New 20 gallon tank setup for my growing ball

Still pretty new to herps, have had my 0.1 baby ball for about 6 months now and just this weekend upgraded her from a small 10 gallon tank to a 20 gallon since I have more room now. I hope I'm not doing anything wrong or have it too cluttered but I don't think so and she's much more active now than before.

Items:

-Zilla 20 Gallon glass terrarium $60
-Zoo Med 10-20 gallon UTH $20
-2 large Mac log hides $16
-All Living Things 20 gallon tropical terrarium setup $28
-Doggie dish $6
-Repti Temp 500R Tstat $25
-Acurite digital thermometer $12

Total = $167 but I already had the thermometer and tstat so only $130.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...w/100_0683.jpg

I have the UTH under the hide to the right in the picture for the hotside and another identical hide for her on the other side to cool off. She loves climbing all over the stuff in there and the plants give her some cover to the hide openings for more security. Now hopefully she'll eat better, she's been having issues lately with that but I think its because she was getting too cooped up.

those log hides are not ideal for her. she will not feel secure in them they are to open.

nice very nice wish i could add that much stuff to mine. but with the half logs get ride of them like said in another post bps like dark small hides

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

those log hides are not ideal for her. she will not feel secure in them they are to open.

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I agree...an active bp is not always a happy bp. Bps will hide during the day and explore at night. If he is active during the day it is probally stressed out. Setup looks good except the hides. Stress could be coming from that or the move. I would suggest closed hides.

I agree, if he isnt eating he is stressed. it could be the hides.

If the ball is not eating, it could be a couple things.

The log hides are not secure at all, nor are they tight. A 20 gallon may be too large yet for that young bp and it may feel insecure in such a big area. And finally, it doesn't seem that your cage is cluttered enough for a ball python. Add some more fake plants around the sides of the hides for more security. It may not be ready to upgrade yet though. I don't recommend young ball pythons ever being in a 20 gallon for at least 2 years or almost fully grown. :gj:

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Now hopefully she'll eat better, she's been having issues lately with that but I think its because she was getting too cooped up.

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You have the wrong idea. Ball pythons are almost never too cooped up. Its just the opposite. They want a small, cozy, and tight environment. I have most of my juveniles (some over a year old, but that one is small for his age) still in a 15qt tub and feeding regularly. When I moved my original ball who didn't eat for 4 months out of the 20 gallon and into a 15qt, he ate right after settling in.

was the tank just setup when you took the pic? that temp of 68 is way to low. you might want to bump that up to 80-85

I'd just misted it so the temp dropped, the ambient air temp hangs around mid 70s inside the tank usually but can't go any higher since it is in the bedroom. The hotside is 94+ as you can see. When I haven't misted and I check the cool side with a laser it is high 70s right on top of the substrate.

The title is misleading I suppose, she is not really a baby anymore and over 2 feet long at this point. I've only HAD her for 6 months, no idea if she is like 8 months or closer to a year. Probably somewhere in between. I DO have the small half logs left over from before that she can still get into but she gets so squeezed in there I am afraid she gets wedged in there. I work evenings and when I come home around 1 AM, I don't go right to sleep so I'd know if she was out at night. About a month ago she just stopped coming out of her hides at night all of a sudden. For the last 3 nights since I changed out the tank and given her some room she's been coming out regularly, swimming, climbing around and then going back to sleep. She slept all day today and I'm hoping to see her out tonight when I get home from work.

I also don't want to move her back to the small enclosure as I couldn't get a big enough water dish in there for good humitidy levels. Plus she loves taking dunks in it and she couldn't before in the smaller dish in the small tank. I know I am a newb and am probably talking out of my ass but to me she just seems so much happier now. If you all think I should still put a different type of hide in there what should I use? Something from a hardware store like a plant container or painted tupperware or what? I can go get some more fake plants to strew around and whatnot also.

Also with the feeding thing, she went off feed right around the same time she stopped coming out of her hides. I haven't tried feeding her since I changed her setup but I will tomorrow before I go to work or the next day. Stupid thing only takes mice anyways and only very small ones at that when she will eat. I should have got a boa lol.

mid 70's are way to cool for ambient temps. You want to shoot for around 80-85. This could be part of the refusal.

Have you checked your snake for mites? Ball pythons don't soak, so the fact that she is in there often makes me think she might have them.

My snakes RARELY come out of their hides, even at night. They are both excellent feeders. I find that when they are in their hide, that means that they are happy and comfortable in their surroundings. I don't think you should be concerned if she is cruising at night though. She still might be looking for a way out.

How have you been feeding her before the move?
I would still get different hides. The half logs don't cut it. And no, she won't get stuck in them.

I've been feeding her in a large rubbermaid tub on FT with tongs. She had no issues eating before about a month ago. There are no mites that I can see on her anywhere, she is nice and clean. I'm thinking of getting the reptile-basics hides. I think I need the medium size ones since the smalls say they were made for hatchlings and the meds say up to 1200 grams.

How should I get the temps up higher on the other side? Heating lamp with a ceramic element or something else? Last time I used a heating lamp it got way too hot for her.

Carefull for the CHE, it WILL take away from the Hum. Does mine.

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Originally Posted by ScottyDsntKnow

I've been feeding her in a large rubbermaid tub on FT with tongs. She had no issues eating before about a month ago. There are no mites that I can see on her anywhere, she is nice and clean. I'm thinking of getting the reptile-basics hides. I think I need the medium size ones since the smalls say they were made for hatchlings and the meds say up to 1200 grams.

How should I get the temps up higher on the other side? Heating lamp with a ceramic element or something else? Last time I used a heating lamp it got way too hot for her.

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Now we are talking.

Feed her in her enclosure. Zombie mouse dance it in front of her hide, if she doesn't take it in a few minutes, heat up the head in hot water and leave it just outside her door. Some people would leave a F/T there overnight to get a problem feeder to eat, you could try that.

As for raising the temps, you could get another UTH and put it on the other side of the tank. Then get a dimmer for this and dim it down to 80-85 degrees. Still plug it into the thermostat, just plug the dimmer into the thermo and then the UTH into that.

You could also try a CHE and do a similar thing. Stick it on a dimmer do it doesn't get too hot.

Wait, everything I've read says to feed them in a separate tank so you can still handle them safely. I'm so confused now lol.

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Originally Posted by ScottyDsntKnow

Wait, everything I've read says to feed them in a separate tank so you can still handle them safely. I'm so confused now lol.

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Disregard it, it won't make a difference. I have done both and either way I can handle them with no risk of being bit (Unless I rub my hand in mouse before hand and its feeding day). Most likely, moving to the seperate container will just stress her out more. It might not have before, but maybe she changed her mind!

some times i feed in a seperate tank 20G thats unused right now, i put in a hide and let him sit in it. then i introduce the fuzzie or hoppers and wait within 10 min he is out and strikes. i clean his tank while he heats. never had him strike at me once. ive even had him take it from my hand hold it by the tail and ive also had him strike while hanging off my hand nail the hopper and ball up like a knot on it.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

some times i feed in a seperate tank 20G thats unused right now, i put in a hide and let him sit in it. then i introduce the fuzzie or hoppers and wait within 10 min he is out and strikes. i clean his tank while he heats. never had him strike at me once. ive even had him take it from my hand hold it by the tail and ive also had him strike while hanging off my hand nail the hopper and ball up like a knot on it.

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This method is fine, but if you have a problem feeder, chances are if everything else is spot on, that its because of the moving back and forth. I don't move my BP's whatsoever 36 hours after feeding. I don't want to risk a regurge. I found that feeding in a separate container was just more time consuming.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

This method is fine, but if you have a problem feeder, chances are if everything else is spot on, that its because of the moving back and forth. I don't move my BP's whatsoever 36 hours after feeding. I don't want to risk a regurge. I found that feeding in a separate container was just more time consuming.

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well what i do is after he is done eating and still in his feeding mode and sniffing around thats when i xfer him back to his enclosure. but usually what happens is he retreats back to his hide and then i just pick it up and place it back in his viv and let him leave and move on to his other hide or something els on his own.

I do want to bump the ambient temps up in the whole tank so I guess CHE it is? I'll go get a rheostat for it to keep the temps steady and sit it on top of the screen. I'm just worried about the humidity. Can I use moss in this tank without it messing anything up in any way? I really do need to enclose the top screen with plastic wrap to keep the humidity in.

The CHE will eat the humidity. When I put moss in an enclosure, I usually put it in some kind of dish so it doesn't make a huge mess. I just make sure that it is moist every day. Putting this by her warm side hide box should help.

For the screen treatment, I would use a layer of tin foil and then duct tape over that. I did this on my glass tank and it works well.

I run a 50watt infrared 24/7 misted down twice a day with moss. Try that for humidity, does wonders.

ive had no problems with ambient temps in the upper 70's

just mt 2 cents

Well, I am off to get a rheostat and a CHE along with some moss. I ordered two medium sized hide boxes from reptile basics last night so hopefully they get here before the weekend. I'll make a new thread with the new setup when I get it all together.

be sure not to tape your snake. :P

Switch to a tub. So much easier to keep temps, humidity, and to clean.

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Originally Posted by DSGB

Switch to a tub. So much easier to keep temps, humidity, and to clean.

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Maybe so, but some prefer a viv. looks better to the eye.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

Maybe so, but some prefer a viv. looks better to the eye.

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I am in the same boat! Althogh I do have a felling my collection will be growing by leaps and bounds here in the near future. Then I WILL have to move to a rack system.

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Originally Posted by scales owner

I am in the same boat! Althogh I do have a felling my collection will be growing by leaps and bounds here in the near future. Then I WILL have to move to a rack system.

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I will probably keep hatch lings in a rack (when i get a female and breed next year) and keep the mom and dad in a viv

Well I got the CHE today and some moss. Foiled the top of the tank and cut a circular hole out where I put the lamp. Hopefully the screen doesn't sag although it is metal so it should be ok. Lamp is on a $10 dimmer from home cheapo. As soon as the hides come in I'm switching them out.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...w/100_0684.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...w/100_0685.jpg

It'll be a few hours before I get the dimmer in a sweet spot but its definitely not too hot. Needs to go up a few more degrees as you can see. Also that foil cover and the moss is keeping the humidity way up so she should be happier now.

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Originally Posted by ScottyDsntKnow

Well, I am off to get a rheostat and a CHE along with some moss. I ordered two medium sized hide boxes from reptile basics last night so hopefully they get here before the weekend. I'll make a new thread with the new setup when I get it all together.

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Good choice!
;)

Definitely feed in the enclosure like Kaorte has been saying. Your actually more likely to get bitten or cause a regurgitation when feeding in a separate enclosure. :gj:

looks good! i have to redo the foil on my enclosure yet AGAIN as i have ruined it last night lol

One thing I need to see, is if that damn expensive CHE element is actually doing its job or not. I am half tempted to return it and just use an infared heating light instead. After a few hours it didn't seem like the temps were coming up very much but I'll give it some time. It was at 77 degrees when I went to work today.

And feeding in the enclosure is going to make it a TON easier to feed her actually. So what I just do the zombie dance in front of the door to whatever enclosure she is in and wait for her to strike out of it? I'm just worried I won't be able to tell which hide she is in without moving it and disturbing her. I'll just have to make sure I position the door of one of them so I can see in there...

Looking good... just a few suggestions:

1 - insulate the back and sides of the tank. It REALLY helps with keeping ambient temps up. :) My house stays around 70 in winter but with the foam board insulation my tank ambient temps are around 75, higher with a lamp.

2 - raise that lamp! It's not that the screen would melt (though it may warp with a CHE), but that the direct heat will suck the tank dry. Any lamp used, for temp boosts or viewing, should be raised at least 6" above the top. I hang mine from a hook in the ceiling with chain or cord. :)

3 - get another water dish that's wide and shallow! That bowl is way too deep. If you really need the big dish for humidity, then it should be nice and wide, but no deeper than 1-2".

4 - get a thermostat ASAP. Rheostats are only good when your room temp stays the same all the time. The dimmer for the lamp is good, but you'll want a more reliable control for the UTH.

Since you're getting new hides, everything else seems to be in order. :) Sorry I didn't see this thread till now...

Looks good but I would change hides. :gj::gj:

The UTH is on a repti-temp 500R. I've seen lots of doggie dishes like that in tanks... I guess I can get something different if it is really a problem. I know there are repti rocks at petsmart that fit the bill but they are $20.

The hook with a chain thing is a pretty good idea actually but then the foil is blocking the heat from going in right?

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

Looks good but I would change hides. :gj::gj:

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Lol read the thread.

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Originally Posted by ScottyDsntKnow

The UTH is on a repti-temp 500R. I've seen lots of doggie dishes like that in tanks... I guess I can get something different if it is really a problem. I know there are repti rocks at petsmart that fit the bill but they are $20.

The hook with a chain thing is a pretty good idea actually but then the foil is blocking the heat from going in right?

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Ok, the ZooMed stat is a good one to have until you can afford better. :) I have 4 of them and they're still going strong after a year.

As for the dish, cat dishes are better than dog since they're shallower. Also, the plastic drip trays for plant pots work well if you put a nice big smooth stone or other heavy decor inside it to weigh it down.

When hanging the lamp, make sure it hangs right over the opening so the heat can get in. The foil then keeps the heat in the tank from rising out again. Even if ALL the heat from the bulb isn't going directly into the tank, it still heats the area around it, raising the ambient temps. Just don't forget about insulating the back and sides, as that really helps. :)

I'll see about hanging the lamp up soon. After running it all day today and not having misted since noon yesterday the humidity level is still in the upper 60s. I attribute this to the moss. I'll look at cat dishes next time I go by petsmart, I really don't feel like spending $20 for a big repti rock water dish. Maybe I'll look online some more.

Reptile basics hides get here tomorrow and I'm debating on whether I want to paint them with some krylon stone texture paint(all krylon paints are non toxic when dry) or just leave them as is.