New tank setup

Hey everyone, just signed up a few days ago. I've been trying to get a tank setup, but, of course, I'm running into some heating problems. I was given a 55 gallon tank for free, so I'm using that. The top of the tank is separated into two halves, each 24 inches. I found a nice aquarium hood with a florescent light for daytime light/viewing (adds very little heat). So that takes up the one side. For the other, I bought a 150w infrared heat lamp to put in the clamp light fixture I got for free. This fixture is sitting on a plastic/wire mesh top (24") that came with it. I also have a medium sized UTH with no thermostat. I used an acu-rite thermo to see what the temps are and the side with the heat lamp is going to ~105F and the cool side is at about 75F. The humidity is at 80%, but that's because the eco earth is still drying out, almost done though. Anyway, 82 cool side, 92 warm side is what I'm supposed to be seeing, so I was thinking I would take the infrared heat lamp back and get a 100W che. Can I put a che on a rheostat(plug in dimmer)? Having that red light on all night doesn't appeal to me as much now that I've seen how bright it is. So what about the cool side? 76 is pretty cool and it's about that temp all the way until the middle of the tank. I was thinking I would just insulate the back and one side. But, I can't think of anything that would look good and do a good job of keeping the heat in. Any ideas? Any suggestions about anything are welcome. This is my first attempt to setup a snake enclosure.

Here's a pic...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5...1921308uy1.jpg

how are you measuring your temps?

also best bet is a thermostat or rheostat and use 2 UTH one for the cool side and one for the warm side. then dial them in with there own thermostat or rheostat

if your having trouble with ambient air temp get a ceramic heat emitter to keep the ambient air temp around 80*F.

with a tank that big your going to have some bad humidity issues with a heat lamp im thinking.

in my thread earlier there were some great suggestions check it out. its about a bad shed but turned into cage setup.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=84887

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

how are you measuring your temps?

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On the picture, you can see the two temps I wrote on there. the 76F side is measured with a flukers therm/hygro, which is placed on the substrate. The 105F side is being measured with an acu-rite probe that is laying on top of the substrate.

Why not put the Heat Light on the other side. As in switch it so that heat lamp and UTH are on opposite ends. Then cover any remaining screen with plexiglass or styrofoam or whatever. Make sure to get a rheostat, dimmer, thermostat for the heat sources. Hope that solves your problem :)

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Originally Posted by Appolion

On the picture, you can see the two temps I wrote on there. the 76F side is measured with a flukers therm/hygro, which is placed on the substrate. The 105F side is being measured with an acu-rite probe that is laying on top of the substrate.

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yah i totally missed that, sorry.

1. you absolutely NEED a thermostat or a dimmer for the UTH.

2.55 gal is WAY to big. I would find something like plexiglass to divide the tank in half. You can gradually increase the size as the snake grows.

When using the accurite thermometer, make sure to put it directly on the glass above the UTH. You need to be measuring the closest spot that the snake could possible get to in order to avoid cooking your snake.

When you split the tank in half, you can put the light (or CHE) on the opposite end of the UTH to maintain a higher ambient temp (which will be easier with the tank split). You probably won't have a humidity problem with that substrate as long as you mist once a day. I personally use aspen as a substrate and it works great. It is easy to clean, absorbs moisture, keeps the smell down and looks great. You might consider switching :D. I just don't see the appeal in cleaning a cage full of dirt, lol.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

yah i totally missed that, sorry.

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No problem :)

So a che can be put on a rheostat? A che would be better for sucking less humidity than a heat lamp, correct?

CHE will suck as much humidity as the lamp. It doesn't really matter. CHE's can be put on a dimmer as far as I know.

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Originally Posted by Appolion

No problem :)

So a che can be put on a rheostat? A che would be better for sucking less humidity than a heat lamp, correct?

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you can get a cheap lamp dimmer from wal-mart plugs into the outlet then you plug the CHE into it. ive been told this works for regulating the che temperature.


almost forgot, CHE will draw away as much humidity as the lamp. its pulling the cool humid air up an out any heat source up on the rack of your cage will do this.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

1. you absolutely NEED a thermostat or a dimmer for the UTH.

2.55 gal is WAY to big. I would find something like plexiglass to divide the tank in half. You can gradually increase the size as the snake grows.

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I bought a bunch of plants from the dollar store and I have wood and two hides that aren't put in the tank yet. You'd think a 20" BP would be good in a 55 with lots of foliage/wood. idk

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Originally Posted by Appolion

I bought a bunch of plants from the dollar store and I have wood and two hides that aren't put in the tank yet. You'd think a 20" BP would be good in a 55 with lots of foliage/wood. idk

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A full grown ball python can live happily in a 20 gallon long. 30 gallon long max.

You are already having problems with keeping the temps up. Why deal with all the hassle? Trust me, it is going to be a pain in the but t keep temps up in that huge thing.

Technically they can do fine in a 55 gal if they have TONS and I mean TONS of folliage and hides. But temp is really going to be an issue.

Yea lamps work with dimmers. At least mine does :D
Umm 55gal is rather big. You will need more hides, more water etc... It really isn't worth it. Your python will be stressed and so will you with all the extra work.

I switched the lamp to the other side and the temps are at 86 on the cool side with the UTH and 101 on the side with the heat lamp. I do plan on getting rheostats for the heat sources tomorrow. It's been on my list since the start. I'll take the 150W heat lamp back and get either a 100W heat lamp or a 100W che.

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Originally Posted by Appolion

I switched the lamp to the other side and the temps are at 86 on the cool side with the UTH and 101 on the side with the heat lamp. I do plan on getting rheostats for the heat sources tomorrow. It's been on my list since the start. I'll take the 150W heat lamp back and get either a 100W heat lamp or a 100W che.

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get the CHE and use the light built in the tank for viewing if the heat lamp is going to bother you at night that is.

Do you have a heat source for the cool end at night?

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Originally Posted by ohyeahnow

Do you have a heat source for the cool end at night?

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Not yet. Would a small sized UTH work for that? Then I could put the che in the middle of the tank for ambient temps. Do you think a 100w che would be overkill for ambient temps? or maybe a 75. and yes, it'll be on a rheostat.

I have an aquarium with two UTH's but you will need two t-stats and two dual thermometers. I have a night light (red) mounted over the hot end and attatched to the hot sides t-stat. You will need to cover the top. I used reflectix which keeps heat and humidity in.

http://photos-h.ll.facebook.com/phot...73799_2970.jpg

We set our snakes up in a hundred gallon tank and they love it. Get moss its great for the humidity.

I may be new to snakes, but I've never understood why people seem to think the bare minimum (or close to it) is "the best" for the welfare of the snake. A 55 gallon, which measures 48x13x22, is not that much bigger than a 20L, 30, or 40. 20L is stretching it, but the rest are fairly close... I'm trying to make this tank as natural as I can. I find it hard to think that just because my tank is a little bigger than most, I'll have a stressed out snake.

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I may be new to snakes, but I've never understood why people seem to think the bare minimum (or close to it) is "the best" for the welfare of the snake.

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here is one reason: (from wikipedia)

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Favored retreats include mammal burrows and other underground hiding places where they also. aestivate

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the other reasons are its easier to maintain healthy temps, humidity and cleaning in a smaller cage.

Ball pythons love small and tight spaces. they are easily overwhelmed by large enclosures. If you provide a good number of hides and add lots of foliage, the security aspect shouldn't be a ploblem, but just think about the amount of stuff you will have to clean.

Yes, the size isn't much different, but mostly that cage has a lot of height, which will never be used by this ground dwelling snake. So its just wasted space that you still need to heat properly.


Kevin hornby: Do you have multiple snakes in that enclosure?

A large tank does not automatically equal a stressed ball python.

In caparison to a smaller tank, a large tank is harder to maintain temperatures, humidity, and the sense of security.

Temperature, humidity, and the sense of security can all be provided properly with the proper equipment and care. It is essentially a the same as a smaller tank, but on a larger scale, which is more difficult and more expensive; therefore less popular.

In the wild, ball pythons live in small abandoned rodent burrows, but they have the choice to move from one hiding place to another as they like. This a reason why some owners wish to provide their snake with a large enclosure.

Just because a ball python does really well is a small enclosures, that does not mean, it has to be in a small one. There are plenty of experienced owners on the site who can tell you that they have large enclosures with no problems. At the end of the day, every ball python and every owner is different, there are general rules for the keeping of ball pythons, but they are not set in concrete.

It is really discouraging when new owners sign on to this site, and people tell them to get ride of some of the things they own or just bought. Instead you can make more reasonable and kind suggestions, in this case: A large enclosure will be harder to maintain, but that does not mean it cannot be done.

We have 4 snakes in our tank currently. 2 female het albinos, a male het pied and a baby female cinnamon.

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Originally Posted by Kevin_Hornby

We have 4 snakes in our tank currently. 2 female het albinos, a male het pied and a baby female cinnamon.

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I hope you know that is NOT OKAY.

And why is that "Not OK"?

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Originally Posted by Kevin_Hornby

And why is that "Not OK"?

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Well if you don't know, then obviously you don't know very much about ball pythons.

You should NEVER EVER house ball pythons together unless they are breeding. Which surely yours are not. Ball pythons are solitary animals and become extremely stressed when housed with other ball pythons. Also, if one gets sick, all 4 get sick. If one has mites, they all have mites. Then you have to pay for 4 sick snakes as opposed to just one.

Taken from the ball python FAQ:
It is possible to do so, yes. But it is NOT a recommended practice. Snakes are not social creatures and it is stressful for them to live together. What may appear to be 'cuddling' is in fact the snakes competing for the best parts of the cage. Aside from the stress factor, snakes living in the same enclosure are free to share parasites and diseases with each other. This also makes it more difficult to figure out which one is sick if you notice abnormal stool, for instance.

What possessed you to put them all together?

OK seriously, ball pythons are perfectly fine to live together. I don't know where you've gotten your information, but please read up on the following sites.

http://www.vareptilerescue.org/ballpyth.html
http://www.kingsnake.com/ballpythonguide/

If you talk to any breeder they will tell you that ball pythons can live quite happily together. My snakes rarely miss a meal and usually eat twice a week. There is enough room inside of the tank for them to be quite happy wherever they wish to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevin_Hornby

OK seriously, ball pythons are perfectly fine to live together. I don't know where you've gotten your information, but please read up on the following sites.

http://www.vareptilerescue.org/ballpyth.html
http://www.kingsnake.com/ballpythonguide/

If you talk to any breeder they will tell you that ball pythons can live quite happily together. My snakes rarely miss a meal and usually eat twice a week. There is enough room inside of the tank for them to be quite happy wherever they wish to be.

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wow. just wow.

I've got to ask. How did you become this guru of information on ball pythons owning 2?

I am no guru, but I bet if you ask anyone on here they will all give you the same answer. You CANNOT house ball pythons together.
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...housing+snakes

:/

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing

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Originally Posted by Kevin_Hornby

I've got to ask. How did you become this guru of information on ball pythons owning 2?

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This is a friendly forum where we share knowledge about herps; we do not judge other members on how many herps they own.

Secondly, personal herp keeping experience is not the only factor when it comes to the knowledge about them. There are plenty of owners with a large amount of herps, and do not know enough about reptiles and thus mistreat their herps due to ignorance. On the other hand, there are owners, who have done the proper research and who own very few herps, but provide them with the care and environment they need.

and thirdly there are people that can't give advice without a kind tone to their post.
Kaorte, you said he CANNOT keep two together. It's not advised, but it's proven you can do it. Like zhang said, this is a friendly forum.

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Originally Posted by grammie

and thirdly there are people that can't give advice without a kind tone to their post.
Kaorte, you said he CANNOT keep two together. It's not advised, but it's proven you can do it. Like zhang said, this is a friendly forum.

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Yes he can keep them together, but it is highly advised not to. I should correct myself: In my personal opinion (and the opinion of many others on this forum) you should not house bal pythons together unless for breeding purposes.

now see how much nicer that sounded? I know you're trying to help, but people never want to take advice if they are being put down at the same time.

I personally would recommend separate tanks for each one but if it's working and you've got it down more power to you.

To the OP, you can make a 55 gallon work without cluster bombing it. Trust me I did it w/ Furio who when I brought him home was 13" and he's in a 40 gallon breeder. It can be done and it's really not all that difficult.

Cover one side with a UTH set for your size tank, I think I have a large one?
Next get a thermostat to control the temps. Since it's under the glass and needs to warm through it mines set to about 102.7 to get the temp of 94.
Get 2 identical hides one for the warm side and one for the cool. I run a 50w infrared light 24/7 place above where his water dish sits (to aid in humidity) and some beaked moss that I spray 2x a day to keep humidity at 55% unless he's going into shed then I bump it up to around 65. I also have a large half log in there that he likes to crawl around on.

That's just my setup but remember people, there's about 1000 different ways to keeping your snakes. Many of them are proven if you have the devotion to making it all right and in the best interest of your pet.

Good luck with the new snake buddy!

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I hope you know that is NOT OKAY.

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You really seem set in your ways. :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by eulenspiegel

here is one reason: (from wikipedia)



the other reasons are its easier to maintain healthy temps, humidity and cleaning in a smaller cage.

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I'm in no rush whatsoever when it comes to getting my snake. Don't get me wrong, I can't wait. But, making sure that when I get it, it has a well maintained (humidity, temps, security, etc.) tank is priority #1. I want it to be happy in the tank I envisioned, so I'll wait a bit longer and make sure it's done correctly. Sure, maybe I'll have to clean it up a bit longer and everything, but that's fine with me. If it does become too much, all I have to do is add a plexi separator and walla, it's a smaller tank.

I put a piece of plexi under the aquarium hood, which will be weighed down. The other side top is going to be two pieces of plexi with a piece of wire mesh in the middle so I can put the light on it. I threw that old screen away, my design will work and look much better Secured with aquarium sealant of course. I also added a UTH to the cool side and changed the light to a 100w che. Temps were looking good and I added rheostats to the UHT and have one for the che. Is it ok to use a dimmer with a che? The dimmer instructions say just incandescent and halogen. Would this be considered a fire hazard by any means? One more thing, the space between the two pieces of plexi with the mesh will be wrapped with foil to keep heat in since it's kind of a big tank. I'll leave a little room around the light or maybe around the side of the top to allow enough air flow.
I'll post pics when I'm done with it tomorrow night or monday night. Should be awesome. My BP will be in around tuesday!!! But I can pick it up when I'm ready. I'm so excited, but there's a lot of work to do making sure temps and humidity are correct and will remain consistent. Especially after I add all the plants, wood, hides, and water bowl. I can't wait

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I am no guru, but I bet if you ask anyone on here they will all give you the same answer. You CANNOT house ball pythons together.
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...hlight=housing
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...housing+snakes

:/

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One more thing, if you guys want to talk about housing multiple snakes together, could you please do it in another thread? I'll even make it for you if you want. :P




V1L3 DiaL3cT-

Nice name for your snake. Did you get it from Sopranos? I really enjoy that show :)

oops, lost connection there...

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Originally Posted by Kevin_Hornby

If you talk to any breeder they will tell you that ball pythons can live quite happily together. .

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do you really wanna take that challenge?

BTW, be careful about putting your heat lamp over top of plexi-glass as it is just plastic it can/will melt if the heat source is to close.

Appolian : Yes, Furio from the Soprano's.

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Originally Posted by Kevin_Hornby

BTW, be careful about putting your heat lamp over top of plexi-glass as it is just plastic it can/will melt if the heat source is to close.

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I put some mesh between the plexi where the light is.
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8...5091328ol4.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1...5091329zz4.jpg
The mesh will be wrapped with something. Regular aluminum foil will work, right?

its looking good.

did you get a 30-50 gal UTH for the hot side? and a 10-20gal for the cold? im just going by ur drawing size. thats all. but as long as u keep the ambient temps up it should be a good start at a decent cage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

its looking good.

did you get a 30-50 gal UTH for the hot side? and a 10-20gal for the cold? im just going by ur drawing size. thats all. but as long as u keep the ambient temps up it should be a good start at a decent cage

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Ya the piece I marked in the picture is very close to where they are and size they are. The bigger one goes from the little black mark in the wood to the back. I think it's 10x11".

it looks good, i would place at least one hide close to both UTH so he has one cooler thermal regulated hide and one warmer one. since BP's don't really bask and during the day the hides is where they will be most of the time.

to make you BP feel safe in that large tank your going to need to fill that tank with allot fo stuff he can hid in and generally feel unexposed in. such as some plants and sticks, fake vines with leaves. and then you should be set.