I messed up...

Well...

Long story short, I bred the wrong recessive morph to my het.

One of my Het Albino females was supposed to be going to my Axanthic het Albino.

I didn't do that.

I put her in with my Albino.

Now, my question to you breeders is this.

Next year, I would like to do the pairing I SHOULD have done this season.

I am just concerned about recessive issues with genetics and possibilities of sperm retention and so forth.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

Was it only one breeding or did you breed her all season with just the albino??

Wes Harris told me that he's had bps that retained sperm for over two years, for what it's worth. I would skip a year with her or breed her to a homozygous co-dom next year, than the following year anything that isn't a co-dom from next year's breeding will be what you think it is. That's just what I would do, just to be safe.

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Originally Posted by mcbrayerreptiles

Was it only one breeding or did you breed her all season with just the albino??

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After the one accident, I just left him in with her... I figured it wouldn't be worth it to second guess the babies.

Is there a concern other than uncertain genetics? I don't know much about breeding and am curious what the reason for not breeding her to both this season is.

Sperm retention does happen but its not THAT often. I'd go ahead and breed the axanthic het to your het next year if I were you. No real reason not to...

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Originally Posted by katiadarling

Is there a concern other than uncertain genetics? I don't know much about breeding and am curious what the reason for not breeding her to both this season is.

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Its only a genetic issue.

If I get Albinos out of the pairing, and I bred her to BOTH, it would always be a question of whether or not those animals were 100% Axanthic or not, which is not distinguishable other than by breeding.

All of the clutch would be under debate as to the genetics.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Its only a genetic issue.

If I get Albinos out of the pairing, and I bred her to BOTH, it would always be a question of whether or not those animals were 100% Axanthic or not, which is not distinguishable other than by breeding.

All of the clutch would be under debate as to the genetics.

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Thanks for the explanation! That's what I was thought.

Hi,

Is there any supporting evidence for the idea that periods of higher temperature reduce the viability of any stored sperm?

Just wondered if you could use a modified form of the "behavioral fever" idea if there was. Gord alone knows how you would determine what temp range to use though. :confused:

You probably couldn't be 100% certain either way mind you. :(


dr del

IF sperm retention is likely, then we should ALL be worried. How many of us have bought hets and inquired as to whether or not the female was bred to a different recessive the previous year?

A het for clown could in fact be het for albino, etc....depending on the previous year's breeding.

JonV

id go head with this yrs plan next yr, as said already retention doesnt happen that much, or alot more people would be looking for femal normals that were bred to high end morphs the yr b4... and if your still not sure bout the gens after you breed next yr you can ship all the babies here ill just have to keep my fingers crossed.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Its only a genetic issue.

If I get Albinos out of the pairing, and I bred her to BOTH, it would always be a question of whether or not those animals were 100% Axanthic or not, which is not distinguishable other than by breeding.

All of the clutch would be under debate as to the genetics.

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Its ok Heather I would gladly try and make some snows for you lol.

Can any experienced breeders weigh in on sperm retention? How often does it happen?

Or, I wonder if there is a market for recessives for which females have only been bred to that SAME recessive the previous year or taken a year off in between?

JonV

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Can any experienced breeders weigh in on sperm retention? How often does it happen?

Or, I wonder if there is a market for recessives for which females have only been bred to that SAME recessive the previous year or taken a year off in between?

JonV

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Oh it happens as it burned me :mad:.The first year i bred my pastel to my girl she threw all normals :mad:.Of course thats what she was bred to the previous year :(.Thats why its a good idea to keep perfect records if you have numerous snakes incase a boo boo happens you should be able to tell the genes lol

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Oh it happens as it burned me :mad:.The first year i bred my pastel to my girl she threw all normals :mad:.Of course thats what she was bred to the previous year :(.Thats why its a good idea to keep perfect records if you have numerous snakes incase a boo boo happens you should be able to tell the genes lol

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Well, that could have happened depending on odds and the male she was bred to? What did you breed her to?

JonV

Did you breed any other het albinos to that axanthic het albino male?

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Wes Harris told me that he's had bps that retained sperm for over two years, for what it's worth. I would skip a year with her or breed her to a homozygous co-dom next year, than the following year anything that isn't a co-dom from next year's breeding will be what you think it is. That's just what I would do, just to be safe.

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If you get lucky and produce a double homo male, I'd breed her next year to a codom 'just in case' and then breed to that doublehom the year after.
Other than that, I'm not too sure sperm retention is a big deal, otherwise you would hear about it happening alot more with codoms etc.
good luck!

I say go for it and breed them next year :salute:

I think there are a couple situations that should cause some concern for breeders but is all the more reason breeders have genetic guarantees and need to properly follow through with the guarantee "should" something, however low probability, happen.

One of them is this situation. I do believe that sperm retention can happen but is pretty unlikely. I would say that it's possible if eggs were not laid but if a female lays for you it's most likely impossible that she will retain sperm past that point. Basically if fertilization occurs you are golden for next year....if it doesn't there is a small probability that she might retain that sperm. (I'm sure Tracy B. or other more educated herpetologists could chime in here and confirm or deny this hypothesis)

The other situation that I had happen to me personally was parthogenesis.....in short the dam had a hatchling genetically identical to her. I bred a lemon pastel to an axanthic and got a single axanthic female. Repeated the same breeding again the following year thinking my pastel was actually a het and no axanthics. This got me thinking.....if you breed a homozygous recessive to a normal and the same thing happens you would never know? Even though it's super low probability....it can happen. This is where the breeder's guarantee comes in.

Hope that helps. I would go ahead and breed the axanthic het to her next year, especially if she lays. You have impeccable character Heather so I have know doubt any animal you sell will be backed genetically and an awesome animal to boot. :)

Just give her to me and you wont have o worry about her.

All seriousness......sorry, Recessive breeding becomes a totally different game doesnt it? Gone are the days of just rotating males in the girls tubs.....

Either way good luck Heather ......:gj:

You'll make many pretty babies this year I am sure.

This is for you---> :hug: Cause I know your like this---> :rolleye2:

But it will all be fine, cause your the Wonganator...........

and we love you!---> :grouphug:

Heather,
If it was me, I would do the Axanthic Het next year, but sell the babies as just Albinos. Keep the girls and try them in a couple years. If you wanted to sell the babies as Albino Het Axanthics (or Poss. DHs), then I would give the girl the year off.

I typically will not breed recessive traits two years in a row if there is doubt, just to give that extra bit of assurance.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Heather,
If it was me, I would do the Axanthic Het next year, but sell the babies as just Albinos. Keep the girls and try them in a couple years. If you wanted to sell the babies as Albino Het Axanthics (or Poss. DHs), then I would give the girl the year off.

I typically will not breed recessive traits two years in a row if there is doubt, just to give that extra bit of assurance.

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That's pretty much where I'm at...

I've been tossing and turning and kicking myself about it, as I don't want to misrepresent any animal.

I'm just kinda irritated I forgot..

Oh well.

Now to figure out what poss het Albino co-dom I want to make, eh? ;) Or a year off....

Heather,
Put some of those smoking Black Pastels you got into an Albino project. That would be my vote. Albino Cinny or Black Patels are some rockin' animals.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Heather,
Put some of those smoking Black Pastels you got into an Albino project. That would be my vote. Albino Cinny or Black Patels are some rockin' animals.

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yes they are smoking hot animals!
how about the sable :D

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Oh it happens as it burned me :mad:.The first year i bred my pastel to my girl she threw all normals :mad:.Of course thats what she was bred to the previous year :(.Thats why its a good idea to keep perfect records if you have numerous snakes incase a boo boo happens you should be able to tell the genes lol

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I've had a female that was a virgin breed to a male pastel and throw all normals. Bad odds do happen.

Denis
DenJenn Reptiles
www.pythonregius.ca

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Oh it happens as it burned me :mad:.The first year i bred my pastel to my girl she threw all normals :mad:.Of course thats what she was bred to the previous year :(.Thats why its a good idea to keep perfect records if you have numerous snakes incase a boo boo happens you should be able to tell the genes lol

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I bred a virgin normal female (that I raised from a baby myself) to a pastel and got all normals last year. The other pastel clutch I only got two out of six pastels (also to a virgin female). She's being bred to the mojave this year - we'll see if I get any more pastels in this clutch.

Good one.. You always have very interesting predicaments.

I would continue on with breeding that you planned out instead of your booboo.

Just make sure you tell who you sell the babies to the situation. Since you have a good rep I am sure they will believe you. I am also sure some people in this post will want to take those off your hands too. hehehe. Hets for anything cost the same anyway.. dang BP market. No matter what you will have to wait. and wait..

The BFF

On the sperm retention note. This happened with my Boa that I bought as an adult. She was supposedly a virgin. I bred her to a hypo (now proven super) and she had all normal babies the first year no hypos not even ugly ones. The second and third year all hypos. Go figure.

I agree that you should just breed next year what you wanted to breed this year. I would just sell them as albino and a MIGHT be het.

Good luck and hope you get some screaming babies out of it :D