Why won't my baby eat?

Okay, now I'm starting to get worried. My 08 female, about 7 months old now, hasn't eaten in 4 weeks. I've had her for 3 weeks, and there were NO feeding problems prior to recieving her. I haven't handled or touched her the past week and a half to get used to my recent tank updates so she's used to her home. The temperatures are completely correct, not any fluxuation. 80-84 on the cold side, 90-95 on the hot side, perfect humidity, NO signs of shedding, and she won't eat. I've tried feeding her at night and during the day, nothing, pre-scent for an hour or more before I try, and she just doesn't even aknowledge that the food is there. I shake it with the tongs by the scruff of its neck about 4-6 inches in front of her face, and she just turns around and goes to the corner of the tank. I'm feeding her exactly what they were feeding her before, frozen fuzzies, same brand, and still nothing. Should I try a live mouse?

I know you're not supposed to let it get to you but, 4 weeks seems too long for a baby not to eat.

4 weeks is a little long for a juvie. I would try a live mouse.
Are you sure you are feeding appropriately sized meals?

Since you have already double and triple checked the temps and such, I won't bother to ask you about that. Are you offering multiple hides? (ones that are small and tight?) You may want to consider adding some crumpled up newspaper to the enclosure to help with security. It's definitely not normal for a young snake to fast for that long.

What are you currently offering, and how do you prepare it before feeding?

Are you heating up the prey in the same way? Using water washes off all the good smell. You can also try dousing it in dirty rat/mouse bedding. I have had good luck with that.

JonV

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

4 weeks is a little long for a juvie. I would try a live mouse.
Are you sure you are feeding appropriately sized meals?

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Yes, I was told no bigger than the width of the snake, and it's just about right, and it's the same size it was being fed before.

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Since you have already double and triple checked the temps and such, I won't bother to ask you about that. Are you offering multiple hides? (ones that are small and tight?) You may want to consider adding some crumpled up newspaper to the enclosure to help with security. It's definitely not normal for a young snake to fast for that long.

What are you currently offering, and how do you prepare it before feeding?

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Yes, I have two of the same hide, one on the hot side and one on the cold side, to prevent favoring. Where should I put the newspaper? And I'm using thawed fuzzies, thawed to room temperature using no water.

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Are you heating up the prey in the same way? Using water washes off all the good smell. You can also try dousing it in dirty rat/mouse bedding. I have had good luck with that.

JonV

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I used warm water the first time, then the rest I just let it thaw out normally using room temperature.


I just don't understand why it completely avoids it. And I haven't and WON'T force feed or make it angry to eat unless it goes for a long, long time.

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Originally Posted by xKxLxHx

Yes, I was told no bigger than the width of the snake, and it's just about right, and it's the same size it was being fed before.


Yes, I have two of the same hide, one on the hot side and one on the cold side, to prevent favoring. Where should I put the newspaper? And I'm using thawed fuzzies, thawed to room temperature using no water.



I used warm water the first time, then the rest I just let it thaw out normally using room temperature.


I just don't understand why it completely avoids it. And I haven't and WON'T force feed or make it angry to eat unless it goes for a long, long time.

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I would fill up the entire bottom of the enclosure with loosely crumpled up newspaper. It's just to help the snake feel more secure.

Just curious, are you offering rats or mice? It sounds a bit small to me,in either case, but I would offer what it was previously eating.

My best suggestion would be to add the crumpled up newspaper first. Wait for about 3 days, then offer prey. Since it is frozen/thawed, I would allow it to thaw out next to the enclosure in a plastic bag. Once it is thawed, I would get a tub of warm water and raise the temperature of the prey by soaking it the bag in the water. Then offer the prey, but make sure not to disturb the snake (no removing hides or anything like that). If the snake does not take it then I would put the prey in the cage overnight. (you can put it on a paper plate if you use wood bedding) If the fuzzy is not consumed overnight, toss it. Hopefully, by morning you won't even have to worry about it.

I hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

I would fill up the entire bottom of the enclosure with loosely crumpled up newspaper. It's just to help the snake feel more secure.

Just curious, are you offering rats or mice? It sounds a bit small to me,in either case, but I would offer what it was previously eating.

My best suggestion would be to add the crumpled up newspaper first. Wait for about 3 days, then offer prey. Since it is frozen/thawed, I would allow it to thaw out next to the enclosure in a plastic bag. Once it is thawed, I would get a tub of warm water and raise the temperature of the prey by soaking it the bag in the water. Then offer the prey, but make sure not to disturb the snake (no removing hides or anything like that). If the snake does not take it then I would put the prey in the cage overnight. (you can put it on a paper plate if you use wood bedding) If the fuzzy is not consumed overnight, toss it. Hopefully, by morning you won't even have to worry about it.

I hope this helps.

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Should I take out the reptibark I already have in there, and replace it completely, or just stick the paper underneath?

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Originally Posted by xKxLxHx

Should I take out the reptibark I already have in there, and replace it completely, or just stick the paper underneath?

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Nope, leave everything that is in the tank there. Don't touch a thing. Just toss the crumpled up newspaper on top. It looks silly, but it really does seem to work with some problem feeders.

Hi,

Probably a silly question - but have you tried heating the head of the prey up - either by using a hairdryer or holding it near a heat bulb?

It's also worth double checking with the place you got it from exactly how they were offering it - just in case they offered it differently that you are doing.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Probably a silly question - but have you tried heating the head of the prey up - either by using a hairdryer or holding it near a heat bulb?

It's also worth double checking with the place you got it from exactly how they were offering it - just in case they offered it differently that you are doing.


dr del

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Not exactly. After I let it thaw to room temperature, last night I put it underneath my ceramic heat bulb overnight.

And no, she still didn't eat, the mouse was still in the cage when I woke up this morning. :(

I would try a live small adult mouse.

Also, what are you using to measure your temps, and are you measuring ground level temperatures?

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Originally Posted by xKxLxHx

Not exactly. After I let it thaw to room temperature, last night I put it underneath my ceramic heat bulb overnight.

And no, she still didn't eat, the mouse was still in the cage when I woke up this morning. :(

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So, you're offering mice fuzzies? A hatchling can take a hopper as its first meal (eyes and ears just opened).

I still think you need to offer a small live mouse, since she's never taken f/t for you. Fuzzy is too small for a bp her age.

One other thing I'd like to add. This comes directly from our caresheet here. If you haven't had a chance to look over it yet, it addresses a lot of common mistakes that can cause a BP not to feed.

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WHY WON'T MY SNAKE EAT?
In almost all cases, a ball python refuses to eat due to husbandry issues. Especially a young one. If your snake misses more than one meal (sometimes they won't want to eat while in shed) please check the following possible causes:

Lack of Security -- No hides, or hides that are too large or exposed (ie: half logs). They prefer dark, tight hides they barely fit into. Also, if the enclosure is too large, or too open (glass) or in a high traffic area with a lot of loud noise or movement. Another snake in the same enclosure can also cause serious security issues.

Over Handling -- Frequent intrusions into the enclosure, changes to the enclosure, and/or long frequent handling sessions can cause a shy snake to feel vulnerable and refuse to eat.

Improper Temps -- Temps that are too high or too low, or temps that fluctuate too much. Make sure you have an accurate and consistent read on your temps.

Improper Lighting -- Bright white lights shining directly into the enclosure, or 24 hour lighting can cause stress. Make sure there is some sort of day/night cycle.

Offering New Prey -- Changing prey species (ie: mice to rats) or methods (ie: live to f/t) can cause refusal. Such changes can be made, but may require patience and persistence.

Improper Offering of Prey -- Offering prey too frequently can do more harm than good. If a snake refuses, do not attempt to feed again for a week. Also, changing environments by moving to a feeding-box or removing hides and "furniture" can cause refusal in these shy snakes.

Prey Too Large -- Too large an item may intimidate a snake and cause refusal, or even a regurgitation if it is eaten. Also, if a ball python has eaten large meals in the past, it can cause a sudden an indefinite period of fasting.

Mites -- An external parasite common to snakes that must be treated and eradicated. A product called Provent-a-Mite (P.A.M.) is the safest and most effective method.

Seasonal -- Sexually mature ball pythons may fast for anywhere from a few weeks to a few months during their mating season (typically anywhere from late fall to early spring) especially if a sexually mature snake of the opposite sex is in close proximity.

Illness -- If all other possible reasons are eliminated, a vet check may be in order to look for internal parasites, as well as possible infections to the skin, scales, mouth or respiratory system.

Fortunately, ball pythons are extremely hardy snakes that can go for months (if necessary) of fasting without suffering any ill effects. This gives a responsible keeper plenty of time to figure out why the snake refuses to eat and get them on a regular, consistent feeding regimen.

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They won't eat if its spoiled. Try a live rat pup. The newspaper is a good idea. You might also try putting the snake and rat pup together in a closed up paper sack(inside the cage) overnight. This has worked for me to get a picky eater back on feed.
With F/T I heat it up with a hair dryer. I feed live most of the year. F/T is a PITA.

I agree with a few of the posters above. You should try a live mouse or rat. I suggest a mouse. It seems that picky ball pythons are more inclined to take a mouse over a rat.

Good luck, and keep us updated.

as long as all your temps, humidity, housing etc. is a in proper order i wouldnt stress about it too much . . . .

BP's can go of eating for months even a year is not uncommon, there are even 2 cases where BP's went off eating for 22 months straight which is close to 2 years, as long as your snake is not losing weight then you have nothing to worry about . . . i offer my yearlings(08's) an adult mouse every 5-7 days i weigh them before i offer them food even if they dont eat so next time i can tell if they have lost any weight, i offer my 07's and older an adult mouse every 7-10 days my adults get small rats, i prefer to offer my BP's smaller prey more often than larger prey spaced further away, its easier on their digestive systems

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Originally Posted by Python Guru

as long as all your temps, humidity, housing etc. is a in proper order i wouldnt stress about it too much . . . .

BP's can go of eating for months even a year is not uncommon, there are even 2 cases where BP's went off eating for 22 months straight which is close to 2 years, as long as your snake is not losing weight then you have nothing to worry about . . . i offer my yearlings(08's) an adult mouse every 5-7 days i weigh them before i offer them food even if they dont eat so next time i can tell if they have lost any weight, i offer my 07's and older an adult mouse every 7-10 days my adults get small rats, i prefer to offer my BP's smaller prey more often than larger prey spaced further away, its easier on their digestive systems

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A baby can't go for two years without feeding. An adult with good weight, yes. And those cases were WC females brought in that were in shock.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

A baby can't go for two years without feeding. An adult with good weight, yes. And those cases were WC females brought in that were in shock.

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your right a baby should not go that long without eating nor should any snake, but it happens . . . . here is some more help if you are still having problems

"What can I do to get this snake to eat?! This is a question that most Ball Python owners have asked themselves at one time or another. The first thing you should do is RELAX. A six or eight month fasting period is not unheard of, nor in most cases will it harm your snake. I would suggest getting a postal scale and monitor any weight loss. If your snake doesn't loose much more than about 15-20% of it's original weight you shouldn't worry. Stress is usually the reason that Ball Pythons don't eat. Your Ball Python can be feeling stress: from not being comfortable in it's (new) home, from parasites (either internal or external), from you handling the snake too much, or from infections (respiratory, mouth rot, blister disease, etc). Assuming that the snake is otherwise healthy, free of parasites, and just not eating, try some of the following:


- Double check that your temperature and humidity cycles are correct and your snake has a few places to hide in the cage (see husbandry).
- What season is it outdoors? It's pretty common for adult males (and sometimes females) to go off feed during the winter months, as that is also the breeding season.
- If your snake is shying away from the food item, chances are it's stressed about something.
- Are you handling/disturbing the snake? If so how often? Try leaving the snake alone for a week or so and then offer food.
- Is there another snake in the tank? Some of my Ball Pythons do not eat unless they are the only snake in the cage.
- Is the cage in a room that gets a lot of foot traffic and noise? Try moving it to a more quite room.
- Is it within a few days of, or during a shed cycle? Most snakes won't eat during this period.
- Are you offering live? Try offering dead, or if you are offering dead, try offering live.
- How large of a meal are you offering? Even though they might be able to swallow a large meal, some snakes prefer smaller ones.
- Are you offering different types of rodents?..Mice? Rats? Gerbils?
- What color of rodents are you offering? Some snakes don't recognize white lab mice and rats as food items. Try and get some with some color on them.
- Are you offering male or female rodents? Some snakes show a preference one way or the other.
- What is the temperature of the dead rodent? Sometimes a fresh kill is the right temperature, and a thawed rodent isn't.
- When you offer food, how are you doing it? Are you disturbing the snake first? a lot of times, if you use the hemostats× and dangle a rodent in front of the snake or, just in front of the hole in the hide box, the Ball Python will take it.
- What time of day are you offering food? Remember that Ball Pythons are nocturnal and may not want to eat if it's light out.
- Are the lights on in the room when you offer food? Some snake like it dark when they eat.
- How far away from the snake is the rodent? Somewhere around 2-6 inches from the snakes face is about right.
- Try putting the Ball Python in a brown (opaque) paper bag over night with a DEAD rodent. Make sure you put the bag back into the tank! Sometimes they get out of the bag.
- Talk to the pet store and see if they will provide you with some soiled gerbil bedding. Place that in the paper bag with the rodent.
- Try scenting a dead rat or mouse by rubbing it against a dead gerbil.
- Try thawing a rodent, refreezing it, and thawing it again. The freezing process breaks down the cell walls and makes the rodent smell more pungent.
- It isn't very pleasant, but try splitting or cutting the dead rodent's skull so that some brain matter and blood come out."

I agree with what has already been said....I would try a live rat pup, or live small adult mouse. Juvi's appreciate live prey items as their first meals. Or you could try pre-killed, if the rodent is still warm and fresh, your baby may be more tempted to eat.

From your description you are not heating the mouse above room temperature. BPs have heat pits that they use to locate their prey; basically they can "see" things that are hotter than the rest of the environment. If the mouse is the same temperature as the surrounding environment, no wonder it isn't eating.

I don't quite understand the comment about putting it under the CHE overnight. Was that in the snake's enclosure? If so, then the mouse still remained the same temperature as the surroundings. If it was out of the enclosure, then you offered it in the morning... well... yuk... it was probably half rotten by then.

I would try the newspaper trick... just take pieces of newspaper, loosely crumple them, and make a layer on the bottom of the enclosure. They need to be loose enough that the snake can crawl under or through them. This way, even when the snake comes out of its hide, it still feels mostly hidden and secure. Then, after it has had at least a few days to get used to this, offer a live mouse of appropriate size, or a little on the small side, because that can also help timid feeders. Note, I do not mean smaller than a fuzzy mouse, which is already on the small size for your BP, but sticking with the size it was eating before until it takes a meal won't hurt, then move it up in size.

However, if you have not been heating the f/t mouse properly, you might give that one try before you switch to live if staying on f/t is important to you. Make sure the mouse is warm enough (mouse body temp is a little warmer than human body temp), especially the head. Also, when you wiggle the f/t mouse, do it gently. It is easy to scare a timid snake by wiggling the prey item too much. Your description of shaking it with the tongs leads me to believe you might be moving it around too much.

I just bought, pre-scented, and gave my snake a live mouse.

I got excited, it looked like it was going to eat, it followed it with it's head, then it would sniff it out with its tounge and turn away and just ball up.

WHY?!

So I just gave it a dead mouse, and it did the exact same thing.

I'm honestly getting really stressed over this, what should I do?

Even the new ball python at petsmart (had it for one day) ate. WHY?!

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Originally Posted by xKxLxHx

I just bought, pre-scented, and gave my snake a live mouse.

I got excited, it looked like it was going to eat, it followed it with it's head, then it would sniff it out with its tounge and turn away and just ball up.

WHY?!

So I just gave it a dead mouse, and it did the exact same thing.

I'm honestly getting really stressed over this, what should I do?

Even the new ball python at petsmart (had it for one day) ate. WHY?!

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ive never had a single issue wiht live but i have found that keeping my humid hide at 94*F and offering after my BP just exited it seems to get a great feeding response every time.i present as well just because i dont feed as soon as i get them. i wait for the evening. ive been told 94*F is a sweet spot that helps the feeding response. when my BP exits i know he is looking for the source of the smell and he is ready to rock n roll

you can also try offering a different color pray item.

yeah im having the same problem but its only been 2 weeks since she last eat?

Well I would say that the snake acting interested is a good sign. Even very young snakes that have been feeding can go a long time without eating, as python guru has said. some times overfeeding or feeding to often will drive an animal to go off feeding, and sometimes they just go off feeding even the baby ones. it is my experience that with proper security and husbandry a healthy non feeding animal will eat when they are ready. So put the snake on the back burner so to speak check in on it to make sure it isn't loosing to much weight and try to feed it in two weeks or so. If it does not go for it right away wait another two weeks. my 08 clutch had one really poor feeder that I ended up assisted feeding a few times to keep em going. What I did was stopped trying to feed every week, and left the animal alone. I just started feeding it regularly again and it is an aggressive feeder now. I think you have tried enough things to say the snake isn't hungry so all you can do is wait it out. Just my take on things I am sure other may disagree

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Originally Posted by Chuck

Well I would say that the snake acting interested is a good sign. Even very young snakes that have been feeding can go a long time without eating, as python guru has said. some times overfeeding or feeding to often will drive an animal to go off feeding, and sometimes they just go off feeding even the baby ones. it is my experience that with proper security and husbandry a healthy non feeding animal will eat when they are ready. So put the snake on the back burner so to speak check in on it to make sure it isn't loosing to much weight and try to feed it in two weeks or so. If it does not go for it right away wait another two weeks. my 08 clutch had one really poor feeder that I ended up assisted feeding a few times to keep em going. What I did was stopped trying to feed every week, and left the animal alone. I just started feeding it regularly again and it is an aggressive feeder now. I think you have tried enough things to say the snake isn't hungry so all you can do is wait it out. Just my take on things I am sure other may disagree

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I'm just really afraid to wait it out, I don't want it to die, I'd feel terrible. Right now, the snake went in its hide with its head sticking out almost looking at the mouse, but I think she's sleeping.

you might have to force feed her with a pinky i know its not really best thing to do but if shes not eating then you just might have to

i have heard of people grabbing a different container placing a single hide in it and a live hopper in your case, place the snake in the hide let it crawl from your hands to the hide then wait. if your lucky she will smell it, and poise her head at the hide entrance, this means she is trying to locate it. and if your luckier she will see it since its the only loan heat source and nail it after an hour or so. maybe sooner.

good thinking im gonna try that in 5 days

Just watch her, hoppers have there eyes open and are pretty crazy some times. when i feed my BP them some times i have to remove them because they just have to much spunk and are off the wall. i think the one i had was nuts lol

Also, place the hide in a corner and the hopper in the opposite. if they cower in the corner even better non moving target for your BP. but like i said monitor it because some of them can be a lil crazy and if she gets spooked it will do more harm then good.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

Just watch her, hoppers have there eyes open and are pretty crazy some times. when i feed my BP them some times i have to remove them because they just have to much spunk and are off the wall. i think the one i had was nuts lol

Also, place the hide in a corner and the hopper in the opposite. if they cower in the corner even better non moving target for your BP. but like i said monitor it because some of them can be a lil crazy and if she gets spooked it will do more harm then good.

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The mouse was pretty crazy, it wouldn't stop moving, and was just running all over the place trying to climb on everything. I'll probably go see if I can get a smaller live one that isn't so..active. hah.

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Originally Posted by xKxLxHx

The mouse was pretty crazy, it wouldn't stop moving, and was just running all over the place trying to climb on everything. I'll probably go see if I can get a smaller live one that isn't so..active. hah.

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wait until the mouse is dozy, BP's eat better at night any how. the hide will make the difference she will come out on her own terms and feel safe. i use a chip dip container. it is tight and works well and its good to just keep around. i carre it with me when i have him out so if i need to put him some where manageable for a bit i can

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Originally Posted by xKxLxHx

I'm just really afraid to wait it out, I don't want it to die, I'd feel terrible. Right now, the snake went in its hide with its head sticking out almost looking at the mouse, but I think she's sleeping.

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you should weight the snake and post pics of it so we can see it.