Killer Bee Pied????

I saw a video with this kid telling you how to produce a killer bee pied. He said one has already been produced? Let me know what you think, oh and heres the vid...YouTube - killer bee piebald ball python

IDK, but the Bee pied has been made so Im sure that it could be out there. BTW the the way the kid explained how to make it is wrong.

the way the kid explained it will work just fine....not the best chances or the best way to go about it....but correct

I'm pretty sure you can't do that, if anything you would if anything need 2 killerbees het for Pied. Don't quote me on this one, not into designer pieds myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThyTempest

the way the kid explained it will work just fine....not the best chances or the best way to go about it....but correct

---

He says " Breed the killer bee to the peid and get killer bees 100% het pieds" instead you would get pastels and bees 100% het pied.

He has one for sale with DBDs name on it ( no joke)

http://secure.onlineplugins.com/roussis/available.cfm

Edit wait no he does not, he has it labled as " Killer pied" but instead it is just a super pastel pied.

Like beardedragon already stated, that is not how you would produce a killer bee pied. A killer bee x a pied would not give you any killer bees. Just bumble bees and pastels het for pied.
What is it about the killer bee that people just don't understand??

My bad guys, just went through the vid again. I filled in the gaps in my head without realizing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by panthercz

Like beardedragon already stated, that is not how you would produce a killer bee pied. A killer bee x a pied would not give you any killer bees. Just bumble bees and pastels het for pied.
What is it about the killer bee that people just don't understand??

---

Im wondering the same thing. Ive lost count of how many people know genetics but get killer bees mixed up. I mean, all it is is a super pastel spider:taz:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThyTempest

the way the kid explained it will work just fine....not the best chances or the best way to go about it....but correct

---

Actually he said you would get a Killerbee het pied from a Killerbee x Pied pairing.That isnt correct but rather wishful thinking....
Bestcase scenario you would get a bumblebee het pied.If you bred two of those together you would have a chance at a killerbee pied.The kid is obviously interested in snakes and genetics so I'm not trying to trash him rather point him in the right direction.

OK In the time it took me to post his mistakes were pointed out.I wasnt trying to be redundant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBD

I saw a video with this kid telling you how to produce a killer bee pied. He said one has already been produced? Let me know what you think, oh and heres the vid...

---

I'm not going to correct his genetics since it has already been done above. I just wanted to point out that if you were trying to produce a Killerbee Pied, it could be done with as little as a Bee het Pied to a Pastel Het Pied. Even though a Killerbee het Pied x Killerbee het Pied does increase your chances of producing the Killerbee Pied, it'd be better to pair a Bee het Pied with a Super Pastel het Pied or pair a Bee het Pied with a Pastel Pied. If you are taking the route that was suggested in the video, there's no need to have both snakes carry all of the genes when you are working with co-dom and dom morphs. Since there hasn't (to my knowledge) been a proven Homozygous Spider (and it is assumed that there isn't a "Super Spider" in the sense that it physically differs from the Heterozygous form), there is no need to include the Spider gene on both sides of the equation. It does increase your chances that each baby has of receiving the Spider gene, but it also adds multiple years of unneeded work to raise up that additional animal/generation.

he said in the beginning roussi reptiles did it but if he has ive never learned of it yet

If the kid is trying to say he has done it then he would have to been 3yrs old when he started the project :P.I think he is just talking about how someone "could" do it :gj:

Hi,

Incidently while looking for pics of such an animal :ninja: I couldn't help stopping to gawp at Roussis reptiles other (yeah, like they have only one :rolleyes: ) totally amazing line - the zebra pastel. :bow: :bow: :bow:

Can you imagine a killer bee made with one of those?


dr del

Hi,

Just thinking about this - doesn't the fact it has a spider gene element mean a killerbee pied would just look like a spied with a cleaner head?


dr del

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beardedragon

He says " Breed the killer bee to the peid and get killer bees 100% het pieds" instead you would get pastels and bees 100% het pied.

He has one for sale with DBDs name on it ( no joke)

http://secure.onlineplugins.com/roussis/available.cfm

Edit wait no he does not, he has it labled as " Killer pied" but instead it is just a super pastel pied.

---

LOL You really weren't joking :D

how about this:

(spider het pied * pastel het pied) * (spider het pied * pastel het pied)

dont know i'm just new to genetics to :D

To get a Killer Bee, both parents MUST have the pastel gene. Two Pastels provide a 25% possibility of a SuperPastel, which is part of what is required for a Killer Bee. The other part of a Killer Bee is the Spider gene. This means that at a minimum, one parent MUST be a Bumblebee to get a Killer Bee. It is genetically impossible to produce a Killer Bee without either a Bumble Bee or a Killer Bee as one of the parents.

To produce a Pied, both parents must be at least het for Pied. This means that to produce a Pied Killer Bee, one parent MUST be either a Bumble Bee (preferably a Killer Bee) AND either at least het Pied (preferably homogeneous Pied). The other parent MUST be at least a Pastel (preferably a Super Pastel) AND at least a het Pied (preferably homogeneous Pied).

Therefore, the "cheapest" possible parents of a Killer Bee Pied are:
Bumblebee het-Pied
Pastel het-Pied

Each offspring will have the following possibility of producing each of the following morphs:
1/32 Killer Bee Pied
2/32 Bumble Bee Pied
1/32 Spider Pied
1/32 Super Pastel Pied
2/32 Pastel Pied
1/32 Pied
3/32 Killer Bee 66% PossHetPied
6/32 Bumble Bee 66% PossHetPied
3/32 Spider 66% PossHetPied
3/32 Super Pastel 66% PossHetPied
6/32 Pastel 66% PossHetPied
3/32 66% PossHetPied

The odds are much better with a Bumblebee Pied and a Pastel Pied (no hets):
1/8 Killer Bee Pied
2/8 BumbleBee Pied
1/8 Spider Pied
1/8 Super Pastel Pied
2/8 Pastel Pied
1/8 Pied

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seadevil

how about this:

(spider het pied * pastel het pied) * (spider het pied * pastel het pied)

dont know i'm just new to genetics to :D

---

Spider het pied * pastel het pied:
1/16 Bumble Bee Pied
1/16 Pastel Pied
1/16 Spider Pied
1/16 Pied
3/16 Bumble Bee 66% PossHetPied
3/16 Pastel 66% PossHetPied
3/16 Spider 66% PossHetPied
3/16 66% PossHetPied

Breed the BumbleBee Pieds from both lines (breeding siblings causes genetic defects, so mating pairs should always come from separate lines) together for the best probability of producing Killer Bee Pieds. This is a valid genetic path to Killer Bee Pieds. You may be new to genetics, but you seem to have a firm grasp of this one!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KenAmelio

Spider het pied * pastel het pied:
1/16 Bumble Bee Pied
1/16 Pastel Pied
1/16 Spider Pied
1/16 Pied
3/16 Bumble Bee 66% PossHetPied
3/16 Pastel 66% PossHetPied
3/16 Spider 66% PossHetPied
3/16 66% PossHetPied

Breed the BumbleBee Pieds from both lines (breeding siblings causes genetic defects, so mating pairs should always come from separate lines) together for the best probability of producing Killer Bee Pieds. This is a valid genetic path to Killer Bee Pieds. You may be new to genetics, but you seem to have a firm grasp of this one!

---

Technically, breeding siblings does not "cause" genetic defects. It does make it much more likely that a hidden genetic defect will show up. Based on what I've read, a lot of people have in-bred and line-bred BPs for at least a few generations without seeing negative effects of it. There are some exceptions; I think Ralph Davis is working with something (I don't remember the morph, sorry) that produced a clutch of badly deformed snakes which he thinks may be due to inbreeding. I agree with you; it is better to use separate lines when possible to avoid the possibility.

Also, while this is a valid path, it is not one that is likely to produce a killer bee pied very soon. You could go years with the first crossing before you produced a pair of bumblebee pieds. Actually, you'd only need one if it was the opposite sex of the pastel het pied parent, or if you got a pastel pied of the opposite sex, so that would increase your odds somewhat.

The real problem with this path is that if it isn't a visual pied, you don't even know if it is a het or not. To deal with that, if you didn't get the bumblebee pied, you do have a 1/4 chance of getting some sort of visual pied, or 1/8 chance of it being a male, so you could breed him back to the female parent and any female siblings. That would produce a lot of different possible snakes, and most of them could increase your odds of eventually hitting the killer bee pied. At least you know even the ones that aren't visual are het pied. But now we are talking 3 generations to get there, although it might be fewer years than waiting to hit the 1/16 odds of the bumblebee pied before you can even start on the second generation, depending on your luck.

It would be simpler to go this route:

(bumblebee * pied) * (bumblebee * pied)

In the first generation you'd get:
1/4 bumblebee het pied
1/4 spider het pied
1/4 pastel het pied
1/4 het pied

You can either breed 2 bumblebee het pied together, or one bumblebee pied to a pastel het pied. Using this route you have better odds of getting the morphs you need in the first generation, plus you know every one of them is het pied. You'll still have long odds of getting the killer bee pied in the 2nd generation, but overall it seems better this way. Of course, it probably costs more to buy a bumblebee and a visual pied than a pastel het pied and a spider het pied, and for some people the initial investment might be more of a concern than how long it takes to get to the end product.

I don't even see the point of producing this snake anyway, since I'm not terribly fond of the spied in the first place. But it is fun to think out the genetics problems. Imagine something like an axanthic killer bee instead!

Hi,

Indeed the axanthic killerbee is one of the most stunning animals I have ever seen pictures of. :bow: :bow:

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ner...-axanthic.html


dr del

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Indeed the axanthic killerbee is one of the most stunning animals I have ever seen pictures of. :bow: :bow:

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ner...-axanthic.html


dr del

---

OOOooo They got the pics up! Those little guys are too cool :D. They had a clutch of 5 eggs with 3 killerbee axanthics, 1 axanthic and 1 killerbee! How's that for odds?

I didn't mean to hit the thanks, I meant to hit the quote. lol.

But yeah... Axanthic killer bee is one of the most stunning animals I've ever seen. They are the only and only reason I'm beginning to re-think my original idea that I would never own anything spider.

So would a Killer Queen Pied end up being all white? Or the all white body with the Killer Queen head?