hybrids crosses

hey all
im dan im from australia and i was just wondering if anyone is working on any pure lines of carpets or is it all just crosses in australia it is illegal to cross sub species together also do all jags have that twitching problem if so why keep breeding a retarded animal that keeps producing problem animals? i am curious as jags and hybrid debate over here is getting nasty mostly against though

There are a lot of people doing pure lines. However, crossing for a nice trait is also common. Subspecies cross is something I personally don't like, but many people do.
The twitching comes from a neurological disease from all the genetic mutation for the jag trait, a double recessive gene. Most with obvious twitch are euthanized. There is also a symptom of that snake being laid on its back and not being able to flip back over. Those are also put down in most cases.


Just a side note, your post was very difficult to read because of the lack of punctuation.

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Originally Posted by DavidG

There are a lot of people doing pure lines. However, crossing for a nice trait is also common. Subspecies cross is something I personally don't like, but many people do.
The twitching comes from a neurological disease from all the genetic mutation for the jag trait, a double recessive gene. Most with obvious twitch are euthanized. There is also a symptom of that snake being laid on its back and not being able to flip back over. Those are also put down in most cases.


Just a side note, your post was very difficult to read because of the lack of punctuation.

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Hahaha there was ONE question mark David....geez :D



Im a big fan of pure bloodlines, and no sub species crossing. Does that mean I will never own a Diamond Jag.....prolly not, but I will never breed one.

i going to go out on a limb here and guess that the number of jags that have had to be culled due to neurological impairments could be counted on one, maybe two hands.
it's not even a twitch, it's just a lack of motor control to varying degrees. they are not nearly as bad as all the spinning spider balls... bottom line, don't believe the hype.

as far as pure bloodlines... there are plenty of breeders who breed them. it's just more difficult because of australia's retarded laws.

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Originally Posted by pythondan

hey all
im dan im from australia and i was just wondering if anyone is working on any pure lines of carpets or is it all just crosses in australia it is illegal to cross sub species together also do all jags have that twitching problem if so why keep breeding a retarded animal that keeps producing problem animals? i am curious as jags and hybrid debate over here is getting nasty mostly against though

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Well Dan a Nasty debate on purity has been going on in Oz, and is nothing new so I am surprised you said its getting nasty. See we don't have the privilege of access to wild stock so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone over there that there are very very few breeders with any sort of verifiable pure stock. Now as to our retarded Jags the reason we keep breeding retarded animals is to try to diversify the jag gene to strengthen it, and maybe be able to eliminate the wobble which is hit and miss in the Jag gene, there have been many animals with the wobble who have had offspring that had no sign of this neurological problem. The purity debate is played out here and to stir the pot isn't really going to accomplish anything but if you are still curious why we breed retarded animal after this post feel free to let me know and I will try to explain my self better. :)

so not all jags have that neurological problem, i was under the impression they all had it. i think there are a lot of nice crosses but its not natural a bredli cant mate with a diamond in the wild coastal and diamond do and some say jungle and coastal do aswell but were still not allowed to mix em.
what's wrong with that ball python mentioned ? i wish we could have balls,bloods,kings,corns and so many others
Dan

I see you have a Olive, I wish we could get out hands on those!

The spider ball (google) is a morph that is prone to head shakes and other neuro issues. People compare them because it's the double recessive gene coming out that makes this happen.

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Originally Posted by DavidG

I see you have a Olive, I wish we could get out hands on those!

The spider ball (google) is a morph that is prone to head shakes and other neuro issues. People compare them because it's the double recessive gene coming out that makes this happen.

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David can you explain what you mean by double recessive gene. Both jags and spiders are co-dom morphs the super for of the jag gene is lethal for sure and I would guess the same is also true for spiders. I guess I don't understand that you are meaning by double recessive in this case.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

David can you explain what you mean by double recessive gene. Both jags and spiders are co-dom morphs the super for of the jag gene is lethal for sure and I would guess the same is also true for spiders. I guess I don't understand that you are meaning by double recessive in this case.

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I too would like your explanation of a double recessive gene. As Chuck has stated, both the jag and spider ball are co-dom traits that have either a lethal super or one that has not been produced yet. The theory is that the spider also has a lethal white super and hence why none have been produced.
And just FYI, we do have olives here. If you are interested in some, I can direct you in the right direction.

Misinformation, sorry. I was under the impression that if both parents possessed the recessive gene it would be more dominant in the offspring. I thought it took 2 parents to pass the neuro gene down. Again, take what's on the web with a grain of salt.

what is a morph?

a morph is basically damaged genes that natural selection can't quite cull... a hiccup in the DNA. so how does nature attempt to get rid of them? by attaching potentially lethal or damaging genes to them. the only reason most of the morphs we see today can survive is because they're in captivity.
we just happen to see the novelty in breeding animals to display these hidden traits... thus you see some problems. there are a ton of Ball morphs out there that have their own issues (as well as other snakes), but the breeders DO NOT TELL YOU because it'd simply hurt their sales and the view of morphs in general.

i love coastal jags, always will... most of the people that talk crap about them have never even held one, seen one in person, etc - let alone keep them and breed them.

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Originally Posted by DavidG

Misinformation, sorry. I was under the impression that if both parents possessed the recessive gene it would be more dominant in the offspring. I thought it took 2 parents to pass the neuro gene down. Again, take what's on the web with a grain of salt.

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ya that isn't how it works in the slightest. I would check out Nerds site they have a section on basic genetics which would be helpful to you.

Chuck