spider ball wobble

I am going to be getting a spider ball on the 22nd from Neil Golli. I keep hearing that some spiders have a wobble. Im just wondering what that is refering to?

Yea i would like to know also

Type wobble into the search threads and you'll pull up alot of info.

I've never owned a spider and am actually trying to decide if I would ever be okay with owning a spider because of the wobble/spin...

But from what I read spiders tend to have a nuerological disorder that causes them to sway back and forth a little bit when they attempt to strike at their prey. Most spiders are apparently pretty uneffecte by it, meaning they still eat, shed, breed normally. Some severe cases are "spinners" that may do funny corkscrew things with their necks, or have trouble getting straightened out if you flip them upsidown.

Some people say not all spiders wobble, other people say that ALL spider have some wobble.

I took FOREVER to write this 'cus I'm at work and busy so like 10 people probably already replied lol

I have 5 spiders, one 08 wobbles a little before striking his rat. The others are perfectly fine. Spiders contribute to too many cool combos not to have one, or 2, or 10!!

This is strictly my opinion - I do not believe that the spider wobble is neurological, but rather an equilibrium problem with the spiders. I have four spiders, every one of them has a wobble.

If you pulled open their tubs, took them out, handled them, let them crawl around, you'd say that they didn't have the spider spin.

But sit quietly in front of their tubs at night when they are exploring their tubs, and they move differently than the rest of my collection. When they get to the top of the tub, they will sometimes twist over backwards, wobble, etc.

Since all spiders are descendants of one animal, and the wobble is known to be associated with the gene, I do not believe that it can be bred out - and that it's tied to the spider alelle (sp?).

Again - this is only my opinion - but I'd be willing to bet if owners who swear that they have non-wobblers observed their animal's movements at night, they would see that they behave differently from their other ball pythons.

I don't personally believe it to be a bad thing. All four of mine are eating and nailing their food (it doesn't inhibit their ability to effectively dispatch their prey), growing and shedding. I think that it adds to their quirky personalities and I don't mind it.

I will say that to a first time spider owner, it can be a bit disconcerting, even if you know it's a trait of the spider - it was to me.

I think it's time to stop being fearful of the "dreaded wobble" and instead accept that it's just part of the spider charm.

Well said ,Spiders are all a little "special"!

I love spiders.

I have one and another on the way.

I was told my girl had a slight wobble and to be honest I cannot see it.

Took me a loooooong time to get them, but they really are amazing morphs.

I have seen vids of absolute train wrecks, so there is a chance. But if you are looking to get one, go with a breeder you like, research them, and don't be afraid to ask those questions.

The tricky thing is that a train wreck can right itself in time, so you never know with them.

Bruce

Someday, I'll add a spider to the collection, but I must say the wobble is endearing...

I have one and another on the way and a slight wobble would not deter me at all.. Mine does not have a wobble, but even if she did...

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Originally Posted by rabernet

This is strictly my opinion - I do not believe that the spider wobble is neurological, but rather an equilibrium problem with the spiders. I have four spiders, every one of them has a wobble.

If you pulled open their tubs, took them out, handled them, let them crawl around, you'd say that they didn't have the spider spin.

But sit quietly in front of their tubs at night when they are exploring their tubs, and they move differently than the rest of my collection. When they get to the top of the tub, they will sometimes twist over backwards, wobble, etc.

Since all spiders are descendants of one animal, and the wobble is known to be associated with the gene, I do not believe that it can be bred out - and that it's tied to the spider alelle (sp?).

Again - this is only my opinion - but I'd be willing to bet if owners who swear that they have non-wobblers observed their animal's movements at night, they would see that they behave differently from their other ball pythons.

I don't personally believe it to be a bad thing. All four of mine are eating and nailing their food (it doesn't inhibit their ability to effectively dispatch their prey), growing and shedding. I think that it adds to their quirky personalities and I don't mind it.

I will say that to a first time spider owner, it can be a bit disconcerting, even if you know it's a trait of the spider - it was to me.

I think it's time to stop being fearful of the "dreaded wobble" and instead accept that it's just part of the spider charm.

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I completely agree with Robin, straight down to our opinions on what causes the wobble and the (imo) fact that they're here to stay.

I absolutely love my Spider. She's fast become my favorite snake, because she's a huge dork. She does move a bit different from the rest of my collection, but she doesn't have any problems whatsoever. When I'm handling her I have more fun than any others simply because she's my favorite :D

Before getting her I read both sides of the wobble debate and decided, why should I care if her head shakes a little bit while she's moving around? I already know she's beautiful, and that she's the key to other beautiful combos. It's just like saying a dog with three legs is going to be a problem, when they still have as much fun and energy and love to give, as dogs with all four.

My Spider only wobbles a little bit when she goes to pick up her head while she's moving around. Other than that, I haven't seen anything terribly disconcerting. I read once that a wobble's intensity can change in a single snake throughout their lives. As in, a snake that you initially get with no signs of a wobble, could shed and corkscrew like a psycho, then a while down the road be back to how they were when you get them. And vice versa, if you get a psycho spinner, they could turn around and you won't notice any kind of wobble. I've only had Naunet for a month, so I haven't seen any change.

Let me just say that, if you do find the movements upsetting, then a Spider may not be for you. To each his own. But read up on it more, meet up with people who have them, and see for yourself. Don't let people convince you that the Spider wobble is terrible. You may end up laughing at yourself for ever considering it badly :P

I have a spider that wobbles, for some reason He is one of our favorites....He eats great, is very docile. And the wobbles are yes a lil sad, but makes him special. He gets twisted up sometimes, or falls over when trying to climb,it just ads to his character. Its just one of those things that without extensive research nobody will really know for sure what causes it. Some people say they wont own a spider because of it? Well to each their own.....I dont know what I'd do if I didnt have my Spider, and my BEES, those are what got me into ball pythons to begin with. Ironically i dont notice a wobble in any of my Bees.....go figure

they all wobble, but its what makes them unique. I love my 08 male and he is my favorite although I love them all.

The thing about the wobble is that some show signs right out of the egg and loose it months later. Some are born with no wobble and can acquire it years later. It all varies from animal to animal :rolleye2:

IMO, they do not all wobble. Some do, some don't. If you are worried about the wobble, then find a breeder that has one the does not wobble.

I have a male and 3 females...no wobbles. I have heard that spider x spider breeding will make spiders that wobble, or spin.
How many breeders have tried to produce a super? I suspect a few did, and that is why there are spiders that show the wobble,or spinning.

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Originally Posted by Dave763

I have a male and 3 females...no wobbles. I have heard that spider x spider breeding will make spiders that wobble, or spin.
How many breeders have tried to produce a super? I suspect a few did, and that is why there are spiders that show the wobble,or spinning.

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The wobble is not caused from spider to spider breedings. Kevin from N.E.R.D imported the first spider. This spider did have the "wobble." He bred this spider to many other ball pythons, and produced spiders that did have the "wobble." I do not believe that breeding a spider to spider increased or decreased the chance of the "wobble." IMO, the "wobble" can, and eventually will, be bred out by many years of selective breeding.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

This is strictly my opinion - I do not believe that the spider wobble is neurological, but rather an equilibrium problem with the spiders. I have four spiders, every one of them has a wobble.

If you pulled open their tubs, took them out, handled them, let them crawl around, you'd say that they didn't have the spider spin.

But sit quietly in front of their tubs at night when they are exploring their tubs, and they move differently than the rest of my collection. When they get to the top of the tub, they will sometimes twist over backwards, wobble, etc.

Since all spiders are descendants of one animal, and the wobble is known to be associated with the gene, I do not believe that it can be bred out - and that it's tied to the spider alelle (sp?).

Again - this is only my opinion - but I'd be willing to bet if owners who swear that they have non-wobblers observed their animal's movements at night, they would see that they behave differently from their other ball pythons.

I don't personally believe it to be a bad thing. All four of mine are eating and nailing their food (it doesn't inhibit their ability to effectively dispatch their prey), growing and shedding. I think that it adds to their quirky personalities and I don't mind it.

I will say that to a first time spider owner, it can be a bit disconcerting, even if you know it's a trait of the spider - it was to me.

I think it's time to stop being fearful of the "dreaded wobble" and instead accept that it's just part of the spider charm.

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Dead on rabernet,

I've seen, touched, produced hundreds of spiders and crosses. I never believed my original male "wobbled" at all, for years I never saw him do it. HOWEVER if you go to my building and look in his tub at 2 am as he is out and looking around, sometimes he will just be hanging out with his head completely upside down. All the combo's do it as well, do not let anyone tell you any different as you will one day be disappointed if your unable to sleep and go look in his enclosure late at night.

No amount of crossing or out breeding will change this fact as I believe its a gene trait. The color and pattern gene must just fall near or be connected with their motor traits. This has zero effect on their quality of life. Spiders are know to eat great, breed young and to have more personality than any other morph. No collection, big or small, is near complete without the spider or combo of it in it as its one of the greatest morphs out there.......

The real “spin” on spiders.
Tuesday, February 13th, 2007
When I purchased my first spider many years ago, I had heard and was told about “spinning” in spider ball pythons. The way it was described, I understood “spinning” to be a condition where the animal continually loops their head and neck in a “corkscrew” motion and barely has the ability to sit still. I looked over my spider and there was no “cork screwing” so in my mind, he wasn’t a “spinner”.

Over the years that followed as I raised my spider, I heard a lot of big breeders making statements like “all spiders spin” or “all spiders are tweaked” and I really got pissed off. How could they be saying stuff like that? All they were doing was hurting any chance I ever had at selling spiders. Surely I would produce spiders that didn’t spin and if they were telling people that every single one was “tweaked”, I’d be cooked!

Then, I started producing my own spiders. Within my first couple of clutches I noticed a couple that “weren’t right”, but no big deal, I just wouldn’t sell those. Then I started looking harder. I noticed different degrees of odd behavior in all of the spiders that I produced. Some shook their head from side to side, some spun like tops, and others did the corkscrew thing as they were cruising their cage at night, still others were less noticeable but it was there. The less noticeable ones didn’t wobble or corkscrew, but they held their head at an angle when you looked at them. Kind of like the way a dog looks when it hears something it doesn’t understand. So then I started looking at spiders. Spiders in my friends collections, spiders at shows, spiders in pictures posted on the internet. All of them do it do some degree, all of them.

I’ve read the internet rumors that it has something to do with the amount of white, or the head pattern, or the connecting or non-connecting neck stripe on the animals neck … bologna! It doesn’t matter, they all do it. I’ve also heard that spider siblings do it. After producing tons of spider clutches, I don’t find that to be an accurate statement. I do believe that breeders have seen “spinning” in spider siblings, but I don’t think that it is any more common in the normal looking siblings of spiders than it is in any other normal looking ball python. Over the years (and before I ever heard of spinning in spiders) I have produced a heterozygous albino and a normal looking pastel sibling that spin the exact same way that spiders do. I feel that it is a condition that can effect all ball pythons but for whatever reason is common in spiders. I’ve also heard that the reason spiders spin is because they were so inbred early on in the project … ridiculous. The recessive mutations out there have been inbred/line bred by an order of magnitude more than spiders. The notion that a co-dominant/dominant mutation can be inbred more than a recessive is an ill informed one.

I finally understood what the big breeders were saying. It’s not always as in your face as people expect it to be, but it’s there in each and every spider. You just have to know what to look for. Now I know a lot of people are going to read this and say “no, not my spider”. I’m telling you, your spider does it too. You just have to know what to look for. I’m not sure what the answer is, but I know one thing for sure … spin or not, I LOVE SPIDERS! I love their natural variation, I love the combos that they make, I love everything about them. I will always breed and produce spiders. I will do my best to keep my customers informed about them as much as I am and leave the decision to them. If I have to end up keeping every spider and spider I produce … well, that’s fine with me!

This is from 8ball pythons website http://forum.8ballpythons.com/blog/?cat=3&paged=2

Just wondering if anyone else has noticed the spin/wobble in any other morph or wild type? I personally have witnessed this behavior in other morphs, so I don't believe it is only associated with the spider gene. I do find it interesting that it occurs more often with the spider, but I have seen it elsewhere.
In my observations I also believe it to be an equilibrium problem, as it seems that these animals have a hard time determining which way is up. I have seen them lying with their heads upside down, striking prey inverted and corkscrewing their necks backward in a loop.

Anyway I would like to hear from anyone who has seen this trait in balls other than spiders.

Adam

Spiders Wobble.
I think its genetic and neurological. maybe thats why we dont see a super; maybe its lethal in homozygenous form.
Whatever it is, I love my spiders. They are the coolest, most adventuresome snakes in my collection. IMO they are the best candidates for pets of all of the BP morphs out there.

Not to mention they'll screw anything that moves!!!!:banana:

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Originally Posted by astaley

Just wondering if anyone else has noticed the spin/wobble in any other morph or wild type? I personally have witnessed this behavior in other morphs, so I don't believe it is only associated with the spider gene. I do find it interesting that it occurs more often with the spider, but I have seen it elsewhere.
In my observations I also believe it to be an equilibrium problem, as it seems that these animals have a hard time determining which way is up. I have seen them lying with their heads upside down, striking prey inverted and corkscrewing their necks backward in a loop.

Anyway I would like to hear from anyone who has seen this trait in balls other than spiders.

Adam

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YES.....I'm the only one that would agree with this I'm betting......but I hatched a Caramel Albino male last year that does the corkscrewing thing. I need to video and post it soon but finding the time to do so is very hard. On an odd note, that same animal is full of energy so I'm keeping him to see whats going on.

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Originally Posted by southb

YES.....I'm the only one that would agree with this I'm betting......but I hatched a Caramel Albino male last year that does the corkscrewing thing. I need to video and post it soon but finding the time to do so is very hard. On an odd note, that same animal is full of energy so I'm keeping him to see whats going on.

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my bee doesnt corkscrew or wobble like i have seen with alot of spiders, but the snake is very flighty and also when its very excited it does get a little shake especially when feeding time. it also does it if it thinks its escaping its tub

I avoided the spider for years but I ended up getting a really good deal for a male last year and he has none of the so called problems people talk about. I'll find out next year if his offspring will. Kinda glad I waited because I almost spent 800$ for one two years ago at one of the shows, but ended up getting alot cheaper than that. Even he he did do the wobble I'd never sell him, hes a great addition to the family and he is a pet before a breeder.