My snake loves it.

I see this all the time.

"My snake loves its new hide"
"My snake loves aspen substrate"
"My snake loves the tub"
"My snake is happy"


I know part of this is us as humans trying to find common emotional ties with our snakes but what does everyone think?

Do snakes "love"? Can they experience happy?

My personal opinion is that snakes don't have emotions, and therefore cannot love or be happy.

This thread doesn't need to be a serious "DO SNAKES HAVE EMOTIONS THREAD" I was thinking more of a fun thread to talk about what our snakes "love". If that makes sense. I just woke up from a nap, this could be a terrible idea!

I voted they have no emotion but have preferences, just my opinion:).

no emtion but i think perference for sure.

My first female ball will come out of her hide and crawl right up my arm when i stick my hand in. but will ball up if anyone else does, and not move an inch.

Then i had a het albino male who was meaner than sin. thought at first i could handle him. then couldnt get near him without being bittin. But i traded him for a boa at a local pet store, and the lady who owned the place picked him right up and he was all over her, but if she got close to me he was ready to get me??? lol maybe he is "happy" with her

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

I see this all the time.

"My snake loves its new hide"
"My snake loves aspen substrate"
"My snake loves the tub"
"My snake is happy"


I know part of this is us as humans trying to find common emotional ties with our snakes but what does everyone think?

Do snakes "love"? Can they experience happy?

My personal opinion is that snakes don't have emotions, and therefore cannot love or be happy.

This thread doesn't need to be a serious "DO SNAKES HAVE EMOTIONS THREAD" I was thinking more of a fun thread to talk about what our snakes "love". If that makes sense. I just woke up from a nap, this could be a terrible idea!

---

if they can be stressed then they have the ability to like something as well. simple as that. to stress over something would be because you dislike it, which means..... bingo they have the ability to like something as well. some may call it love some may call it a preference but the fact of the matter is. they have the ability to like or dislike something. stress is a form of an emotion, so is anger and fear. they are very capable of them, we see it sime times, like when they ball up, or strike.

do they love? i dont know. but i cant say for sure they dont... ive never had a conversation with a BP :P but i do know love is an emotion and they are capable of them. so sure why not i guess its possible.

i like beer... or wait maybe i love it? well i started off liking my girlfriend... but now i can say i do love her... get the drift? :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffJ

if they can be stressed then they have the ability to like something as well. simple as that. to stress over something would be because you dislike it, which means..... bingo they have the ability to like something as well. some may call it love some may call it a preference but the fact of the matter is. they have the ability to like or dislike something. stress is a form of an emotion, so is anger and fear. they are very capable of them, we see it sime times, like when they ball up, or strike.

do they love? i dont know. but i cant say for sure they dont... ive never had a conversation with a BP :P but i do know love is an emotion and they are capable of them. so sure why not i guess its possible.

i like beer... or wait maybe i love it? well i started off liking my girlfriend... but not i can say i do love her... get the drift? :P

---

Ah ha, very good point, never looked at it like that. i like the way you think. especially the beer and girl friend comparison lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barbee

Ah ha, very good point, never looked at it like that. i like the way you think. especially the beer and girl friend comparison lol.

---

u know what, if i were a snake i think id love eating..... and a hide.


lol just my preference if i were a snake.... :snake:

I did not vote. I have learned to not vote on polls. ;)

I think snakes have preferences and that is good with me. I have some that are more inquisitive and ones that definitely favor me.

My sweet Olive (her name not her species) will leave new handlers and will crawl to me. It is not just random, as she does it all the time.

I have several "up the arm and out of the rack" before I can close the tubs type of snakes. Kevin is my main man.

I also have several "I AM GONNA EAT YOUR FACE!!!" snakes. Linda, comes to mind, named after the zombie Linda from Evil Dead. Never a more fitting name was given to a BP. :)

But I prefer them all and I love them all. They do not need to love me back.

But... when I am having a bad day, I take great solace in the fact that I can take a snake break and watch a bit of TV and know that my sweet Olive will sit with me, rest her head on my hand, and sit there being 3 KG of pure and simple sweetness.

But if you ask me "does my snake love me?" I will tell you unequivocably... "NO!!!"

Does my snake love me? Of course she does... I mean, no she doesn't. I mean... *meh*

bruce

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffJ

u know what, id i were a snake i think id love eating..... and a hide.


lol just my preference if i were a snake.... :snake:

---

i think id like eating ALOT, and some soaking in a warm water dish. And diffenitly chililn with the hottie females. :gj:

Addendum:

I think when people use language such as "snake loves its hide" etc... that is just us using the language we know.

Not a bad thing necessarily.

I have learned to edit what I say, because I know how I read posts.

But a snake having an owner that is REALLY into them, not such a bad thing IMHO.

Makes for a great snake-keeper relationship, and that is the best thing any captive snake can want. (I think I stole that line from our good friend Jo).

B

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffJ

if they can be stressed then they have the ability to like something as well. simple as that. to stress over something would be because you dislike it, which means..... bingo they have the ability to like something as well. some may call it love some may call it a preference but the fact of the matter is. they have the ability to like or dislike something. stress is a form of an emotion, so is anger and fear. they are very capable of them, we see it sime times, like when they ball up, or strike.

i like beer... or wait maybe i love it? well i started off liking my girlfriend... but not i can say i do love her... get the drift? :P

---

Love is a human emotion though. Can you say that a snake actually loves its hide box? Yes it feels secure there, but can it actually love it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barbee

i think id like eating ALOT, and some soaking in a warm water dish. And diffenitly chililn with the hottie females. :gj:

---

hmmm chilling with the hotties, i know where id go for "heat" if i were a snake lol.... i mean opportunity would be prime. no slaps in the face :P

Bruce,

Now I MUST name a male snake Ashley. I love evil dead! I haven't seen it in so long.


I guess what I am getting it is, so many people claim their snake loves their enclosure, but how do you really know? It surely isn't going to literally tell you. I suppose all we can do is interpert their actions and slap on emotional human language and call it a day.

i think the only time snakes love is once a year if your lucky :rolleye2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffJ

hmmm chilling with the hotties, i know where id go for "heat" if i were a snake lol.... i mean opportunity would be prime. no slaps in the face :P

---

Ha ha i hear ya. no slaps, but possibly being bitten? And i think thatd hurt more as a snake than a person. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Love is a human emotion though. Can you say that a snake actually loves its hide box? Yes it feels secure there, but can it actually love it?

---

i don't know, i can disregard the fact that they can feel emotion and they are capable of favoring something.... after all isnt that love? something that you favor over anything els of its type? lets look at this on the flip side, i cant say 100% they do love or feel some other strong emotion when they favor something even thought we do know that they are able to prefer or like something which is a emotion.

can you say for a fact that they dont or cant love something OR favor something largely over something els of its likeness?

may i direct you to definition 10 :) with that definition we can say our snake loves its hide :P it does not give me lil snakey kisses though thats just weird haha
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/love

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Bruce,

Now I MUST name a male snake Ashley. I love evil dead! I haven't seen it in so long.


I guess what I am getting it is, so many people claim their snake loves their enclosure, but how do you really know? It surely isn't going to literally tell you. I suppose all we can do is interpert their actions and slap on emotional human language and call it a day.

---

For sure.

And that is the blessing and the curse in keeping reptiles.

My partner will tell me at length what our/his corn snake LOVES. And I use that language at times. I use it with my own snakes. But I also have a strong grasp of their psysiological and physical needs.

But if a person is grounded in husbandry and does their research, I do not think that using affectionate language is such a bad thing.

I know it is a dirty word and we are all quick to pounce on them (I have done it AND I have been pounced on early on in my snake keeping).... but if they do grasp the intricacies of it, then why not also have some fun with our animals?

Do I think snakes LOVE <3 ? Not in the least. I have too many brain physiology classes under my belt. But will I make flip comments about my snakes when I am holding them, or explaining them to others... yeah. I probably do. :)

Bruce

uh oh! gettin technical now!

On another note, who knows at all, they could feel love at twice what i could ever feel it for all i know? theres no tellin im not a snake, but it makes me happy to think i can make my snakes "happy" and comfy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Bruce,

Now I MUST name a male snake Ashley. I love evil dead! I haven't seen it in so long.


I guess what I am getting it is, so many people claim their snake loves their enclosure, but how do you really know? It surely isn't going to literally tell you. I suppose all we can do is interpert their actions and slap on emotional human language and call it a day.

---

i think what it boils down to is that we use our english language to describe the feeling that we think our snake is closely resembling. does that mean they are experiencing it? no, but does that mean they cannot. id also have to say no. we just dont know. there brain could be strictly based on a love hate rational and we just cant say for sure.

one major factor here, take in to concideration how much WE love our snakes. i think it rubs off on them just a little :P i know we all like ot think so but who knows. i do know my little guy favours me rather then my girfriend grabbing him from his viv, and also when the cat aproaches he retreats to me. even though 2 of my 3 cats are to lazy to get him. one being 18 and is slower then a snail in a tiathalon. and the other is 28 lbs and can bairly walk. and the kitten, well she gets locked up when the snake is out and about as she is by no means trust worthy at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffJ

i don't know, i can disregard the fact that they can feel emotion and they are capable of favoring something.... after all isnt that love? something that you favor over anything els of its type? lets look at this on the flip side, i cant say 100% they do love or feel some other strong emotion when they favor something even thought we do know that they are able to prefer or like something which is a emotion.

can you say for a fact that they dont or cant love something OR favor something largely over something els of its likeness?

may i direct you to definition 10 :) with that definition we can say our snake loves its hide :P it does not give me lil snakey kisses though thats just weird haha
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/love

---

I consider love to be a human emotion. I think it can be applied to certain animals that are more complex. But there is only so much a snake can do to convey "emotion". They can slither, flick their tongue, and lay around. They don't have any distinctive noises of content like cats do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffJ

i think what it boils down to is that we use our english language to describe the feeling that we think our snake is closely resembling. does that mean they are experiencing it? no, but does that mean they cannot. id also have to say no. we just dont know. there brain could be strictly based on a love hate rational and we just cant say for sure.

---

Has anyone seen donnie darko?


FEAR and LOVE are the two most basic of snake emotions.

:rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Has anyone seen donnie darko?


FEAR and LOVE are the two most basic of snake emotions.

:rofl:

---

i fell asleep, GF says it was a good movie tho... i like the song Mad world by Gary Joules... last i remember lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Has anyone seen donnie darko?


FEAR and LOVE are the two most basic of snake emotions.

:rofl:

---

:rofl: LOVE that freakin movie! Where should that lifeline card go? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffJ

i fell asleep, GF says it was a good movie tho... i like the song Mad world by Gary Joules... last i remember lol

---

I have seen it close to 15 times. You should re watch it! It is great!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MissMowgli

:rofl: LOVE that freakin movie! Where should that lifeline card go? ;)

---

Your snake strikes at you when you are opening her tub to feed her.


FEAR--------------------------------X--------------------------------LOVE

Your snake calmly slithers all over you while you are watching TV.

FEAR--------------------------------X--------------------------------LOVE

:rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

I have seen it close to 15 times. You should re watch it! It is great!

---

ill add it to the list. i still have about 25 movies on my playstation 3 that i have not watched lol

My snakes love Ice Cream....and playing the Lotto!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slim

My snakes love Ice Cream....and playing the Lotto!

---

my snake loves cigs and beer and Vegas....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffJ

my snake loves cigs and beer and Vegas....

---

Your snake and I have a lot in common...I loves me some Vegas:banana:

My snakes like martinis and long walks on the beach.

Animals have evolved so that things that are good for them, they prefer, and are more likely to do. Things that are bad for them, they avoid. We people have evolved so that we like things that would help the species (sex, high-calorie foods, warmth, other people) so I think yes, you could say snakes "like" certain things, because they have evolved to: safe-feeling places to hide, warmth. and they have evolved to avoid/"dislike": grabby squeezy harassing hands, stressful new moving things around them. Just as all animals are born with inherent, evolved preferences, all animals are capable of responding to punishment and reinforcement. So if coming out means getting to eat, for example, they are going to "like" coming out and try to come out whenever they want food. The same chemicals and mental processes that make us like or dislike, they react to, as well.

re: loving US, they don't do it. Snakes have evolved no preference for long-term relationships with other snakes, or people. They mate and never chat again, they don't mate for life and they aren't social animals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slim

Your snake and I have a lot in common...I loves me some Vegas:banana:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

My snakes like martinis and long walks on the beach.

---

oh yah well my snake likes hook..... wait thats to far lol :rofl:

I think snakes have different attitudes, and emotions that are more preferences than emotions.
Snakes do not have human emotions.. but they can fear things and enjoy things naturally, which could be considered a lower intelligence emotion.

Some may say it's just instinct, but not all snakes do it the same.. and I thought instinct was usually the same amongst a species.

Just a thought.

Context, lets put emotion aside, what if the context was using it as a description of how much one enjoys something. not an emotion but rather an expression. so, "my snake loves his hide." "but he does not want to sleep with it." lol although i dont think the OP was referring to context.

So what about all those people who push their own emotions on their snake? Here is an example:
In another thread, a member is using a bird house as a hide box. He claims his snakes loves this box. Now, it is possible all his husbandry is fine, but he has a strange hide box. BP's like hiding, therefore they are going to spend time in a hide box. Does that mean that he BP loves that particular hide box?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

So what about all those people who push their own emotions on their snake? Here is an example:
In another thread, a member is using a bird house as a hide box. He claims his snakes loves this box. Now, it is possible all his husbandry is fine, but he has a strange hide box. BP's like hiding, therefore they are going to spend time in a hide box. Does that mean that he BP loves that particular hide box?

---

no but his context would be correct if he was. i have a feeling the BP is hiding in there as its the only resource to. i was in that thread as well :P BUT if the BP chooses that over a more appropriate hide then his context would be correct, because he enjoys that more then any other, but and yes there is a second but here lol not like the 2 cheek kind though, im sure he is pushing his emotions upon the snake rather then using it in the other context form.

Quote:

---

Some may say it's just instinct, but not all snakes do it the same.. And I thought instinct was usually the same amongst a species.

---

"Instinct" is not really the best explanation for ANY behavior.*All animals within a species (well, species that are not genetically identical) can have different behavior, even if it is a genetically pre-determined behavior. A crazy wolf could be born that likes to hang out around human towns to scavenge instead of hunt, even though hunting is considered an "instinct" for them.

Sure, not all snakes act the same, but all that proves is that they're not all genetically identical [assuming most snake behavior is pre-determined, and not learned]
Snake's general preferences are determined by evolution, but small variances in preferences of course exist (a few degrees in temp, slightly smaller or larger hide) and are explained by genetic diversity.

*re instinct: It can't REALLY be proven or defined, because behaviors are influenced by a mix between genetics and experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffJ

if they can be stressed then they have the ability to like something as well. simple as that. to stress over something would be because you dislike it, which means..... bingo they have the ability to like something as well. some may call it love some may call it a preference but the fact of the matter is. they have the ability to like or dislike something. stress is a form of an emotion, so is anger and fear. they are very capable of them, we see it sime times, like when they ball up, or strike.

do they love? i dont know. but i cant say for sure they dont... ive never had a conversation with a BP :P but i do know love is an emotion and they are capable of them. so sure why not i guess its possible.

---

In order words:

Fundamental Fact; Snakes are stressed by certain things.

Snakes dislike certain things because those things cause them stress.

If snakes are able to dislike certain things, snakes must also be able to like certain things.

Love is a extreme degree of like; if a snake likes something to an extreme level, the snake loves that thing.

Conclusion: Snakes are able to love.

well my male normal loves me as much as a snake can! and my female spider hates all life.... is possibly the devil manifest in snake flesh.

who knows! no one can really say how snakes feel. and if they do feel its most likely not anywhere near what we are capable of feeling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moriar

well my male normal loves me as much as a snake can! and my female spider hates all life.... is possibly the devil manifest in snake flesh.

who knows! no one can really say how snakes feel. and if they do feel its most likely not anywhere near what we are capable of feeling.

---

your spider a bit nippy is she? :P

My vote is for snakes are incapable of emotion, but I do think they have preferences. Most of mine prefer to be left alone I think.

My snake likes to party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

I consider love to be a human emotion. I think it can be applied to certain animals that are more complex. But there is only so much a snake can do to convey "emotion". They can slither, flick their tongue, and lay around.

---

Body Language. They can move in 3 dimensions, just as we can, so they aren't very limited in conveying how they feel IMO.

Just as in music (depth of field), the 3 dimensions are achieved by sound alone.
Left to right - Panning of course.
Front and back - (fx)Reverb, volume, (fx)delay, . . .

I think movement can be interpreted almost the same way at times.
Snakes can move in all four directions, speed is like their volume, and they have distinct movement patterns (curling in a ball when threatened, or the pose before they strike, for example).

Not sure If i conveyed that well, but I agree with what JeffJ was saying; We don't know for sure, but they certainly experience stress (likes/dislikes) and comfort. . .

Ummm...my snakes love rats :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jsh

I voted they have no emotion but have preferences, just my opinion:).

---

I am lazy... what he said..

Mike

How can so many people vote that snakes have no emotions?

Is stress not an emotion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zhang317

How can so many people vote that snakes have no emotions?

Is stress not an emotion?

---

my thoughts exactly.

I feel as though we put the label of "emotion" onto our snakes. Do they feel the emotion stress? no, they show signs that would be humanly defined as "stressed".

We call it stress because it is easy for us to relate to and understand.

I think with my post I was trying to refer more to the complex human emotion of love. I don't think snakes are capable of love.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

I feel as though we put the label of "emotion" onto our snakes. Do they feel the emotion stress? no, they show signs that would be humanly defined as "stressed".

We call it stress because it is easy for us to relate to and understand.

I think with my post I was trying to refer more to the complex human emotion of love. I don't think snakes are capable of love.

---

Yah, I get an idea of what you are saying. Yes, as human beings we do often label our traits onto animals or other beings.

However, I do feel so emotions, are universal amongst animals, such as hunger and fear. I guess a combination of hunger and fear can be what humans label as stress.

In conclusion, I think we just get confused by the tricky terms here. lol

I don't think they can "love" per sey, I think that's a strong word since there are so many different definitions for it. however, I think they can feel emotion from their owners, pick up on that and have preferences for one over the other. I know Jakey prefers Nick over me, but I think that's because Nick isn't nervous AT ALL around him. Me? I'm the one who feeds and cares for him, however don't really handle him as much.