Snow- why don't you see more of them

i rarely see snows around. i think they are good looking snakes. they have great genetics to back them up but i hardly see them. is it becasue of the BELs? now you can have an all white snake with colored eyes so theres not too much interest in snows anymore?

just curious...

All of the other white snakes killed the demand for the snows. For me it's not a project I would want to get into, but I am sure there are still some people out there that prefer the snows look to other snakes that are closer to pure white. If you are thinking of getting into a snow project just make sure you look at some adult snows first. Many of them end up with a lot more yellow as adults than most people think. Another reason I don't think you see many is that it is just so much harder to make a snow than the other white snake types. I would bet there are not a whole lot of people working on the project anymore. It's a 1 in 16 snake and they are still hard to produce unless you aready have a visual snow breeder.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

All of the other white snakes killed the demand for the snows. For me it's not a project I would want to get into, but I am sure there are still some people out there that prefer the snows look to other snakes that are closer to pure white. If you are thinking of getting into a snow project just make sure you look at some adult snows first. Many of them end up with a lot more yellow as adults than most people think. Another reason I don't think you see many is that it is just so much harder to make a snow than the other white snake types. I would bet there are not a whole lot of people working on the project anymore. It's a 1 in 16 snake and they are still hard to produce unless you aready have a visual snow breeder.

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It's alot easier to go with a co-dom morph to produce a white snake just like he said. Plus alot of snows I've seen do not look white after they have some age on them. They look like very faded albinos with the yellow showing.

I agree with John. Compared to other "white snakes", snow ball pythons are very expensive. I see female snows for sale at some trade shows but I seldom see male snows. They are still rare. This keeps the price high. People producing snows are keeping their males but have been letting go of females. They are rare because a lot of breeders trying to produce them are still at the double het x double het phase so they are playing the 1:16 game. Unless you are a large breeder you will be hard pressed to give up one of your females albinos/axanthics to a 1 in 16 shot when there are so many other things that are more sure.

Also consider the value of the ingredients. At this particular point in time, people who have adult albinos and adult axanthics are more likely to do something else with them. There is a lot of effort being made today to produce visual co-dom or dominant animals that are het albino and het axanthic. Axanthic Black Pastels and Albino Pinstripes (for example) are more interesting and that's where the effort is right now.

Also, where are you going to go with a snow? So many of the current projects have opportunity beyond them. For example, Spinner Blasts are a big desired result for a lot of breeders. But look where you can go beyond that: Axanthic Spinner Blast, Super Spinner Blast, Spider Spinner Blast, Lesser Blast, Killer Lesser Blast, ...and on and on and on. As I always say: it is ENDLESS. But the Snow Ball Python seems to be an end. Unless one of these other genes added into the snow combo causes something crazy to happen it won't matter. Will a Snow Spider look really any different than a regular snow? Probably not. So why bother? That seems to be the attitude.

Sadly, this is a disease. Despite considering them a reasonably dead-end project, I still want them in my collection and I will still produce them. I can't help it. Methadone doesn't work for my ball python addiction.

:confused:

I tend to disagree...I for one think Snows look alot different than Super Mojaves and other 'white snake' combos mentioned above? :confused:

...I think it's just an overlooked project and morph that people arent willing to take the time to go after beings you are working with reccesive traits rather than codoms...People want to take the quick route. I think you have to see a snow in person to really respect the time and effort put into making them. I disagree with them being a 'dead end' morph also. How can you call it a 'dead end' morph when there are so few people working with them now? ....there is still a pattern with snows...so there are more combos possible out there.

...I am working towards Carmel Snows at the moment...and I suspect they will look nothing like a 'white snake'...just my opinion tho. :salute:

I'm working on Snows :)

Double Recessives will always be awesome

great points everyone. anyone have a pic of an adult?

to me it would seem like a good project to get into if you are a full time breeder. once you have one then you have a "short cut" to producing both axanthics and albinos with one snake. which is probably why people are keeping males instead of females. this way you can run the male through both axantic hets and albino hets and produce something that is in somewhat of a demand.

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

to me it would seem like a good project to get into if you are a full time breeder. once you have one then you have a "short cut" to producing both axanthics and albinos with one snake. which is probably why people are keeping males instead of females. this way you can run the male through both axantic hets and albino hets and produce something that is in somewhat of a demand.

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I'm not a full time breeder...

:confuzd:

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

I'm not a full time breeder...

:confuzd:

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Ditto...

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

I'm not a full time breeder...

:confuzd:

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thats fine. then you will be in a good postion too. i am just making the point that this morph would be a good one to have.

Snows aren't your typical white snake, and they're not easy to produce. Anyone whos' seen Brian Sharp's snows knows that he's the man to go to for them. I hear that he's literally got a snow factory going on over at his joint. :)

I would still like to get some snow in my collection to. I would have to agree that it is not a "Dead-End Morph" mix it with any pattern mutation Spider, Pin, Clown, ect. I am also sure there are traits that would clean up the little bit of yellow that shows through with age.... IDK maybe a fire snow would clean it up kind of a contradiction in names but hey what would you call it?
My other thought is with the Energy Ball and I forgot the other at the moment. They look more like what most people would expect a snow to look like White with a different shade of white pattern.... then again we don't know how they will age yet but I think the Ivory or lucy part of those combos will keep the yellow out of the animal.

In addition I would like to see a "Moonglow" ball, the Hypo Snow. I wouldn't expect it to look like the Moonglow boa but I think it would be beautiful in its own right.

I don't think that some people realize what a power house that snake would be. Think about it, you breed your female snow to say a spider. The next season you breed your male double het spiders back to mom, the worse you're going to get is a double het snow, and the best would be a Snow Spider, inbetween that you got Axanthics, Albinos, Spider Albinos, Spider Axanthics. That's a lot coming from 1 clutch.

And Yeah I'd love to make/have a Moon Glow ball. I'm already intending to go for a Albino, Hypo, Pie Ball.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

I don't think that some people realize what a power house that snake would be. Think about it, you breed your female snow to say a spider. The next season you breed your male double het spiders back to mom, the worse you're going to get is a double het snow, and the best would be a Snow Spider, inbetween that you got Axanthics, Albinos, Spider Albinos, Spider Axanthics. That's a lot coming from 1 clutch.

And Yeah I'd love to make/have a Moon Glow ball. I'm already intending to go for a Albino, Hypo, Pie Ball.

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Talk about getting into the Lottery Odds.... Triple Recesive. That is what 1/32 or 1/64...either way your talking multiple clutches to hit the odds if your not lucky

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Originally Posted by JAMills

Talk about getting into the Lottery Odds.... Triple Recesive.

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Yeah but the Hypo Albino is Orange. Can you imagine a Pie Ball version of that!? Oh yeah that's a 1/64 chance by the way :).

I've got a snow project going as well, but mine is mostly for the reason of having one in my collection. I like RDR's snow and I think the VPI snow is cleaner than other Axanthic lines.

I've got a way to go though for now as I am breeding a dbl het male to a het Axanthic Female this year and next year he will be with a Het Albino girl. Then since he is 100% het he will get bred back to his daughters when they are big enough.

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Originally Posted by Gloryhound

I've got a snow project going as well, but mine is mostly for the reason of having one in my collection. I like RDR's snow and I think the VPI snow is cleaner than other Axanthic lines.

I've got a way to go though for now as I am breeding a dbl het male to a het Axanthic Female this year and next year he will be with a Het Albino girl. Then since he is 100% het he will get bred back to his daughters when they are big enough.

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Ralph has all three lines of snows. His VPI's are smokin though. I my DH's breeding again this year. I got my albino, axanthic, and some pos. DH's last year so it'd be nice to hit this year.

Heather is your snow project breeding for you yet?

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

I'm working on Snows :)

Double Recessives will always be awesome

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I had no idea. Oh Heather you're so full of surprises. I agree with the double recessives. They are fancy. I am not working on any at the moment but plan on doing something with a ghost eventually.

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Originally Posted by briz

Heather is your snow project breeding for you yet?

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Kinda???

We'll see if I hit on it :)

Anytime you have a double recessive you arent gonna see many. Especially nowadays with so many genetic combinations and possibilities the snow project has alot more competition than it used to.

I plan on making my own snows. They are MY favorite morph!

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

:confused:

I tend to disagree...I for one think Snows look alot different than Super Mojaves and other 'white snake' combos mentioned above? :confused:

...I think it's just an overlooked project and morph that people arent willing to take the time to go after beings you are working with reccesive traits rather than codoms...People want to take the quick route. I think you have to see a snow in person to really respect the time and effort put into making them. I disagree with them being a 'dead end' morph also. How can you call it a 'dead end' morph when there are so few people working with them now? ....there is still a pattern with snows...so there are more combos possible out there.

...I am working towards Carmel Snows at the moment...and I suspect they will look nothing like a 'white snake'...just my opinion tho. :salute:

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i agree, i rather think snows have a complete different look, and i accually like them more, than lucys.

not to say i wouldnt mind having a lucy :rolleyes:

i agree with whoever said its cause there recessive...
and the odds are 1 in 16 for a snow...

theres definately not as many available compared to ivories, bels, (i assume...)

its old info, i know that a lot more have been produced since, but...i was reading in 2003 there were only like 5 snows in the world (ralph davis website)..so by now there might be a good amount...
but the 1 in 16 odds is a killer

but its a good reason to go after this project to, i could imagine how good that would fool to hatch a snow....consider unless your really lucky itd be a few tries...

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Originally Posted by azpythons

and the odds are 1 in 16 for a snow...

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1 in 16 for Double Hets, if you have a Albino Het Snow or a Axanthic Het Snow you cut your chances down to 1/8.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

1 in 16 for Double Hets, if you have a Albino Het Snow or a Axanthic Het Snow you cut your chances down to 1/8.

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thank you:salute:

I love snows they are one of my favorite morphs. After i get done making albino mojaves im making some snows. Im short the axanthics right now. Maybe in 2009 ill pick a couple up.
You will see more snows comming out in the next couple of years.

I think the Lucys have made a dent in the snow interest but those who overlook them are not thinking clearly. If you breed a snow to anything you get great projects. Breed it to an albino pied and you will get all Albinos 100% het for Axanthic and Pied. Even if you do not care about the 3 recessive combo the triple het eggs would be great fun to hatch. The reason you do not see males is anyone doing this project needs them to better their odds. Females are great to have as well. I have been lucky to hatch some and it is just plain luck.

Thanks Ryan Young

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...es/SnowAlb.jpg

has anyone produced a lavy snow yet?

Because it takes a year to get double hets, takes another couple of years until there matured. then you have to hit the 1 in 16 odds, another couple of years. Just for 1 or 2 Snows. Its much easier to produce Luecistics.

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

has anyone produced a lavy snow yet?

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No but I know people working on the project.

i have a snow project in the works for 2010! if i hit the odds you know :)

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Originally Posted by AaronP

No but I know people working on the project.

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i think that one will look amazing!