mojave or not?

i bought this little guy a few weeks ago from a local breeder and she sold him to me as a mojave. but after looking at alot of pictures and reading the identification thread on here im not 100% convinced. now im hoping i didnt just pay alot for a pretty normal :tears:

what do you guys think?

http://thumbnails4.imagebam.com/2571/1a419425707082.gif http://thumbnails10.imagebam.com/257...fb25707083.gif http://thumbnails8.imagebam.com/2571/c02a4f25707084.gif http://thumbnails14.imagebam.com/257...2c25707085.gif http://thumbnails7.imagebam.com/2571/84c4f125707086.gif

also i was wondering if maybe he'll change his colors over time and get the more yellowy color on his head and neck spots

It sure looks like a normal to me.

I'm sorry, but your guy is a cute little normal. Mojaves are generally very contrasty, with greens, silvers and chocolate colors. They also have tons of flames, generally anyway, and blushing. Clear belly is a good indicator too, as are silvered eyes.

its a normal, it wont change color to come even close to a mojave. if I were you I'd ask for my money back

o piss! how should i go about getting my money back? i dont want to offend the lady

That's a really nice looking normal. If you paid mojave money for it, you shouldn't feel a bit bad telling the lady you want the difference back.

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Originally Posted by austinr

o piss! how should i go about getting my money back? i dont want to offend the lady

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There is no offense.

Go straight to her and explain that it isn't a Mojave, when you payed for one. Don't fall for the it's Het. Mojave thing either, because it is a co-dominate gene, and het. co-doms do not exist.
Take pictures of mojaves with if you have to, and explain all of the characteristics your ball does not have that are in a mojave.

-Lots of blushing.
-High contrast yellow back.
-Silver/Chocolate sides.
-CLEAR BELLY (big one! if there is no clear belly, it is definitely not a mojave)

Good mojave picture, not mine.
http://www.for-goodness-snakes.com/i...ll_mojave5.jpg

Good luck!

Definitely not... But nice normal!

how much do mojaves usually go for? he was only $125

i wanna get my money back but i dont wanna give the snake back lol im gonna see if she'll take the price of a normal out of the $125 and put the rest towards the pastel i want

im gonna send them an email first and talk to her in person when i get pinkies next week

and when you say clear belly do you mean patternless or actually kinda transparent?

Mojaves run $300+. Normal CBBs, depending on size go for $35+.

if she was going to sell you a mojave for 125$ well the by all means you should be getting a mojave.

the normal ball we purchased first was $65 bucks and that about the price i see them for everywher else.

this lady and her husband are awesome and hook my gf and i up with all kinds of great deals. im sure its just a case of mis-identification and she didnt purposly sell me the wrong snake

wouldnt it be great if she gave me my money back and let me keep the snake! haha probably wont happen like that but a partial refund or credit toward a snake of my choice would be good with me.

would i be able to mate him to 3 females or is 2 all i can do? cause i have a normal female right now and we are planning on getting a pastel and we want a mojave too. i was really wanting a male mojave so we could make the pastel mojave babies. thats the biggest upset for me to be honest.

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Originally Posted by austinr

and when you say clear belly do you mean patternless or actually kinda transparent?

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here are some pics of my mojave

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...akepics003.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...akepics002.jpg

You mentioned you are getting a pastel too... If I was you I would really take a good look at the thread for identifying pastels so you can make sure it is one before you buy it, ya would hate to end up in the same situation twice.

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Originally Posted by austinr

how much do mojaves usually go for? he was only $125

i wanna get my money back but i dont wanna give the snake back lol im gonna see if she'll take the price of a normal out of the $125 and put the rest towards the pastel i want

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i paid $350 for my mojave last year and he was the nicest one at the show
how much does she want for the pastel? you can get male pastel for $100
make sure the pastel has green eyes.

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Originally Posted by austinr

the normal ball we purchased first was $65 bucks and that about the price i see them for everywher else.

this lady and her husband are awesome and hook my gf and i up with all kinds of great deals. im sure its just a case of mis-identification and she didnt purposly sell me the wrong snake

wouldnt it be great if she gave me my money back and let me keep the snake! haha probably wont happen like that but a partial refund or credit toward a snake of my choice would be good with me.

would i be able to mate him to 3 females or is 2 all i can do? cause i have a normal female right now and we are planning on getting a pastel and we want a mojave too. i was really wanting a male mojave so we could make the pastel mojave babies. thats the biggest upset for me to be honest.

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She didn't make a mistake identifying it - it's clearly not a mojave. And anyone who owns or breeds mojaves would know it's a normal. Are you sure she didn't sell it to you as a "mojave sibling"?

It would still be just a normal, but sometimes people will advertise normals from co-dom/dom clutches as "pastel sibling", "mojave sibling", "pinstripe sibling" etc.

You either mis-understood what she was selling it as, or she intentionally took advantage of you being new to ball pythons and scammed you. You don't "mistake" a normal for a mojave.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...e/Murphy18.jpg

The closest normal I have to looking like a mojave is this girl, who happens to be breeding my mojave this year. But she's also a normal as well:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...andoraJan4.jpg

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Originally Posted by rabernet

you either mis-understood what she was selling it as, or she intentionally took advantage of you being new to ball pythons and scammed you. You don't "mistake" a normal for a mojave.

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exactly!!!

and let me add here that being "sister or brother" to a mojave without being a mojave means absolutely nothing! It is still just a normal.

I would ask for a full refund, and never deal with this person again.

I don't see how you'd get your money back AND get to keep the snake.
It's a normal, and you should return it and get your money back, or keep it, and find another source for morphs, since the lady did basically scam you(unless she sold it to you as a mojave SIBLING).

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I don't see how you'd get your money back AND get to keep the snake.
It's a normal, and you should return it and get your money back, or keep it, and find another source for morphs, since the lady did basically scam you(unless she sold it to you as a mojave SIBLING).

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even if she sold it as a mojave sibling(normal) she severely over charged you

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Originally Posted by nixer

even if she sold it as a mojave sibling(normal) she severely over charged you

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She didn't over charge him, prices are dependent on what he was willing to pay. The owner of the snake sets the price, whatever they think its worth.

Not a Mojave...

Good luck getting your money back!

I would return the normal. Def not a mojave and I have seen some ugly mojaves.

My opinion is to return the normal and get a mojave or the pastel you want. You will be stuck with the snake for at least a few years for breeding might as well get what you want to start off.

well i talked to the people last night and they still think he is a mojave even though i pointed out the thing you said were missing. or if it isnt that they think its het for mojave cause it had mojave parents. can he be het for mojave? someone said not to fall for that

but they are willing to take back the snake and give me a full refund or let me keep the snake and give me a partial refund. im gonna do the later cause i really like the snake

i would agree $125 for a normal is very high and thats not what it was advertised as. she said this is a mojave, and she gave me a few to choose from but the others happend to be females and i wanted a male. ther was no mention of mojave siblings or mojave parents till last night.

alot of you guys are saying return it! return it! it seems like these arent pets to you but more like little money makers. i wanted him first and formost as a pet, the money from breeding him would have just been a bonus since he'll be doing it anyway. thers alot of mojaves out ther that i can get later on, i have plenty of time lol

That's not even close to looking like a Mojave. Why would you pay more for an animal when you yourself don't know what it looks like? Mojave is a codominant trait and so is already a het.

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Originally Posted by SecurityStacey

You mentioned you are getting a pastel too... If I was you I would really take a good look at the thread for identifying pastels so you can make sure it is one before you buy it, ya would hate to end up in the same situation twice.

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already thought about that lol and i read it last night and ill be sure to look at it again before i go and pic out my pastel. she showed me some of them when i got this guy and they were def more colorful and pastel looking

whats the usual price for a pastel?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Mojave is a codominant trait and so is already a het.

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whats that mean to a normal person? are you trying to say a normal cant be het for mojave, only a mojave is het for mojave?

and i would pay that much for it because i trust the lady and i dont think everyone is trying to rip me off all the time

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Originally Posted by monk90222

She didn't over charge him, prices are dependent on what he was willing to pay. The owner of the snake sets the price, whatever they think its worth.

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I strongly agree with this statement. What ever someone is willing to pay for it is what it's worth. :gj:

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Originally Posted by austinr

whats that mean to a normal person? are you trying to say a normal cant be het for mojave, only a mojave is het for mojave?

and i would pay that much for it because i trust the lady and i dont think everyone is trying to rip me off all the time

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What that means to a normal person is that Mojave is a codominant trait and so is already a het. If you don't understand the terminology, then why are you paying extra for it? A Mojave is already heterozygous for the Mojave trait. A snake that is homozygous for the Mojave trait is a mostly white snake with blue eyes.

The fact of the matter is, whether she's doing it on purpose or not, she IS ripping you off because you are not getting what you paid for. If you paid extra money for a car that was supposed to be red with white racing stripes would you be satisfied receiving one that was flat gray?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

What that means to a normal person is that Mojave is a codominant trait and so is already a het. If you don't understand the terminology, then why are you paying extra for it? A Mojave is already heterozygous for the Mojave trait. A snake that is homozygous for the Mojave trait is a mostly white snake with blue eyes.

The fact of the matter is, whether she's doing it on purpose or not, she IS ripping you off because you are not getting what you paid for. If you paid extra money for a car that was supposed to be red with white racing stripes would you be satisfied receiving one that was flat gray?

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i still dont understand what youre saying lol and just because i dont remember all of my highschool biology mean i should buy a snake? so what youre saying is if you dont know what a V8 or turbo charger is you shouldnt buy a truck? kinda silly

shes very willing to give me my money back so she isnt ripping me off. if she were to say you bought it, its your fault for not noticing i dont do refunds, then she would be ripping me off

and sorry to get kinda mouthy with you but i give what i get :D

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Originally Posted by austinr

i still dont understand what youre saying lol and just because i dont remember all of my highschool biology mean i should buy a snake? so what youre saying is if you dont know what a V8 or turbo charger is you shouldnt buy a truck? kinda silly

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If you're paying extra for it, don't you think it would be wise to know what it means?

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Originally Posted by austinr

shes very willing to give me my money back so she isnt ripping me off. if she were to say you bought it, its your fault for not noticing i dont do refunds, then she would be ripping me off

and sorry to get kinda mouthy with you but i give what i get :D

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And if you didn't catch her at it, would you be getting a refund? If she had it advertised as a Mojave, then she was clearly misrepresenting the animal. I supposed it would have been fine and dandy with you if she had sold this animal to someone else who didn't bother to check if it was real?

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=52847

Check that out it explains the genetics in lame man terms. A Mojave is basically a het for blue eyed lucy. There is no het for mojave. I agree with the pet thing don't return it but I would ask for a partial refund. The most I have ever seen a normal go for is $80 and that is steep. Work out a deal to get free feeders or something. I am sure they were not trying to rip you off. They just aren't educated about BP Morphs.
Mojave = Co-dom

:snake2:

DRS
Pure Breed Pythons

ok so let me try to understand this. if i mated a mojave to a mojave i would get mojaves a blue eyed lucys. or would i get mojaves, blue eyed lucys and normals? and if normals were produced wouldnt they be het for mojave since both parent were mojaves? assuming normals can be made like that

or how bout this since this i what i think happend. if i mated a normal to a mojave i would get mojaves and normals. would the normals be partial het for mojave? a simple yes or no will do lol i dont quite understand all the co-dom stuff right now

and what do the numbers in everyones signatures mean? the 0.1 and 2.0 and that stuff

are you happy with your "mojave"...then keep it. do you care whether it makes a bunch of normal babies...NO bc u take those normal babies, breed them to a pastel ur getting.......BAMMMM HETS, and u can sell them and make up you difference for being over charged! end of discussion :groinkick

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Originally Posted by Douglesser

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=52847

Check that out it explains the genetics in lame man terms. A Mojave is basically a het for blue eyed lucy. There is no het for mojave. I agree with the pet thing don't return it but I would ask for a partial refund. The most I have ever seen a normal go for is $80 and that is steep. Work out a deal to get free feeders or something. I am sure they were not trying to rip you off. They just aren't educated about BP Morphs.
Mojave = Co-dom

:snake2:

DRS
Pure Breed Pythons

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nicest reply i have got so far lol yea the normals are $65 from these people but ive seen normals at petco go for like $85 or something. i havent bought any ther but thats their price

im glad that im the only person to suggest that. everybody was so quick to jump on the RETURN THAT NORMAL band wagon, how many people started with a normal, and moved on from there???? i've been in the ball python "world" for about as long as a hot cup of coffee....excuse the het pastel comment

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Originally Posted by nybp

.BAMMMM HETS

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i do know it's a codom. so outta a 4 egg clutch, law of avg. says u get 50/50-pastel and normal:oops::oops:

No you would get plain old normals. If a BP has any genetics for Mojave it would be visually unmistakable.

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Originally Posted by austinr

ok so let me try to understand this. if i mated a mojave to a mojave i would get mojaves a blue eyed lucys. or would i get mojaves, blue eyed lucys and normals? and if normals were produced wouldnt they be het for mojave since both parent were mojaves? assuming normals can be made like that

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it has been said numorous times that there is no het mojave, mojave is a mojave, nomal looking ball pythons produced by a mojave breedings are normals. Nothing more, normals. you would get 25% Blue eyed lucy, 50% mojave, 25% normal from a mojavexmojave beeding

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Originally Posted by douglesser

no you would get plain old normals. If a bp has any genetics for mojave it would be visually unmistakable.

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hence my pastel statement

another thing is if she is so convinced this normal is a mojave, what would stop her from selling the rest of the normal sibblings as 'het mojave' or normal as mojave? I'd put out a post on he on the BOI. not nessisarilly as a 'bad seller' since she is giving you your money bak, but as a look out to watch what you buy from her

Beware snake collecting is very addictive. Have fun with your great looking BP.

DRS
Pure Breed Pythons

ok so after reading that link up ther i see that if you mate 2 co-doms they will make normals but they are just normals no hets. i understand what all you guys are saying now i just had to see it and read about it a little for it to make since

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Originally Posted by Douglesser

Beware snake collecting is very addictive. Have fun with your great looking BP.

DRS
Pure Breed Pythons

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yea i can tell already lol thanks for the info

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Originally Posted by Nagini88

it has been said numorous times that there is no het mojave, mojave is a mojave, nomal looking ball pythons produced by a mojave breedings are normals. Nothing more, normals. you would get 25% Blue eyed lucy, 50% mojave, 25% normal from a mojavexmojave beeding

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yea i got that but nobody said why so it made ZERO sense until i read it. everyone is very quick to say no but wont explain why which makes things very hard to understand

ok if you went along with paying for this snake and such (didn't continue reading thread cause it was ridiculous) so i don't know.
you were scammed and the worst part about it is you think you weren't! cmon your asking the "pros" as you stated. take their word no one here tends to lead people in the wrong way. :colbert::colbert:
Why ask advice and not take it? There is NO HET FOR MOJAVE

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Originally Posted by drew2420

ok if you went along with paying for this snake and such (didn't continue reading thread cause it was ridiculous) so i don't know.
you were scammed and the worst part about it is you think you weren't! cmon your asking the "pros" as you stated. take their word no one here tends to lead people in the wrong way. :colbert::colbert:
Why ask advice and not take it? There is NO HET FOR MOJAVE

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ok drew, why post if youre just going to be a jerk. and only 1 and i repeat 1 person actually wrote the words ther is no het for mojave. i kept asking if ther was and people were saying all this scientific stuff that i dont understand. and if you would have read you would see i did take their advice and request a refund. thankyou for being stupid

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Originally Posted by Nagini88

it has been said numorous times that there is no het mojave, mojave is a mojave, nomal looking ball pythons produced by a mojave breedings are normals. Nothing more, normals. you would get 25% Blue eyed lucy, 50% mojave, 25% normal from a mojavexmojave beeding

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this is the only person who answered my question and thankyou for that but i dont agree that it was said numerous time that ther is no het mojave because ive read everything over a few times and this is the first time its actaully said like that

The only reason people will telly ou to return it is because you said you wanted a mojave. That snake has no genes for mojave, so we would advise returning it. Since you said you want to keep it as a pet, then fine. You should be glad she is offering you a partial refund, since if she REALLY thought it was a mojave, she would not offer a partial refund at all. She knows it's a normal, and none of us want to see you deal with someone who is selling normals as mojaves.
For simple terms, a mojave ball python shows it's genetics in the colors and patterns of it's skin. It's a co-dom gene. If it has the mojave gene, it shows the mojave pattern and coloration. If it does not have the mojave gene, it looks like a normal, because it has NO mojave genes.
If you have a snake with TWO mojave genes, then it will show as a all white snake called a luetistic.
If you get a pastel from this same person, I would be very leery, and be sure to look for green eyes, and the pastel colors and blushing. Feel free to ask what signs to specifically look for, so you get a pastel, and not another normal. There is also no het for pastel, just like there is no het for mojave.
I hope this explains it, and I hope you enjoy your pet, as much as later on you may enjoy your morphs.

thankyou wolfy-hound. i read through the pastel identifying threda and ill make sure to read it again before i pick it out just to make sure ther is no other mixup