Buyers beware!

Today I went to the All Maryland Reptile Show in Havre de Grace, Maryland looking to buy a normal male baby ball python. The expo was amazing, they had a lot of great snakes, and anything else anyone owning or thinking about owning a snake would need. When I first entered the expo I immediately hit every table to check out what different breeders were selling, looked at some really nice snakes, and to look for my newest pet! To make a long story short, I walked around twice just to make sure I had seen all of the potential snakes that I would consider buying. Toward the end of my walk around I lay my eyes on this beautiful little baby ball female (not even a foot long), with the most amazing pattern. She looked nice, had clean vents, no wheezing, actively flicked tounge, skin was not too loose as it was a baby, eyes clear, gripped firmly but gently, everything SEEMED to be perfect. So, I went in expecting to get a baby male and walked out with a female hatchling. BTW I was sanitizing my hand with purell after holding each snake.

I was so excited to get her home and put her in the tank so that she could get used to her new enviornment. Havre de Grace is about a 1 hour drive, so on the car ride home I had her between my legs in the little tub she came in with my hands cupped around the tub (to keep it warm) and below the air holes of course so that she could breathe. I also had towel over her to keep it dark. During this time I was periodically checking on her to make sure she was okay. She made it through the car trip, and before I put her in her actual tank I quarantined her to make sure she did not have mites or anything else. I stepped out of the room for about 30 minutes to each lunch, and when I came back she was dead!! She was lying lifeless on her side, I could not believe it. The quarantine tank had everything that the snake needed including two hides, a waterbowl, white paper towels as substrate and appropriate heat with 2 thermostats and a hygrometer. I have absolutely no idea how this happened or what could have caused the death, everything with the husbandry was perfect. I bought the snake from Adam Kuhn of Adam Kuhn Captive Bred Reptiles, and I believe that he sold me a sick snake. I took his buisness card when I purchased her, and when I called him and told him what happened he was not helpful in trying to remedy the situation at all. He said that I would have to wait until the next show on Feburary 15th (almost six weeks from now) in which he would pay the $7.00 for admission and then provide me with a new snake! He did not offer another snake free of charge, and when I offered to pay for shipping he deterred me and said that it would cost me at least $50.00. Not only was he unwilling to replace my snake at the present time, he also did not apologize and was extremely passive about the situation.

Obviously, the snake that was sold to me was sick prior to my purchase. Please BEWARE and STEER CLEAR of Adam Kuhn and the reptiles he is selling. I was very excited about bringing my new snake home, and needless to say I'm extremely distraught over what happened. I do not want this to happen to anyone else. Although graphic, I do think it is important to illustrate the severity of the situation by including a photo. As soon as I figure out how to upload pics, I will post again with them included on the page.

wow. but anything can happen.if was sick it should have showed some signs? I watched a girl at the last Maryland show drop her BP on the floor it smaked real hard,not saying that you did anything to damage the snake.He should replace it for you though.

I gotta say - you are dealing with animals here and that makes it unpredictable.

Correct me if I'm wrong but he is saying he will replace the snake and pay for your admission to the show - you just have to wait a couple weeks?

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Originally Posted by SecurityStacey

I gotta say - you are dealing with animals here and that makes it unpredictable.

Correct me if I'm wrong but he is saying he will replace the snake and pay for your admission to the show - you just have to wait a couple weeks?

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He offered to pay shipping...right? So, why should he have to wait a couple of weeks after he already has made the trip, brought the snake and paid his own way in?

Why have to go though it twice (even if someone else is paying the second time) why have to wait when you already had brought one and had plans for it and were ready for it?

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Originally Posted by SecurityStacey

I gotta say - you are dealing with animals here and that makes it unpredictable.

Correct me if I'm wrong but he is saying he will replace the snake and pay for your admission to the show - you just have to wait a couple weeks?

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I was having trouble deciphering that one too...

You said the snake looked fine when you picked it out at the show?
The seller is going to replace the snake anyway, and pay for you to enter the show?
And the issue is...? I'm sorry the snake died, but since it died after a longish journey in your hands, I'd wonder WHY it died. I can't think of anything that would show a perfectly healthy LOOKING snake, that would kill it within 30 minutes of it arriving home.
What was the quarentine? You said "and before I put her in her actual tank I quarantined her to make sure she did not have mites or anything else." Did you mean you TREATED her for mites? Quarentining a snake isn't usually something you do before putting them in their enclosure, it's usually housing them seperately from any other reptiles for a long period of time.. 4 weeks? Longer?

I don't know.....

After I pay my money for a snake, I want it. I don't want to wait any more time (or I would have put it on the layaway).

I don't subscribe to the theory that I have to make a trip, buy a snake, have it die less than 24 hours later (and it's somehow my fault) and I should wait 6 weeks till I can get another cause he'll pay my way in the show.


btw: if all he had was one snake quarantine is a non-issue.

I agree with the general forum. You did not quarantine....a quarantine is basically solo supervised care away from the general collection.

Back on the seller, I think you are flaming the seller without good cause as long as I understand the situation correctly. From what you said, it sounds like the seller is willing to pay your admission to the next show, and give you a similar snake for free. That seems like really good post-purchase service to me. Yeah, it sucks that your snake died, and that you will have to go out of your way again to the show (and gas), but overall, the seller seems to be handling it really well.

If you can afford it, get an autopsy done at your local herp vet.

My guess for her death is actually something you did during the "quarantine" process. Again, this is just a hunch, I am not trying to call you out on anything, just the way you said it makes me imagine you spraying the snake with PAM.

The issue with the quarantine as stated above isnt that it was or was not necessary, it is that the way the OP stated how the quarantine was done is all but a 10 minute ordeal, which is not a QT. If it wasnt a proper QT, then what was it...that is what I am asking.

Shipping for any snake is normally 50+ $.

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

I was having trouble deciphering that one too...

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Does anyone know this breeder? How do we know he would even BE at the next show? Does he have a good name?

Going to Fauna... to find out....

I am not going to tell the OP what he did wrong in the quarantine..I would prefer for him to explain what his quarantine was.

This whole post smells like something else happened to the snake and you are upset and trying to blame the seller.In my reading your post i take you are VERY new to reptiles correct? If the guy is willing to work with you then i see no reasons for you flaming him ;).My advice to you is learn the proper procedures to housing a new snake BEFORE you get the other one ok :gj:

Here is somthing from 2007 ,http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ight=adam+kuhn

I don't see what the problem is... I don't blame him for not wanting to ship a snake out in this frigid weather. Something sounds fishy about this, and I'm not pointing out the seller. :/

Okay, let me clear this up....first of all I am somewhat new to reptiles, I am not claiming to be an expert, but I am deff not new, I have been around reptiles and people who own reptiles all of my life. The word "quarantine" means a strict isolation imposed to prevent the spread of disease. Although I do not own any other sankes or reptiles for that matter, I was not worried about spreading anything to any other snakes obviously, however I am not going to put a brand new snake into my already preped tank with forest floor cypress mulch beeding, hides, water bowl, and all kinds of artificial plants, with mites only for me to a few days later have to throw out all the bedding and go through the whole hassle of treating mites to a brand new enclousure...its better to be safe than sorry, so you put the snake in another enclosure with white paper towels to see the mites if any, two old hides, a waterbowl, and proper heat just to make sure. Believe me my husbandry is great and if you saw pictures of my enclosure you would agree, I did my research, trust that!! As for the breeder that fix to the problem is bs! And I actually cannot believe that some of you on here agree with him. You are telling me that if I buy a snake from a breeder, not your local petsmart or petco, a breeder, and it dies a little over an hour later that I should have to wait a month, make another hour drive, look through the snakes again, and consider taking ANOTHER snake from him, not to mention take another hour drive back home?? Well at least I got the $7.00 admission fee paid for, right?? NO...whoever agrees with that is crazy, I'm sorry!! If I was a breeder, I would never do that to my client, you better believe that I am sending you another snake next day, free of charge, and free of shipping, garunteed to be alive, and free of mites and ticks. Like I said, I will post pictures of my tank setup, and the snake, and you all can judge for yourself.

how hot was your car on the drive home? I went ahead and brought a thermometer with me inside the car when I had to transport my snakes and it really surprised me how quickly it got up to close to 100 degrees and I had to turn the heat way down lower than I thought I would. You could have had the car in the 100's without knowing and it got too hot. Or it could have been too cold, who knows. Still seems like too short of a drive to harm the snake though really.... But if he's going to replace it, I don't get the problem here, besides the fact that I'm sorry for your loss :(

I don't question your husbandry, how old was the snake? a hatchling? How many sheds had she gone through? How many feedings? I would have gotten a more established one.......Just my :twocents:

I am sorry for your loss :(, I know how excited you must have been

Fact is, this breeder is doing a very good job with post-purchase customer service. It is winter, and if you did as much research as you said you did, you would know that winter almost always means no shipping. It is just too cold for ectotherms.

Have you provided proof to the breeder that the snake is indeed dead?

We all feel for you and know this isnt an ideal situation, but the fact that several people, myself included have asked what "Quarantine" means to you...and you give us the run of the mill correct definition, and not whatever you did for "quarantine" when you brought your snake home. What exactly did you do to/around your snake in what you called your "quarantine"?

It does sound like you know what you are doing with husbandry, I am just not convinced that the breeder is at fault here.

I still smell fish.

So you did not treat the snake with anything in your "QT" procedure?

I think in this situation, if you did not want another snake from this breeder, he should refund your money, and you return to him his dead snake if he requires it. :/

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

So you did not treat the snake with anything in your "QT" procedure?

I think in this situation, if you did not want another snake from this breeder, he should refund your money, and you return to him his dead snake if he requires it. :/

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That is another option I didnt think about.

I think for only having the one snake (the one she just purchased) that she did fine with quarantine. What other snakes was she suppose to be quarantine from? Attacking her for this is ridiculous! Even if she has her new snake in a “decked out” enclosure doesn’t mean she isn’t quarantine it. And, she still doesn’t have any snakes to quarantine it from. Who cares what cage she keeps it in?

As for the seller. I’d have to agree with the majority of the forum.

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Originally Posted by numba1stuna8162

If I was a breeder, I would never do that to my client, you better believe that I am sending you another snake next day, free of charge, and free of shipping, guaranteed to be alive, and free of mites and ticks.

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Read below for my response.

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Originally Posted by ThyTempest

It is winter, and if you did as much research as you said you did, you would know that winter almost always means no shipping.

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Originally Posted by numba1stuna8162

and when I offered to pay for shipping he deterred me and said that it would cost me at least $50.00.

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Shipping a snake does cost $50 or more.

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Originally Posted by numba1stuna8162

As for the breeder that fix to the problem is bs! And I actually cannot believe that some of you on here agree with him. You are telling me that if I buy a snake from a breeder, not your local petsmart or petco, a breeder, and it dies a little over an hour later that I should have to wait a month, make another hour drive, look through the snakes again, and consider taking ANOTHER snake from him, not to mention take another hour drive back home?? Well at least I got the $7.00 admission fee paid for, right?? NO...whoever agrees with that is crazy, I'm sorry!! If I was a breeder, I would never do that to my client, you better believe that I am sending you another snake next day, free of charge, and free of shipping, garunteed to be alive, and free of mites and ticks. Like I said, I will post pictures of my tank setup, and the snake, and you all can judge for yourself.

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How is it BS? He is offering to pay for your admission to the next show (more than I would do, I don't even pay mine). And he is offering you a new snake. That's basic guarantee/returns policy. Oh you have to wait an entire month. That's not so long. Would you rather have him ship the snake in 30 degree weather (based on the weather report at Harve de Grace)? I shipped a snake out a couple months ago and on the receiving end it was 50F-60F and the buyer said the snake arrived cold, even with a 40 hour heat pack.

You'd rather spend $50 to have the snake shipped than make a drive? I don't know about the gas prices over by you, but it's less than $2 here. It would probably cost less to drive both ways than to spend $50 on shipping where you snake will be tossed around in a freezing environment in the shipping process. Overnight at that. Not a one hour ride, OVERNIGHT more than 12 hours.

How about this. You send him an email asking him for pictures of available snakes. Pick one you like and tell him you want that one as a replacement. Then ask him for updates on that snake leading up until the show. Such as when it ate, what is ate, when it shed, etc etc. whatever you want to know. It's his responsibility to make it right. He has already by what he has said.

Please post the pics of the snake and your enclosure.

Also how did you treat for mites?


Guys, I am with the OP on this. He should not HAVE to wait for another snake. The seller didn't mention "too cold" for shipping as a reason according to the OP, but cost..which the OP had offered to pay.

There is another option...since they were both close enough to go to Havre de Grace..they could have met somewhere and the OP could have given the seller back his snake (OP you need to refridgerate the snake..NOT FREEZE to keep the body somewhat preserved).

Oddly enough..in the OP's post, he doesn't say that the seller doubts that the snake is dead only that the seller discouraged him from spending 50.00 for shipping. :rolleyes: There was no mention about the weather, this is the excuse we are "giving" the seller... not the seller's excuse.

BTW: The OP had approached me about buying a snake...and I suggested he post his experience. I suggested that he post to keep myself from being scammed because after I heard his story, I offered to meet him somewhere and give him a free snake which he will be receiving today.

It's called CUSTOMER SERVICE for a reason.

This is getting messy quick.

Seems there is a lot of assumptions regarding the OPs actions, rather than questions being asked.

I cannot think of anything that would kill a snake that fast, unless it got either cooked or frozen on the trip home.

Some snakes are just more fragile, and maybe it just was a weak snake, that bit of stress gave it a heart attack... who knows.

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To the OP, if you can post your pics, and clear up if the seller gave you reasons for not shipping, that would help.

Did you treat the snake for mites? I am a bit fuzzy on that one. I read that you placed it on PT to check for mites.

If it is too cold for the seller to ship, and he stated that, then it would help. Did he offer you a refund in lieau of the snake being replaced?

If you are concerned that the snake came sick, then getting a replacement snake may not be the best response. A refund may be better.

I am sure that HdG has a vendors list posted in advance. Take the list, find a vendor, research them, and get your next snake with your refund from someone you feel confident with.

But if the snake was simply a weak snake (some are and snakes do die unexpectedly) then getting another from this person may be OK. But as noted that will involve providing some proof that the snake is actually dead.

Hope this works out well for all parties.

Bruce

Bruce

If you did your research, did you ever think to bring a box, with heat packs for the ride home?
A hatchling that gets that cold/hot (bringing her out in 30 degree weather, waiting for the car to warm up, then the car heating up, then back out in the cold going into your house, then to a perfectly heated enclosure might have been too much for the snake to take.
A pre heated box (activate the heat packs when you get there, so its warm when you put the snake in)would have been a better idea.
just my $.02

Also shipping in cold weather is not a big deal, if done right, I know a boatload of breeders that ship every week of the year.

Another option...what if this breeder just doesnt ship. Sounds like he is more of a sell at the shows type, and may not be certified to ship reptiles. Based on the vague info given, this is still potentially the case.

Until I get more clearer info, I am still siding with the breeder on this one.

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Originally Posted by numba1stuna8162

Okay, let me clear this up....first of all I am somewhat new to reptiles, I am not claiming to be an expert, but I am deff not new, I have been around reptiles and people who own reptiles all of my life. The word "quarantine" means a strict isolation imposed to prevent the spread of disease. Although I do not own any other sankes or reptiles for that matter, I was not worried about spreading anything to any other snakes obviously, however I am not going to put a brand new snake into my already preped tank with forest floor cypress mulch beeding, hides, water bowl, and all kinds of artificial plants, with mites only for me to a few days later have to throw out all the bedding and go through the whole hassle of treating mites to a brand new enclousure...its better to be safe than sorry, so you put the snake in another enclosure with white paper towels to see the mites if any, two old hides, a waterbowl, and proper heat just to make sure. Believe me my husbandry is great and if you saw pictures of my enclosure you would agree, I did my research, trust that!! As for the breeder that fix to the problem is bs! And I actually cannot believe that some of you on here agree with him. You are telling me that if I buy a snake from a breeder, not your local petsmart or petco, a breeder, and it dies a little over an hour later that I should have to wait a month, make another hour drive, look through the snakes again, and consider taking ANOTHER snake from him, not to mention take another hour drive back home?? Well at least I got the $7.00 admission fee paid for, right?? NO...whoever agrees with that is crazy, I'm sorry!! If I was a breeder, I would never do that to my client, you better believe that I am sending you another snake next day, free of charge, and free of shipping, garunteed to be alive, and free of mites and ticks. Like I said, I will post pictures of my tank setup, and the snake, and you all can judge for yourself.

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Umm just because you place a snake into another tank with paper towels to look for mites is not enough to prevent mites from getting into your other tank.Infact mite eggs can be on the snake and hatch out later in your other setup.I am sorry you feel we are wrong for saying he is correct by doing what he is willing to do for you.No breeder or flipper is going to pay the extra shipping cost to replace a $7 snake(or whatever you paid for it).I am sorry to be blunt but i think you are slaming him for no good reason.To see how others feel take your story to www.faunaclassifieds.com, to see what they think.There is allready a thread asking if anyone has dealt with him and i placed a link to 1 positive post on him.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Umm just because you place a snake into another tank with paper towels to look for mites is not enough to prevent mites from getting into your other tank.Infact mite eggs can be on the snake and hatch out later in your other setup.I am sorry you feel we are wrong for saying he is correct by doing what he is willing to do for you.No breeder or flipper is going to pay the extra shipping cost to replace a $7 snake(or whatever you paid for it).I am sorry to be blunt but i think you are slaming him for no good reason.To see how others feel take your story to www.faunaclassifieds.com, to see what they think.There is allready a thread asking if anyone has dealt with him and i placed a link to 1 positive post on him.

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The OP offered to pay shipping himself. :confused:

One positive post 2 years ago is no indication of his business practices now, and he was sellling Corns..these are BPs...how do we even know it's the same person (a lot of newbies have been stealing/copying names of the more established breeders)? I did ask him to post it on Fauna where people had more experience getting to the heart of a matter and could read the posts more carefully...sorry to be so blunt.;)

Slamming...:weirdface If I brought a snake and it died as soon as I got it home, I would certainly have questions. If the snake was too "weak" to make the trip without dying, the breeder should know what kind of stock he has (imo) I would want to know!

I have made a mistake shipping and the snakes arrived very cold..they are still alive to this day and they were cold for longer than it's "assumed" that the snake in question was cold.

On the other hand...it would have to get close to 100 degrees for the snake to die of heat and I don't think that is what happened here. I do wish he had posted the pics of the dead snake at the SAME time as this thread, it may have given a different viewpoint on his concerns.

From the answers some have given,...a lot of us are learning who NOT to buy from.:rofl:

Sometimes reptiles die for no reason what so ever.he will replace the animal then what elese can he do.was it captive born? Or hacthed? There were some real nice captive bred male normals there for $20 from a very reputable dealer,i know it died & you are upset you but just be glad it was'nt a pied or something high dollar!! There is no real gurrentee on reptiles from most people.

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Originally Posted by broadude

The OP offered to pay shipping himself. :confused:

One positive post 2 years ago is no indication of his business practices now, and he was sellling Corns..these are BPs...how do we even know it's the same person (a lot of newbies have been stealing/copying names of the more established breeders)? I did ask him to post it on Fauna where people had more experience getting to the heart of a matter and could read the posts more carefully...sorry to be so blunt.;)

Slamming...:weirdface If I brought a snake and it died as soon as I got it home, I would certainly have questions. If the snake was too "weak" to make the trip without dying, the breeder should know what kind of stock he has (imo) I would want to know!

I have made a mistake shipping and the snakes arrived very cold..they are still alive to this day and they were cold for longer than it's "assumed" that the snake in question was cold.

On the other hand...it would have to get close to 100 degrees for the snake to die of heat and I don't think that is what happened here. I do wish he had posted the pics of the dead snake at the SAME time as this thread, it may have given a different viewpoint on his concerns.

From the answers some have given,...a lot of us are learning who NOT to buy from.:rofl:

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Umm the ONLY reason i posted that link to the positive thread from 2007 was so everyone had a idea who you were asking about.Now let me point out something,WHY are you asking about the seller and NOT the person whom bought this snake?:confused: Now the seller has offered to replace the snake at the NEXT show so i think everything has been taken care of in my opinion.If the creater of this thread does not want to wait until then i think we are not getting the WHOLE story here.I would like to hear from the other person and get his side.

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Originally Posted by broadude

From the answers some have given,...a lot of us are learning who NOT to buy from.:rofl:

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So you decided not to buy from some people that responded differantly from your opinion :confused:.Thats being silly i think ;)

My my ohhhh my, what a LOT of ASSumptions there are in this thread.

Truly the Wild West has died.

I say if anything ther amy be something in the room in whcih the snakes was place that possible toxic. I not claiming that the person living unhealthy but there is also another possible outside point to look at.

it also possible if in a complex (townhouses) that someone treated the building for something and the fumes were in the cage and settle to the bottom. I also suggest befoer using the cage I redo the entire cage ot be safe and to insure you don't have a repeat of this.

Ok i guess after four pages i still have several questions. I know from personnal experience that you can transport snakes in a blizzard if you keep the vehicle heated properly this took my wife and I being very uncomfortable for a 20 hour ride home. Both the snakes are still alive and health. I just don'[t understand that if your inspection was so indepth what went wrong. I know that its not fair to accuse anyone of wrong doing until all the facts are out. Let me ask you this what are your temps at, what is your gradiant in the cage. What did you use to clean the cage prior to putting the snake in it. did you wipe it down with bleach etc. Was the tank cleaned with water after you cleaned it. I do feel the seller is beng fair. I don't know how much you paid for the snake and that is neither here nor there. But is it at all possible that you were overtaken buy the looks of this snake and didn't notice some underlying problem like it was skinny. I just don't know. I don't think this is fishy but i just don't think that all the facts are out yet. Sorry for your loss.

Alright, after reading every single post, I've got this to say:

For someone who came here with the intention of getting responses and discussing YOUR dilemma, you sure aren't answering a lot of our questions; we're trying to help you figure your stuff out.

We're all still waiting on these wonderful pictures of your set up and snake.

You say you know a lot about reptiles but have never owned one. No offense, but that doesn't mean very much until you have experience. I did MONTHS of research before I got my first BP and in comparison to the things I learned since I got her, I knew next to nothing; and I'm STILL learning.

The fact that you throw the word 'quarantine' around like a general term says a lot. You don't need to put a BP on paper towel to find out if it has mites. You could have done that at the show just by taking a good look at it, if you really knew what to look for. Additionally, we're also still waiting for you to answer our questions as to exactly what you did to "treat" it for mites. If you used the wrong chemical in the wrong way and are responsible for the death of this animal but are trying to blame it on the breeder, this is not the place to start bad mouthing a reputable breeder.

Putting your hands around the container you were transporting it in does NOT qualify as a heat source. It's winter; this is a cold blooded animal. For all you know, the 2 minute walk from the expo to your car could have made it sick.

If you're willing to pay $50 to get it shipped, you should be willing to pay to get an autopsy done to justify your slamming this breeder.

Now, I understand you're distraught, and clearly hurt by these unfortunate events; I don't blame you, I would be upset also. However, research is research and doesn't count as experience. Until you KNOW for a fact how the snake died, or what caused it to die, NOBODY here will take your anger seriously.

(Couldnt get quote to work right, but well said Pandora)
If you're willing to pay $50 to get it shipped, you should be willing to pay to get an autopsy done to justify your slamming this breeder.



Very good point, and I couldn't agree more.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

So you decided not to buy from some people that responded differantly from your opinion :confused:.Thats being silly i think ;)

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Nope..it's a matter of the people that seem to have no clue what Customer Service is.

You can have a different opinion if it's backed up by facts. I spoke to the person and saw the pics.

And yet, there are no pics up for the rest of the community to see and decide for themselves.

(Edited: Decided if I cant say something nice I just wont say it.)

I could post them, but why?


He's already been told why the animal died and what he did wrong. So the subject is closed..he has a new snake and is very happy with it. Maybe later, he'll come back.

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Originally Posted by broadude

I could post them, but why?


He's already been told why the animal died and what he did wrong. So the subject is closed..he has a new snake and is very happy with it. Maybe later, he'll come back.

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So, in the end, he has a new snake from this breeder?

Can we at least justify the question of this breeder being safe please? I'm not asking for an explanation of what he did wrong, that's his business to tell if he wants to, which I think would be a good idea because people learn from others mistakes. Just my opinion though.

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Originally Posted by broadude

Nope..it's a matter of the people that seem to have no clue what Customer Service is.

You can have a different opinion if it's backed up by facts. I spoke to the person and saw the pics.

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Hmm he shared the pics with you but is unable to post them here :rolleyes:.This thread is now nothing but wasted space on our site :weirdface.

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Originally Posted by broadude

I could post them, but why?


He's already been told why the animal died and what he did wrong. So the subject is closed..he has a new snake and is very happy with it. Maybe later, he'll come back.

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So what did he do wrong? Or is this a secret also :rofl:

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Hmm he shared the pics with you but is unable to post them here :rolleyes:.This thread is now nothing but wasted space on our site :weirdface.

So what did he do wrong? Or is this a secret also :rofl:

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Couldnt have said it better myself.

I agree with broadude from earlier though...I guess we know who not to trust, and it isnt the breeder in question. Funny, you should take your own advice.

Wait.. the subject is closed.. because he found out what HE did wrong.. and there is no apoligy for his insults to the breeder? It's his fault, but it's all okay becuase he has a new snake, and knows what he did wrong?
That's not okay to me. He came here harping about the breeder selling him a bum snake, and how it was unfair to him, that the breeder offering a replacement wasn't enough..
But now.. he found out what he did wrong to kill the snake, and he has a new snake.. so now all this is over, without any apoligy? Bogus buyer. Bogus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Wait.. the subject is closed.. because he found out what HE did wrong.. and there is no apoligy for his insults to the breeder? It's his fault, but it's all okay becuase he has a new snake, and knows what he did wrong?
That's not okay to me. He came here harping about the breeder selling him a bum snake, and how it was unfair to him, that the breeder offering a replacement wasn't enough..
But now.. he found out what he did wrong to kill the snake, and he has a new snake.. so now all this is over, without any apoligy? Bogus buyer. Bogus.

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x2


He's responsible for the death of one snake, comes on here to bad-mouth a breeder and blame the death on him, shares detailed information about the snake with one person from the entire site, gets a new snake, so everything's okay now??:O:confused::mad:

Well now that I know how you feel about the proper treatment of animals... *knows better than to type what she's thinking* for shame...

That is all

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Wait.. the subject is closed.. because he found out what HE did wrong.. and there is no apoligy for his insults to the breeder? It's his fault, but it's all okay becuase he has a new snake, and knows what he did wrong?
That's not okay to me. He came here harping about the breeder selling him a bum snake, and how it was unfair to him, that the breeder offering a replacement wasn't enough..
But now.. he found out what he did wrong to kill the snake, and he has a new snake.. so now all this is over, without any apoligy? Bogus buyer. Bogus.

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I agree 100% !! I wonder if we will hear anymore from the OP?:rolleyes:

So no apology for creating a "beware" thread about this seller, when now we are told it was actually the OP's fault.

Okay so what did he do to the snake?

Oh, I'm asking far too much... :rolleyes:

I'd really like to hear what went wrong so I can avoid the same situation and we can clear this breeder's name

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smith285

I'd really like to hear what went wrong so I can avoid the same situation and we can clear this breeder's name

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Well the OP is reading everything right now so we will await his/her reply ;)

Numba... a little humility goes ALONG way in this community.

You need to rectify this and provide details of what YOU did wrong.

Bad feedback is not glib. It threatens the hobby, and for anyone that may have read the first post, and not continued to follow the thread, may never buy from the breeder that you were so quick to trash-talk.

This is the person's BUSINESS and their REPUTATION that is at stake.

Take that VERY serious. Small community here.

Provide the details and let people make up their own minds, and be prepared to answer follow up questions as well.

That is one thing that has always sat ill with me. Negative feedback using a breeder's name and location, yet the person doing so has complete anonymity. All we have to go on your credibility is 2 posts (the first being negative feedback) and a screenname.

Bruce

Humm let’s see...where to start? Well let’s see, I am a little upset at all the assumptions and accusations going around, definitely did not expect that from this forum, but that’s beside the point. It’s also funny how if I happen to be away from my computer for any length of time, and don’t offer a reply within two seconds of someone’s post (Pandora, joepythons), all of a sudden I’m responsible for the death of the snake, I’m this horrible person, and you want to get angry. Sorry, I have a job and I have a life, just because I don’t reply to posts every 3 hours is irrelevant to me ( and the point remains that I did reply).

Next, as far as the quarantining process, why is that such a big deal? You all act like I put her in a small fish bowl with paper towels and no heat. And since apparently I need to reveal every minute detail about the quarantine, I will do that right now. I got the snake home, took her out of her tiny tube that she was sold to me in, you know the clear plastic tubs that you often see snakes being sold in at reptile expos? I put her into a separate, not the actual tank I had setup as her actual home, a separate 10 gallon tank that I prepared the night before, that day would be Friday, January 9th.

On Friday night, I cleaned the empty 10 gallon aquarium(remember she is about or less than a foot long) with a 5% bleach solution and let it sit for 5 minutes, then I came back rinsed the tank out with hot water (made sure the UTH did not get wet b/c I am sure someone is gonna jump to conclusions and say u messed up the UTH by getting it wet, the snake froze to death, its your fault, stop flaming the breeder) dried it and let it sit for 1 hour. After the tank sat for an hour I put about three layers of white paper towels down in the bottom of the tank, then I put in two identical hides which also were cleaned prior to being put in the aquarium, one on the cool side and one on the hot side. Then I put a medium sized water bowl in the middle of the tank between hides, and a piece of driftwood on the hot side. Finally, I put a screen top on the aquarium and put two heat lamps on top, one on the cool side, one on the hot side. I let the hot side lamp heat up and with two digital thermometers with probes, watched the temps, hot side was at a constant 90, cool side read 82, and digital hygrometer was at constant 52%. I also have fish tank thermometers stuck to the back of the aquarium about 2 inches above the ground on both sides which measured same temps as probed thermos.

Let me restate myself, the purpose of putting her in this separate tank was to make sure she did not have mites, yes I could have done that at the show, but you have to understand that the Havre de Grace show is in a tiny community center and is packed with people looking over your shoulders at other snakes, bumping you, noisy, and the lighting is not that good, so seeing tiny mites on your hand in this environment is not as easy as say….in a 10 gallon tank with white paper towels and proper lighting. I still did a good examination of the snake at the show which is why I said everything about her seemed to be healthy, unless I could have missed something which I never denied however it is still the breeders job to not sell unhealthy snakes, unless of course he didn’t realize that the snake was sick, then we are both just out of luck.

Anyway this is getting long so I’m wrapping it up, I get the snake home…btw in addition to me cupping the snake’s container in my hands for warmth on the ride home, I obviously had the heat on in the car, so whoever wrote that cupping my hands isn’t sufficient heating, umm I don’t know what to say to you, I figured that me having the heat on in the car was a given…but I guess not. Moving on, I get home put the snake in the 10 gallon tank, AGAIN I am checking for mites NOT treating for them, with that said there were no chemicals put in the cage, no chemicals used on the snake, no nothing!! So like I said I put her in the tank, watch her explore for a couple of minutes maybe 10, check temps and humidity, they are perfect, I walk away, grab some food and watch tv for 30 minutes, come back look under the warm side hide (which btw isn’t right above the UTH) and she is laying there on her side lifeless and limp.. I hope that explains everything and I am done with my trial. I came here looking for a since of community in trying to figure out what happened to my snake for it to go so suddenly and deduce some possible answers, not for ppl to take sides on this and that, point fingers, get angry, assume and jump to conclusions. I hope to God that the government doesn’t make it a Federal law not to own snakes because we wouldn’t be able to come together as a community to fight that law based off of what I’ve seen in the past few hours since I posted this. All that I care about and to me the most important thing is that there is a dead ball python and I want to figure out why this happened. As far as broadude, I reached out to her and she reached back and that is why she has pictures and knows the ins and outs of the whole ordeal…she also has pictures because I could send them to her email, and I don’t have photobucket so I cannot put them up here, yet. Also broadude, thank you so much for all your help and everything, I really appreciate it!!