Unhealthy Ball Python- new to BPs

I am going to inheirit a juvenile ball python from a pet store. He is unhealthy and is not being well taken care of. There was absolutely no humidity at all in the cage he was kept in and in turn he is having a great deal of difficulty shedding. He also will not eat on his own. I watched the manager of the store force feed him two frozen/thawed mice which I thought was horiffic. The snake kept trying to regurgitate it as she was using tongs and shoving the mouse further down his throat. I knew this could not be the right way of doing this. She informed me that they had taken the snake to the vet and it had been diagnosed with stomach/body inclusion. I looked information up on this and it just didnt sounds like what is wrong with this guy. He is not flaccid at all, no star gazing, nothing really out of the ordinary, mouth is clear. Any one have any input on what could be wrong? The snake has been with them since November and this started I think the end of November so it has been a while.

I have since bought bedding (cypress bedding) and some hides to get some humidity in his cage. He is being soaked once a day and misted atleast twice a day.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I highly doubt they took the animal to the vet, seeing as a diagnosis for IBD (Inclusion Body Disease) is very expensive. To get a 100% diagnosis, it requires a sample of the internal tissues that IBD targets (Liver, Kidney, Tonsil, Stomach, etc).

Now they could have gotten a blood smear done, but again, that still isn't cheap. Not something a pet store would do for an animal they consider disposable. Even then, it wouldn't give them a for sure diagnosis.

With that said, keep the animal in complete isolation. In a separate room than all other reptiles. IBD isn't the only thing that is contagious. Mites, Respiratory Diseases, etc can all be passed to other reptiles. Completely disinfect your hands before and after handling the snake. If it were me, I would keep him in quarantine for six months (possibly more).

While I can't tell you what is wrong with her, a veterinarian can. I would make an appointment for her as soon as you can get her in. Have your vet do a complete workup on her, including a fecal (to check for internal parasites) and also have her checked for mites, Respiratory Infections, etc.

Honestly, I would stop soaking her and leave her completely alone for a while. Stress is probably playing a major factor in his feeding issues.

Boost the humidity in his cage to 60-65% for a little while, supply her with a large enough water bowl to soak in (if she wants), 80-82 degrees ambient temperature, 90-94 basking area, two hides identical hides (more if you want), one one the cool side, one on the warm side. I also like to give them a humid hide. Just fill a hide with moist sphagnum moss and they will utilize it.

Cypress is fine to use as a substrate.

Hope this helps!

I recently had to deal with a baby bp that refused to eat anything.

The only thing that got it to eat was taking it home and ensuring the husbandry (temps. humidity etc.) was absolutely perfect.

But as it was mentioned in the post above, a vet check is probably a good idea.

Thank you for the response. We have only been soaking it for the past 3 days. We do have a humid hide like you described. The other ones they provided it with is a half log and a piece of branch resting on the side of the tank with fake leaves on it. Until I get the snake I cant do much about the setup, other than what I have gotten them to do which is change the substrate and add the humid hide and bigger water dish.

how do I find a good vet? The one they said they took it to is obviously not a good one. What is a good way to boost humidity?

Again I thank you for your response!

sphagnum moss helps with humidity, if you can covering part of the top (unless it changes your temps)helps with humidity. Unfortunetly heat lamps suck the humidity out of the air. Big water bowls (but not too big to take up alot of room in the tank)

These all helped me with humidity

P.S. Do you have a hygrometre? If you do is it a stick-on hygrometre? I would recommend a digital thermometre and and a digital hygrometre. The readings are more accurate than the cheap stick-ons

The more detail of the setup you can give us, the more we can help you make it fit your snakes needs. What are the hot side, cool side, and ambient temps? What are you measureing temps and humidity with? How old is the snake? How much does it weigh?

I don't think you need to soak every day. Although you could try soaking and then taking a damp towel (with warm water) and let the snake crawl through it. that will usually help some of the shed come off.

I am sure the snake will eat on its own if you try a few different methods. Force feeding is probably not helping though. There are a bunch of different methods for getting poor feeders to eat. I am sure others have more input on this subject as my snakes have no problem gobling up whatever happens to walk by!

The snake may be sick, or it just may be suffering from the abusive care it is receiving at the hands of these uneducated fools.

I am surprised they have not killed it yet to be honest.

Bruce

If he's in a tank (with a screen lid) cover 2/3 of the lid with plastic/foil, making sure to avoid the light (if there is one). Misting the enclosure a few times a day will also help. Just make sure the substrate doesn't become soggy/wet and their is adequate ventilation.

The link below is a good place to find a herp vet in your local area. Click the state you're in and look for one that is local to you.

http://www.herpvetconnection.com/

Alright I will try to answer all the questions asked.

They are measuring the humidity and temp with a stick on one. The humidity level is at 35 when I went and visited the snake today. There are two heat lamps one on each side of the 20 gal long tank and a UVB light. Not sure of the wattages on any of them. I can find out Monday at the earliest when I see him again. I have the moss in his coconut shell hide (it is half a coconut shell with a small hole cut in it as a door) He has been using that. The water dish is not huge but he can fit in it if he wanted. I am not sure of the age as he was sent to the store in November. Not sure of the weight either. I will find that out on Monday either.

What are some different ways to entice him to eat. They are force feeding him 2 pinkies every 5 days.

I will call the store tomorrow and see if they cant weigh him for me. Do you want the length as well?

Tell them to stop forcefeeding that poor snake ASAP. They can kill it by doing that, and if they do not kill it the stress can make it susceptile to myriad health concerns. Not to mention that fact that they are likely turning it off of feed altogether and contributing to the problem at hand.

Dial guages and stick ons are complete garbage and do not measure anything.

I would suggest researching how to set up a tub, and when you get him home set him up properly in a small tub with adequate heat and humidity.

Your priority it to get him stabilized and not how the tub looks.

Two small hides, tight and identical, and two heating sources to keep his enclosure at 80 on the cool side and 90 on the warm side, 2 means of controlling the temps. Dial dimmers minimum, or thermostats preferably.

Use something simple like paper towel as his bedding.

Poke holes in the tub to allow for ventilation. And have a nice tight secure lid so he cannot escape.

Do not overdo the holes, as this will allow humidity to escape and they do not have high oxygen needs.

Dollar stores are your friends.... light dimmers, a big tupperware (as an enclosure), small plastic bowls (as hides - just cut doors in them), paper towel, and a small rakin dish is really all you need. Just have to ensure you have the heating pads.

Get a digital dual (indoor/outdoor) thermometer with probe from Walmart for 12.0 and that will measure your temps and humidity.

Once he is set up... leave him alone for a week with absolutely no handling. Offer him a live hopper mouse and see how he does.

I champion your intents, but are you sure you want to take this on? They are damaging this snake by the day, and he is likely going to be a lot of work to get started, may not thrive and may cost you money... be sure you are up to the challenge.

But... once properly set up he may be AMAZING! You never know. But it will be a lot of work for you to learn and commit to him.

He will teach you everything you ever need to know about snakes.

Bruce

Sorry this is REALLY bothering me.

Tell this person that a snake does not need to have its food rammed down its throat like that. I have assist fed hatchlings and it does not need to be that drastic... key point, assist feeding rather than force feeding.

Any snake that is not set up properly cannot be expected to thrive, so until that is accomplished (and they are doing a VERY poor job of it) then the decision to assist should not be made.

This snake should be in complete isolation with minimal distractions. I will not even rant about them keeping it in a screen top cage with lights on it.

If this snake is anywhere public they need to move it out of the public space and into a private space. I would even suggest they drape the enclosure completely and give the snake darkness.

BPs are shy nocturnal snakes.

Do they know the age of the pinks they are feeding? Any pinkie less than a week old does not have adequate fat stores. They may be traumatizing this snake for minimal benefit.

Right now maintenance feeding is sufficient. That means giving the snake enough food to survive.

Every five days is TOO OFTEN.

I hope that helps.

If you are serious about helping this snake, then get your enclosure set up ASAP and get it out of that store so it can begin acclimating.

Bruce

I am up for the challenge. I have the money to do so and if I dont have it at the moment I can get it. I will go and get the supplies listed. As for the complete setup, what are good heat sources to get? If I get a plastic tub the lights are off limits, I read about heat pads burning them.

Is there a link on here where i can view how to set up a tub properly or someone who has one that can share a picture so I know what I am looking at doing? I will also do some searching on here.

They go by proper standards and proceedures that a licensed vet gives them and thats what they go by. I am not sure the age of the pinkies as they are shipped to the store in bulk. Hopefully I can get this poor snake soon. If I cant have it I talked to the store manager about having the snake humanely euthanized as I dont see them fit for caring for it or it finding a good qualified home. Hope everything turns out good. I will keep you updated. And again I can not thank you enough for your help.

Here's a baby tub - replace the green box in the left of the picture with an identical plastic flower pot saucer hide as the one in the right of the picture. Note the digital thermometer/hygrometer to measure temps and humidity.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ub/BabyTub.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/PretzelA.jpg

Good to hear Tina. :)

I agree, if they cannot care for this snake then it needs to euthanized.

I will dig for some pics as well. Cannot do it right now, but will get on it ASAP.

Bruce

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Here's a baby tub - replace the green box in the left of the picture with an identical plastic flower pot saucer hide as the one in the right of the picture. Note the digital thermometer/hygrometer to measure temps and humidity.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ub/BabyTub.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/PretzelA.jpg

---

What kind of heat source do you have for that? And where would be a good place to get one...or two i should say since I have have to have two..? What is a good size tub to work with? A tall tub or the shorter longer ones?

Also we have another ball python who is also in a 20 gallon long tank with the heat lamps and UVB lamps on top. He seems to be doing fine, eating, shedding and defecating just fine... is that not a good set up? How could we modify the glass tank for him. He is a bigger snake, atleast 2 1/2 feet long, his owner left him when they moved out and boyfriend is stuck with him.

That particular tub came from Dollar General. It's a 15 quart tub. But I do house my babies now in 6 quart Sterlite shoe box tubs. You can get them for $1 each at Walmart.

I heat mine with flexwatt, controlled by a Ranco thermostat.

You can use a UTH from a petstore and put it on a thermostat as well, and it might be easier for someone with one or two ball pythons.

Tanks were too much work for me, personally - I like how the tubs hold heat and humidty, but there are countless members that successfully keep their animals in tanks.

Juveniles (about a year old) are kept in 30 quart tubs and adults in 41 quart tubs.

UTH meaning under the tub? Sorry I am new to all this, we just always had dogs and my salamanders are easy as pie! Some place like petsmart would have the UTH thing you are talking about? And do they have thermostats at petsmart as well or would I go to wal-mart or home depot for that? I apologize for all the questions I am just trying to learn as much as I can before I bring him home.

Yes, UTH = Undertank Heater.

Petsmart does carry those, and rheostats, not thermostats.

Thermostats will always be your biggest single investment, but worth it, to make sure that your UTH does not overheat and potentially burn and even kill your snake.

You can purchase thermostats from Rich at Reptile Basics - http://www.reptilebasics.com

Rheostats have to be constantly adjusted, especially if you have fluctuating room temperatures (most people's ambient temps in their homes do drop at night by several degrees). Thermostats are set at one temp and keep them at that temperature.

Alright I got the weight of the snake today. I called in and had them weigh it. In November he weighed 100 grams and today he weigh 118 grams. To me that doesnt seem like a lot of weight gain in 3 months but I am new to snakes.

Also can you have two heating pads on the same thermostat or no?
Does a digital thermometer for fish tanks work for measuring temp in the tank?

I told them no more force feeding him. I am printing out what you all have wrote and showing the manager what experienced people have said. Thanks again!