Sweet hybrid hook up

well for those that like hybrids........ this one is for you.....

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9...ture198ix4.jpg

Carpet x ball ?

What a waste of perfectly good breeders.

congrats lance! im glad those worked out for you!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrLew

Carpet x ball ?

---

yeah.....after seeing todd's i had to make some for myself. These will be my 1st snake hybrids. Right now i only have hybrid geckos (crested X chahoua crosses)

Nice! I'll be attempting to make some of these this year too. I really like hybrids, especially the ball x carpets. Did you have to trick your male into mating with her (swapping out a ball female or the other way around) or did they just get right to it? :D
Anyways, good luck! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arachnocat

Did you have to trick your male into mating with her (swapping out a ball female or the other way around) or did they just get right to it? :D
Anyways, good luck! :D

---

you can try that.... i would

Forget the haters.

Good luck with this!!

You better post baby pics. :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by N4S

Forget the haters.

Good luck with this!!

You better post baby pics. :gj:

---

x2. I don't see anything wrong with hybrids as long as there is no "flaws" that they fail to thrive. I can't wait to see those babies. good luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fattielumpkin

x2. I don't see anything wrong with hybrids as long as there is no "flaws" that they fail to thrive. I can't wait to see those babies. good luck.

---

I think most ppl don't like them because it can muck up blood lines and whatnot. Me on the other hand could care less as long as it's healthy and cool looking then go for it but I would never sell any of the babies off and therefore will never do it but more power to you bud and definitely need pics when you get babies.

I do think that it's a cool looking hybrid. As long as they can't be confused or sold incorrectly, I don't have any issues with hybrids. People say it's not natural, but it's also not natural to keep pythons in little tubs on newspaper.

i have recently gotten into hybrids (the idea anyway) and i wish you good luck!

I would love to keep hybrids, along with my pure line snakes one day. Hybrids are interesting animals, you just have to keep em responsibly.

Not gonna hate here.....totally think that this is a waste, but not gonna go there.


My serious question to you...for reals....

Why? To do it just to do it?

What is the purpose of this?

Please, not tryin to hate, just want to know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waltah!

I do think that it's a cool looking hybrid. As long as they can't be confused or sold incorrectly, I don't have any issues with hybrids. People say it's not natural, but it's also not natural to keep pythons in little tubs on newspaper.

---

I'm with you. Some people seem to think that species shouldnt be mixed b/c they wouldnt in the wild. Why??? its not like we are about to repopulate africa with albino BPs if the wild ones were all wiped out.
IMO All morphs and hybrids are basically dead ends in terms of wild evolution, but if we focus on them maybe the market for wild caught will die off instead of the wild populations getting raped.

my 2cents!!!:taz:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Not gonna hate here.....totally think that this is a waste, but not gonna go there.


My serious question to you...for reals....

Why? To do it just to do it?

What is the purpose of this?

Please, not tryin to hate, just want to know.

---

because i like them....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Not gonna hate here.....totally think that this is a waste, but not gonna go there.


My serious question to you...for reals....

Why? To do it just to do it?

What is the purpose of this?

Please, not tryin to hate, just want to know.

---

People like hybrids for similar reasons that people like specific morphs or specific species. It's about looks, size, shape, personality.. Why do you like kingpin ball pythons?(for example.. not really sure what you're into specifically!) Or albino burms?

I think that the ball x burm hybrid is just about one of the most gorgeous snakes out there. I'm a little less fond of carpet x ball hybrids. The F2 superballs are pretty darn outstanding.

I'm still waiting for the SD retic x ball attempt. IMO that has potential for great colors on top of incredible patterning, all in a snake of manageable size with a fantastic appetite.

Of course my fav. hybrid I've ever seen pics of is the gaboon x rhino viper hybrid.. dear god it's beautiful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebead

I'm with you. Some people seem to think that species shouldnt be mixed b/c they wouldnt in the wild. Why??? its not like we are about to repopulate africa with albino BPs if the wild ones were all wiped out.
IMO All morphs and hybrids are basically dead ends in terms of wild evolution, but if we focus on them maybe the market for wild caught will die off instead of the wild populations getting raped.

my 2cents!!!:taz:

---

if they were wiped out you wouldnt do that? its been done before with alot of different animals.

i love the burm ball and the wall(womaxball)

Is that a jungle carpet? If so, that would be one time that I know of that cross being tried.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lance Portal Reptile

because i like them....

---

Thats your answer to my serious questions?????!?!?!?




You go ahead and continue to mud up bloodlines my friend......go ahead

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Thats your answer to my serious questions?????!?!?!?




You go ahead and continue to mud up bloodlines my friend......go ahead

---

i dont keep hybrids, not that i wouldn't if i wasn't concentrating on a specific animal, but why doens't his simple answer completely get down to the very root of the reason EVERY SINGLE ONE of us is in this? that's a pretty serious answer imo. that's why i do what i do with my money when i buy my bp's. because i like them. even a more juvenile "i think they're cool" or "i want something different" explains why anyone on this forum is so into what they do, in collecting, selective breeding, or in this case, breeding hybrids. poo poo on those who damn someone elses interests. evolution has been made possible by 'mucking up' bloodlines, that's why there is so many breeds to choose from now, he's not mounting a horse, he's breeding two animals close enough in type that they are ABLE to make offspring which in itself explains why it's not so far fetched to think it's so unthinkable to do.

Not into hybrids, but don't knock others. One question, is crossing different species of boas considered hybrids? ex Hogg Island X Puruvian or Normal X Hogg. Just wondering, my partner who deals with the boas crossed a Hogg X normal and got some pretty good looking babies. Also saw a cross between a Puruvian and Hypo normal and it looked very nice. Are these hybrids or just crosses??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Not gonna hate here.....totally think that this is a waste, but not gonna go there.


My serious question to you...for reals....

Why? To do it just to do it?

What is the purpose of this?

Please, not tryin to hate, just want to know.

---

Pat i too am into hybrids. i think they are amazing animals. they are very different looking and have interesting patterns. i like just about all hybrids out there. the corn hybrids are little.....idk. but the pyton ones just look really cool.

so the answer to your question for most would be just for looks.

I am interested to see what pops out :) I am not against hybrids, but do think that they should be microchiped so that if they are resold they can be identified (of course I think any animal that will be sold should be microchipped}. But that is just my own humble opion. Good luck and please keep us updated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lance Portal Reptile

because i like them....

---

Wow. Just wow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FatBoy

Not into hybrids, but don't knock others. One question, is crossing different species of boas considered hybrids? ex Hogg Island X Puruvian or Normal X Hogg. Just wondering, my partner who deals with the boas crossed a Hogg X normal and got some pretty good looking babies. Also saw a cross between a Puruvian and Hypo normal and it looked very nice. Are these hybrids or just crosses??

---

If they are the same species and subspecies, then they are not hybrids. That doesn't mean they are pure blooded either. Many people in the boa world would consider them mutts. It would be no different then crossing a cornsnake from Florida with a cornsnake from North Carolina. They are two completely different populations with different looks, but the same species.

There are probably as many people who are as passionate about locality pure animals as there are people who are passionate about hybrids. I see them as two extreme ends of the snake keeping hobby as a whole.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

If they are the same species and subspecies, then they are not hybrids. That doesn't mean they are pure blooded either. Many people in the boa world would consider them mutts. It would be no different then crossing a cornsnake from Florida with a cornsnake from North Carolina. They are two completely different populations with different looks, but the same species.

There are probably as many people who are as passionate about locality pure animals as there are people who are passionate about hybrids. I see them as two extreme ends of the snake keeping hobby as a whole.

---

Exactly how do the genetics work with hybrids like carpets and balls? Both have different body structures, and one gets much larger but is not as thick in proportion body wise as the ball.
I'm going to assume all babies are sterile as well?

What are you going to do with the offspring?

Do you have a guaranteed way to prevent these animals from getting mixed up later on when/if they are in other peoples hands and muddying up bloodlines in the future?


I wont hate on it, if you are approaching this in a responsible manner, and can Guarantee that the offspring you produce will never ever get mixed up into the bloodlines of either species. ( I will give the same to ANYONE producing hybrids)

If you have no plan... you need to start thinking of one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mooingtricycle

What are you going to do with the offspring?

Do you have a guaranteed way to prevent these animals from getting mixed up later on when/if they are in other peoples hands and muddying up bloodlines in the future?


I wont hate on it, if you are approaching this in a responsible manner, and can Guarantee that the offspring you produce will never ever get mixed up into the bloodlines of either species. ( I will give the same to ANYONE producing hybrids)

If you have no plan... you need to start thinking of one.

---

There is no way, down the road at least. He can microchip all the babies and sell them for what they are, but then all of those people have the same responsability. How can anyone who produces hybrids guarantee that somewhere down the road someone with F3s or F4s all bred back to pure bps or pure carpets will be as honest. I think that's the last thing the carpet hobby needs at this point. And we've seen this exact issue happen with every species that's been hybridized; corns, carpets, boas... Truely responsible and honestly represented hybrids don't happen in the long run, no matter how responsible the intentions are at the begining of a project.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PythonWallace

There is no way, down the road at least. He can microchip all the babies and sell them for what they are, but then all of those people have the same responsability. How can anyone who produces hybrids guarantee that somewhere down the road someone with F3s or F4s all bred back to pure bps or pure carpets will be as honest. I think that's the last thing the carpet hobby needs at this point. And we've seen this exact issue happen with every species that's been hybridized; corns, carpets, boas... Truely responsible and honestly represented hybrids don't happen in the long run, no matter how responsible the intentions are at the begining of a project.

---

:) ( Youre replying to one of the hybrid haters... massively so)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Thats your answer to my serious questions?????!?!?!?




You go ahead and continue to mud up bloodlines my friend......go ahead

---

i dont think i need to justify why i like different things....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lance Portal Reptile

i dont think i need to justify why i like different things....

---

Its not justifying what you like. its justifying your reasons for the breeding of two totally different species in captivity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPenn

Is that a jungle carpet? If so, that would be one time that I know of that cross being tried.

---

yes it is a jungle and have been told that i might be the 1st.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mooingtricycle

What are you going to do with the offspring?

Do you have a guaranteed way to prevent these animals from getting mixed up later on when/if they are in other peoples hands and muddying up bloodlines in the future?


I wont hate on it, if you are approaching this in a responsible manner, and can Guarantee that the offspring you produce will never ever get mixed up into the bloodlines of either species. ( I will give the same to ANYONE producing hybrids)

If you have no plan... you need to start thinking of one.

---

If you have seen any of the hybrids from this type of breeding, there is no way that they could be mistaken for either of the parent species. As for future high percentage crosses (if they are not sterile), it will be anyones gamble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PythonWallace

There is no way, down the road at least. He can microchip all the babies and sell them for what they are, but then all of those people have the same responsability. How can anyone who produces hybrids guarantee that somewhere down the road someone with F3s or F4s all bred back to pure bps or pure carpets will be as honest. I think that's the last thing the carpet hobby needs at this point. And we've seen this exact issue happen with every species that's been hybridized; corns, carpets, boas... Truely responsible and honestly represented hybrids don't happen in the long run, no matter how responsible the intentions are at the begining of a project.

---

You are right, the carpet world has had this problem for a very long time. There really is no way to know if these hybrids will get mixed into "pure" lines down the road or not. The best thing I can advise anyone, and I will say this caps, KNOW YOUR HISTORY ON YOUR ANIMALS AND BUY FROM A REPUTABLE BREEDER THAT CAN ALSO TELL YOU WHERE HIS/HER ADULTS CAME FROM. This has not really been much of a problem in the ball world yet but wait till those mongrel balls (75% ball x Borneos) get mixed into the gene pool by unscrupulous breeders.

so whats this mudding bloodlines..if you have a hybrid carpet ball bredd it to a ball breed those babies to a ball and those babies to balls what would be wrong with the blood in it?
would it not breed...not get the results of the ball morph you want or whatever...someone explain

hybrids look dope that burm ball is sick and im all for hybrids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by azpythons

so whats this mudding bloodlines..if you have a hybrid carpet ball bredd it to a ball breed those babies to a ball and those babies to balls what would be wrong with the blood in it?
would it not breed...not get the results of the ball morph you want or whatever...someone explain

hybrids look dope that burm ball is sick and im all for hybrids.

---

and i would breed them because...i like them....


wow...simply wow ;) this guys a moron

(there beat you to it!!)

And his justification for that is because he likes it.
why do you watch t.v.????
humans wouldnt do that in the wild...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mooingtricycle

Its not justifying what you like. its justifying your reasons for the breeding of two totally different species in captivity.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by azpythons

so whats this mudding bloodlines..if you have a hybrid carpet ball bredd it to a ball breed those babies to a ball and those babies to balls what would be wrong with the blood in it?

---

You would have a mutt. No matter how many times you breed the hybrid back with a Ball....it will NEVER be pure. The issue here is that an animal who may look 'pure' down the road would still be say...10% carpet.

....so then down the road...you may purchase a 'pure' ball when in reality it could be a hybrid...

Although not considered hybrids...this is becoming a problem with morelia. It is hard to find a 'pure' JCP. Many have been crossed with Coastals, Diamonds, and IJ's. However people try to breed these offspring back to Jungles...but they are never the same.

ok so are there any problems with having a ball thats 10 percent carpet?? i mean when it comes to breeding or anything??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jerhart

You would have a mutt. No matter how many times you breed the hybrid back with a Ball....it will NEVER be pure. The issue here is that an animal who may look 'pure' down the road would still be say...10% carpet.

....so then down the road...you may purchase a 'pure' ball when in reality it could be a hybrid...

Although not considered hybrids...this is becoming a problem with morelia. It is hard to find a 'pure' JCP. Many have been crossed with Coastals, Diamonds, and IJ's. However people try to breed these offspring back to Jungles...but they are never the same.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by azpythons

ok so are there any problems with having a ball thats 10 percent carpet?? i mean when it comes to breeding or anything??

---

I wouldn't want it for my breeding stock..

Eh I like a few of the hybrids out there and don't have much against them. I wouldn't mind owning it for the novelty factor, that's about it though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by azpythons

ok so are there any problems with having a ball thats 10 percent carpet?? i mean when it comes to breeding or anything??

---

...there is no problem with HAVING one. But the reality is, records will not be kept as they should and this will lead to an individual buying a 'pure' ball when they are not. So then whatever the individual breeds the "10% carpet" will never result in pure Balls.

SO....you have an individual breeding what they think is pure to another ball...and selling these 'pure' specimen as normals balls....when all these normal balls are really, hybrids. Hence the 'mudding' up of the gene pool and possibly the hobby.

The key here is to keep precise records with these Hybrids....but more than likely...records will be lost over time....

The Hybrid market is not great...so who knows what will become of the offspring.

I just dont want to be responsible for mudding up our hobby. Thats all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by azpythons

ok so are there any problems with having a ball thats 10 percent carpet?? i mean when it comes to breeding or anything??

---

If it is sold to you as a Ball Python, I call that misrepresentation of an animal and this is why many people have issue with Hybrids.

While some people will sell hybrids for what they are down the road somewhere you will have someone that will not be as honest and that is one of the problem among others.

just look at nerd's carpet x macklotts... they look like a crazy patterned carpet! how long before something like that is misrepresented as a 'new carpet morph'.

now that makes sense...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin Vestrand

just look at nerd's carpet x macklotts... they look like a crazy patterned carpet! how long before something like that is misrepresented as a 'new carpet morph'.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by azpythons

ok so are there any problems with having a ball thats 10 percent carpet?? i mean when it comes to breeding or anything??

---

Yes. When I'm breeding for a certain look or trait foreign genes from a completely different species can give unpredictable results that may not breed true. I've run into this problem before when I was sold a pair of Northern Pine snakes that turned out to actually be bullsnake/pinesnake hybrids. The babies all looked different from each other with some favoring their pine snake ancestors and some favoring their bull snake ancestors and none of them looking like any of their other siblings.

And to be perfectly honest I think hating on soemone cause they like hybrids is like hating on someone cause they like Retics more than balls, it's just plain silly.

Bottom line is there will always be responsible and irresponsible breeders, doesn't matter if you're talking about physical defects, hybridization, or morphs.

Actually I have 1 more thing to add.

Want to talk about irresponsible? How about people who sell Poss. Hets without labelling them as such? It's a nice suprise to some, but others with serious projects in mind? That's a wrench in the gears to them.

The problem I see with hybrids is many times they result in health issues resulting in skeletal, behavioral and organ deformities. I have seen a liger in person at a big cat rescue and it has a kinds of problems. That would be my only concern. I hope you dont see any of these problems with your project.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by azpythons

and i would breed them because...i like them....


wow...simply wow ;) this guys a moron

(there beat you to it!!)

---

how im i a moron??? because im doing something i like.... everyone that has reptiles has them because of their love for that type of reptile, know matter what it is... even if thats a hybrid or a normal ball.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AaronP

Actually I have 1 more thing to add.

Want to talk about irresponsible? How about people who sell Poss. Hets without labelling them as such? It's a nice suprise to some, but others with serious projects in mind? That's a wrench in the gears to them.

---

I would love....LOVE to see one person who bought a Poss Het as a normal that was mad about it......