is this a 100% het peid marker(please help)

Im interested in purchasing some 100% het pieds but the guy dosent have papers or proof that they are 100% het, but swears they are. but they have this weird black marker on their bellies near the vent, i was wondering if you guys could clear this up for me and if you have any pics of examples of 100% het pied markers that can help me thanks.. they are both female if that
differs... also i have pics of the snakes but i have no idea how to attach a pic i tried for like 1 hour if you can help with that it would be appreciated

There is a marker that some people think is a sign for het pied, Ralph Davis believes in the marker alot. I don't have any pics and I don't know how sure you want to be of the snakes actually are het. In either case, the marker is not a dead give away that it actually is a het, any snake can have the marker by chance, it just seems like the het pieds got the marker alot more often.

Hope I made some sense...

Hi,

Ok picture posting thing first. :)

Well the first thing is to get them hosted somewhere online.

you can put them in your gallery here - this tutorial is a bit old but the basic procedure is the same I think.

And here is another one in video form that might also help.

You can also use a site like http://photobucket.com/

They should also have tutorials to help you.

If you still have trouble just ask any member of staff and we will do our best to get you sorted. :gj:

Now onto the snakes.

As Doxter stated the marker is not a definate guarantee that they are het pied.

Your best bet would be to do some research on the seller to see if anyone can vouch for him or if he has any questions against his name - check on the BOI on faunaclassifieds and in the inquieries section on here.

Does he have any visual pieds? If he doesn't you should ask where he got the hets from.

If in any doubt buy from a reliable, trusted breeder. Remember if the deal seems too good to be true it probably isn't. But check the guy out - if he is on the up and up he shouldn't mind.


dr del

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Originally Posted by MattZ BallZ

Im interested in purchasing some 100% het pieds but the guy dosent have papers or proof that they are 100% het, but swears they are. but they have this weird black marker on their bellies near the vent, i was wondering if you guys could clear this up for me and if you have any pics of examples of 100% het pied markers that can help me thanks.. they are both female if that
differs... also i have pics of the snakes but i have no idea how to attach a pic i tried for like 1 hour if you can help with that it would be appreciated

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With the affordability of het pieds, I would pass on purchasing animals with no genetics guarantee behind them from a reputable breeder.

Don't count on markers - count on the reputation of the person who produced them and is willing to back them up on paper.

For example, if I ever sell my het pied male, I still have the genetics guarantee paperwork, complete with photo of the animal from Adam of 8ballpythons.

Anyone can make a genetics guarantee on paper. That's why it's more important that the person behind that guarantee is reputable.

I've owned several normals in the past, including a few females, that had a perfect 'piebald' marker on the underside of the tail...

As they came from small, hole in the wall petshops, (with cheap prices) I am absolutely certain they were not hets, especially the girls (this was a few years back, when females from pied litters, even possible hets, commanded a rather large price).

Without papers, I would be very cautious...as I think the 'pied' marker happens in many wild type balls, and really has nothing to do with the pied mutation itself.

here is a pic he sent me of the snake???? your thoughts and ill take your info into concideration thanks for the help guys, i dont think ill buy them. but then again they are 500-600 g each and he is willing except $400 for both.. so even if i buy them im not breaking bank..

http://s463.photobucket.com/albums/q...bleHetPied.jpg

Don't buy any snake that has a het marker and expect it to be het for anything. If you seriously want a het snake find a reputable breeder (many found on this site) and buy the guaranteed animal. If in years time you can't prove out the animal call him out, but don't set yourself up for disappointment and think just because something looks like gold it won't be gold plated. Get what I mean?

I'd shop around and see what possible het pieds are going for (I honestly don't know right now) and offer the market rate for POSSIBLE het pieds, since he can't guarantee their genetics. At least you'll be at a more fair price if you're set on buying this particular pair.

$400 for a pair of normals is a lot of money to me (if they don't prove out).

Tim Bailey is selling possible het pied females for $100 and possible het pied males for $50.

http://www.baileyreptiles.com/08piedav.html

Without paperwork, that's what I'd value the two you're considering at.

I wouldnt get it.
i only buy from someone i trust or a reputable breeder.
the "het pied markers" dont mean anything.
the Het pied we have does have them, BUT so does a normal we have...

it really doesnt prove anything.
and the only way you will know is to prove it out.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y81...PiedMBelly.jpg

Thats a Het Marker

This is a Het Marker

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y81...PiedFBelly.jpg



Notice near the vent how the belly is clear, but still having the bold side stripes.




but If he doesnt have proof.....I wouldn't do it.


Even normals sometimes show the markers for Het traits

Here's one of my het pied females "pied marker:"

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...9/HPNX0042.jpg

Those that are skeptical of the het pied "marker" are missing something. Who here has het Pieds? Notice anything besides the striping? Look a little closer.

Ripley's............

You've got me "hooked" :D

also note under that pic link the OP posted it says possible het pied

Het pied males are so cheap id just buy a 100% het. Its not like you can breed them this season anyways.

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Originally Posted by FIEND_FO_LYFE

I wouldnt get it.
i only buy from someone i trust or a reputable breeder.
the "het pied markers" dont mean anything.
the Het pied we have does have them, BUT so does a normal we have...

it really doesnt prove anything.
and the only way you will know is to prove it out.

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Can you post a pic of both of these animals' bellies side by side? As I've been saying, there is more to it than black stripes.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

Can you post a pic of both of these animals' bellies side by side? As I've been saying, there is more to it than black stripes.

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Just curious as to what you think in addition to the black stripes and clear belly?

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Originally Posted by JAMills

Just curious as to what you think in addition to the black stripes and clear belly?

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Bellies aren't exactly "clear". ;)

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Originally Posted by MattZ BallZ

Im interested in purchasing some 100% het pieds but the guy dosent have papers or proof that they are 100% het

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i dont think ill buy them. but then again they are 500-600 g each and he is willing except $400 for both.. so even if i buy them im not breaking bank..

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You should pass do not buy hets based on markers alone. :colbert:

Yes some het pieds have markers but there are also some that do not, there are also normals exhibiting the same traits.

If you spend the money with him based on markers and markers only, and they do not prove out you will be VERY disappointed, get some het Pieds from a REPUTABLE breeder that will guarantee the genetics and stand behind their animals this will save you the possible disappointment.

It’s not about being a believer in those markers or being a believer it is about not buying het based only those markers (especially coming from an unknown seller that cannot prove the genetics of the animals.)

In my opinion, if they ARE possible hets produced from proven hets, at that weight the price is fair market value if they do have true markers. As I've mentioned over and over and over, there is more to it than just a "clear" belly and posterior belly stripes. I've had normals with "striped" bellies as some have said, but they are not the same as pied markers. The marker IS real. Yes, not all hets have the markers, but when shopping for pos. hets, it is a VERY GOOD indicator of a het. A 100% het female at 600 grams would be in the $600-800 range...and more depending on who you buy from. I've also seen normal females at 600 grams for around $100 on average.

I also want to add, EVERY SINGLE 100% het pied and VERY LARGE number of my 66% and 50% possible hets have the markers. EVERY Pastel het Pied I've produced had the marker. There is a reason Pete Kahl sold all of his 100% hets and kept all of his possible hets for breeding stock. He is the largest producer of Pieds in the WORLD because he knows what to look for. He sold what was going to make him more money while knowing which pos. hets were actually hets. He is not the only "big" breeder that buys stock in the het pied marker theory.

Please don't take my post as offensive. It is not meant in that way at all. As others have also mentioned, know who you are buying from and know what to look for. Do your research and make sure you are able to take a loss should it not prove to your satisfaction. Both of my original hets purchased in 2003 have very strong markers and have passed it on to all hets as well as many possible hets including 66% and 50% pos hets. Reputation goes a long way and I never recieved paperwork with my hets, nor have I ever had to provide paperwork with any of mine. If it's requested, I would be happy to provide it as I'm sure any well respected breeder would too.

hey brandon thanks for the info buddy, i went and got them today, and for what, a old rack i had lying around in my basement. lol it cost me $150 to make it and it was in ok condition. but the guy liked it so hes happy and hopefully ill be too soon. now im just gonna have to prove them 2 girls out. but they both have weird markings ill get pics up tomorrow of them and if you get this b4 i post them up let me know what parts to focus on mostly in the pics so i may show you and you can tell me...thanks guys for all the replies this site rocks!!!!!!!!1111

Congratulations!

I like the look of the three scale wide white lined belly on the one you posted. I'm a little less sure on what to look for on top but many of my possible hets with the belly marks are also fairly bright colored and with hooks in the pattern and reduced pattern toward the tail end.

As already pointed out and a moot point now you want to do your research on fauna classifieds for any seller and make sure their story checks out as much as possible. I probably wouldn't have paid that much for no info pet store girls (i.e. the only way it would have been going by the marker only) but if the seller checks out and is claiming 100% het then with markers like that I bet they will make you happy with your investment.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

There is a reason Pete Kahl sold all of his 100% hets and kept all of his possible hets for breeding stock.

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That's actually not accurate. Pete has lots of 100% het pieds that he produced and held back ... of all ages.

Not trying to break your ball pythons or anything, just trying to make sure the record is clear.

Hope this helps.

-adam

Normals can carry the 'marker' too. If someone brought that up already I'm sorry, but am kinda tired to read 3 pages.

Here is a normal female I have that has the 'marker'
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/PICT3419.jpg


I also go through hundreds of imported baby ball pythons yearly with the same markings. Could they be het pieds? Sure. Are they? Most likely, no.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

That's actually not accurate. Pete has lots of 100% het pieds that he produced and held back ... of all ages.

Not trying to break your ball pythons or anything, just trying to make sure the record is clear.

Hope this helps.

-adam

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True Adam. I probably shouldn't have said all, but I do know he kept a large number of possible hets back. I'm sure now, he doesn't have to keep any pos. hets back producing all the pieds and hets he does.

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Originally Posted by RKO

Normals can carry the 'marker' too. If someone brought that up already I'm sorry, but am kinda tired to read 3 pages.

Here is a normal female I have that has the 'marker'
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/PICT3419.jpg


I also go through hundreds of imported baby ball pythons yearly with the same markings. Could they be het pieds? Sure. Are they? Most likely, no.

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Sure it looks similar, but not exactly. The striping on het pieds is clean without the bleed over/smudging as seen on your animal. The belly is also clear except for, and here's the other part I've noticed, yellow-orange smudging in some places. I've not only noticed this on all of my animals, but friends' animals too. The smudging is similar to that of a ringer. Some believe and some don't. After all the hets and pos. het I've produced, I believe.

ok ill be posting the pics up today after classes but i have to say they look very nice and one has crazy head fade and who knows i didnt spend any money really just an old rack i had gathering dust so i ok with the fact that they could be just normals. this guy basically sold all hid balls off and is now just keeping boas, so he may just wanted them gone. idk but ill find out soon they are both in the 500 g range...

here are the pics fellas let me know what you think...

http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...emale2pic2.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...emale1pic1.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...emale1pic2.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...emale1pic4.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...emale1pic5.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...emale2pic1.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...emale2pic3.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...emale2pic4.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...emale2pic5.jpg

these are pics of 2 different snakes believed to be 100% het pied let me know what you think here the link
so you can see pics of both..
http://s463.photobucket.com/albums/qq351/mattzballz/