primates

does anyone on here keep primates?

i keep a few species
common marmosets
geoffroy's marmys
pygmy marmys
cotton top tamarins
and one hand reared ringtailed lemur (which is like my second daughter)

I personally don't agree with keeping primates as "pets". Captives, if they are properly housed with others for company and properly fed as well. But the whole "monkey as subsitute child" thing is just awful.
I do assist on occasion at a local monkey rescue, and half the monkeys are from labs, and the other half were pets. The owners tried to treat them as pets, and when they got older they turned into monkeys. It's very sad when people don't take proper care of them, feeding them poor diets, keeping them in small cages, or trying to force them to be little children instead of magnificent animals.
I hope yours are happy guys.

i agree with you about owners dont know what they are getting themselves into when they buy a monkey and many are mistreated i see this all the time.

they are very hard animals to look after properly. i myself have done many years research and have kept them for about 8 years now ive still loads to learn ill admit that lol.

all my primates are kept in family groups in large enclosures and all have the proper diet,heating,uv light etc and are happy healthy and breeding every year, i have all the correct paper work and insurances need to keep them (i dont sell them) i even have the local zoo vet on speed dial

as for my lemur, ive wanted one for years and came across her she was rejected at birth so i reared her, she is now a year old she goes everywhere with me my family have also bonded with her and she just thinks shes one of the family (spoilt rotten so she is) she is sitting beside me as im typing this, love her to bits

We have 5 ring-tailed Lemurs, all of them hand raised, and our two youngest we use for educational purposes. Kids get to feed them treats (apples, lettuce, sweet potatoes, and on very rare occasions, marshmellows) and while we have them harnessed they can pet them.

While I agree that the average joe schmoe should not be allowed to keep primates, I do think that people should be allowed to keep them as pets. To me, it's no different than keeping a tiger, bear, coatimundi, roo's or any other exotic. You have to know the species intimately and their behavior in the wild in order to keep them happy in captivity. Like falconry, I would really like to see a period of internship of 2 years to be required before you can purchase/adopt any exotic species as a pet, that way you can see the difference of behavior in juveniles and adults. Also, so people can be taught the 'right' way to raise an exotic. They are not supposed to be your children, nor should they ever be considered as one. They can be dangerous. All it takes is one little thing to set them off, and they can a.) turn on you, or b.) injure you in the process of getting away. Most people who don't work with exotics have a hard time grasping this concept. They don't behave like dogs and cats that have been domesticated over THOUSANDS of years. They might exhibit that behavior from time to time, but they are NOT here simply for our pleasure. I think I should probably step down from my soapbox before I get too carried away.

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Originally Posted by reptile ni

as for my lemur, ive wanted one for years and came across her she was rejected at birth so i reared her, she is now a year old she goes everywhere with me my family have also bonded with her and she just thinks shes one of the family (spoilt rotten so she is) she is sitting beside me as im typing this, love her to bits

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I'd start watching your female lemur's behavior very closely from hear on out. our females start showing aggression between 1-2 years of age. Generally the adults only bond with one person, and will 'mob' anyone else that gets close. Does your girl still have her baby fangs? Those are VERY nasty, and can leave some impressive scars. We have a neutered male that's 2. We are taking him to our exotic vet this weekend to remove his adult fangs. As he's getting older, we've noticed that his tolerance towards children is wearing thin. Just something about kid's big eye to face ration that makes him think that they're challenging them is starting to upset him *shrug*.

Why would you have the lemur's teeth pulled for it acting like a lemur?

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Why would you have the lemur's teeth pulled for it acting like a lemur?

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For the safety of the public and for us. Their top canines are serrated, and leave nasty scars, and since our lemurs do come in contact with the public we'd rather be safe than sorry. Really, it's cosmetical and is not any different than de-clawing cats. We go to the top lemur and coati vet in the nation, so it's not like we're de-fanging them in our back yard.

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Originally Posted by Purrrfect9

For the safety of the public and for us. Their top canines are serrated, and leave nasty scars, and since our lemurs do come in contact with the public we'd rather be safe than sorry. Really, it's cosmetical and is not any different than de-clawing cats. We go to the top lemur and coati vet in the nation, so it's not like we're de-fanging them in our back yard.

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comparing it to a barbaric practice that has been banned in a lot of countries isn't helping your case. people that declaw their cats deserve to have them taken away unless its for a serious medical reason.

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Originally Posted by kitsunex

comparing it to a barbaric practice that has been banned in a lot of countries isn't helping your case. people that declaw their cats deserve to have them taken away unless its for a serious medical reason.

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That's your opinion. I have mine. No amount of me explaining to people who are not willing to listen will change that. Therefore this is the last post on the topic of declawing/defanging.

that right there is a cop-out. you come in here and make some blanket statement and when you are called on it you take your ball and go home? never took you for being that immature.

when did i say that i wasn't listening. if you can explain to me how removing the end of a cat's toe at the last knuckle is NOT barbaric, then by all means give it a shot. I've seen the effects of declawing on a cat, both psychologically and physically and like i said there is a reason that Europe has banned the practice. I've seen cats that won't use a litter box because it still hurts their paws years later to try to stand on it with their mutilated paws. i've seen a beautiful gentle cat turn into a vicious biter because its claws were removed and it felt very vulnerable and threatened with its first line of defense get taken from it. When it comes to the procedure, in my experience only about 10% of them don't come out of the procedure screwed up in some way.

Just because people don't agree with your opinion doesn't mean they aren't listening.
I wouldn't pull my dog's fangs if they were a biter, or a cat's. It's a lemur, and you're forcing it to interact with people, and now that it's getting older and behaving like a lemur should, you want to pull it's teeth out?
You have a wild exotic. It's not a pet, and now that it's older(about the same age as most primate "pets" that need new homes.. go figure), it's behaving exactly as it should.
Pulling it's fangs is not a answer to modify the behavior. Treat it as a lemur, instead of a pet. You treat your marmosets like wild exotics, right? Or did you pull all their fangs too?

Would you get a pet cobra and cut its fangs out to modify its behavior?

How would you like it if someone cut out some of your teeth.

When I worked at the humane society a majority of the cats that were surrendered for litter box issues were also declawed. My parent's found their cat as a stray and he had been declawed in the most terrible way (just nubs of toes left). He was always very picky about his litterbox usage and disliked having his feet touched.

I used to work at a zoo and we did an interactive presentation in the lemur exhibit (ring tailed and red ruffs) where we'd go out and give the lemurs food and talk to the public about their natural history and behavior. One time the lemurs got too excited about the food and started taking swipes at us to get the food faster. That was the end of those presentations. I really don't think that lemurs are an appropriate animal to expect to behave in a public presentation setting. They are really neat animals, but they're wild animals. If you take their fangs away and it doesn't hurt as much when they bite someone, it doesn't mean that you took their fear or their aggression away, it just means that you lessened impact of their behavior.

Now that I re-read my post about the defanging, relating it to declawing really wasn't that accurate of an analogy. I was in a hurry and really wasn't thinking about what would be most accurate to compare it to. All in all, it's similar to pulling human teeth. It's not my decision to get the lemurs defanged, it's my boss, who is in charge of our company and she feels like it's an unnecessary risk to kids and people that we show to. The only use that lemurs have for these fangs is to fight, and they leave very nasty cuts that easily get infected. They serve no purpose in their eating habits at all. We get them removed also for the safety of our troop, where the worst damage that they could do is scratch with their fingernails and pull hair out. Can they still bite? Yes, but the wound is much less severe and most likely will not cause a medical emergency for them. All of our lemurs were put under anesthesia (Isoflurine for those who care), and they are pulled at an age where the tooth has not yet fused to the mandible/maxilla, so it literally just pops right out. Their mouth is a little tender for the rest of the day, but after 24-36 hours they are back to eating hard, crunchy solids without any signs of distress (we fed soft fruits during the 24-36 hour period). Now personally I believe that if someone were to wait until the fangs had fully come in and had fused to the jaw, then yes, it would be cruel and very dangerous to attempt to pull them out, mainly due to the risk of breaking their jaw in the process. But if done early enough there is no cutting involved what so ever. On another note, if you are going to do ANYTHING surgical with any pet, you should always research the vet that you are going to take it to. Like human doctors, there are vets that are specialized for surgeries, so specialized in fact that it goes down to the species. We wouldn't choose just any DVM to do any surgery (unless immediate medical emergency). We go to Dr. Kat who's 2 hours east of Denton, TX, who is one of the nations leading vets for all species of lemurs. That's a 5 hour drive from where we are located.

Also, about getting a venomous snake defanged, I would never get one defanged because the venom helps aid in the digestion process. Fangs in lemurs are used for fighting only.

Edit-
Also, I do not keep marmosets, I keep wallabies and red roo's.

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Originally Posted by kitsunex

I've seen the effects of declawing on a cat, both psychologically and physically

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A declawing done incorrectly will hurt cats, just as many things will do when done incorrectly. Done early enough by a competent surgeon, the cats are fine.

I too have seen declawing on many cats, and have seen them go on to live happy well adjusted lives,(and still manage to bring home dead animals on a daily basis).

Your view of it being barbaric is your opinion, and I respect that. However, I do not agree that every case of declawing, especially when done properly, is going to destroy or diminish the cats quality of life like you imply, my own proof of that is simply all the declawed cats I have come across and owned that were quite happy and healthy.

You could try to say my cats were miserable, but I ask you to present some scrap of evidence besides mere speculation on your part.

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Originally Posted by kitsunex

that right there is a cop-out. you come in here and make some blanket statement and when you are called on it you take your ball and go home? never took you for being that immature.

when did i say that i wasn't listening. if you can explain to me how removing the end of a cat's toe at the last knuckle is NOT barbaric, then by all means give it a shot. I've seen the effects of declawing on a cat, both psychologically and physically and like i said there is a reason that Europe has banned the practice. I've seen cats that won't use a litter box because it still hurts their paws years later to try to stand on it with their mutilated paws. i've seen a beautiful gentle cat turn into a vicious biter because its claws were removed and it felt very vulnerable and threatened with its first line of defense get taken from it. When it comes to the procedure, in my experience only about 10% of them don't come out of the procedure screwed up in some way.

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I'm sorry if this seems like a cop-out to you, but I sincerely hate arguing just for the sake of arguing. Also, I am not here to discuss in detail the effects pre-and post operation of declawing cats. That was an inaccurate analogy on my part and I apologize for that. By your 'tone' / choice of wording in your posts, you appeal to be very hostile and emotional, which if this discussion were to take place in person, generally leads to the tendency of people defending and advancing their argument, rather than listen to what the original point was (which was not declawing cats in this case). That's how I came to the conclusion of you not listening. If I was wrong, I once again apologize. If you would like to continue a discussion on the negative outcomes of declawing, then let's make a new thread about it instead of taking away from the OP's original intention.

Also, as far as the blanket statement, I NEVER suggested that the OP go and get any of his primates defanged. What I had said was that he needed to watch the behavior of his female lemur towards children, because in my own experience, and as several people in this thread have also agreed out of their own experience or from what they've heard, as lemurs age, they become less and less tolerant of children, aka more aggressive. Ring-Tailed Lemurs are a matriarchal society, and the females are the ones who do all of the actual physical fighting, which is what concerns me the most about having an adult near children. I only shared what my boss/company does with out lemurs when we take them out to do presentations. In Oklahoma, we have very few laws protecting any animal species. If one of our lemurs were to bite a child or adult and if it were severe, which it would be 90% of the time if it had it's fangs, and if the parents were to report it to animal control, animal control would be pretty much obligated to euthanize that animal, especially if the parents made a big enough fuss about the bite. It's as much a safety precaution for the animals from humans as it is a safety precaution for themselves.

-Shrugs.- I'll stick to herps, and maybe one day, a dog.