration by throwing them in some nice wet washed greens. but if its because they werent ready to wean you wont have a chance.
Has this happened with every litter?

My garage gets near 30F often. I don't have an issue with deaths. I am very sorry to hear about your rats dying, and hope you figure out what the issue is soon.

Everything is under control now... I still have no clue what happened, but I lost a total of 7 weanlings in a 4 day period...

Everyone else seems to be completely healthy and doing well again. Just thought I'd post an update...

Thanks for all the help! :salute:

I'm glad everything seems to be under control :)