Question about ARS racks...

Hi everyone,

Do you need to have high temperatures in the room where you're keeping the rack, or not?

Racks from RBI, AP, and Boaphile all have plastic with high insulating properties...ARS only has a frame.

Do the ARS tubs insulate better? I'd love to keep an ARS rack in a cool room.

open racks don't hold heat as well as a RBI.If your room is heated & not drafty freedom or ARS is the choice for most.

So a room that can dip below 70F is no good with ARS?

Agreed. ARS, Freedom Breeder, or even Vision don't hold humidity or heat as well as RBI or AP racks.

For an uncontrolled room (both humidity and heat) I'd say go for the RBI/AP.

:)

Even a room that dips below 70 isnt good for the enclosed racks like RBI and AP. ARS and FB are definately out of the question, I use RBI and my room is set at 80-82 deg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Hi everyone,

Do you need to have high temperatures in the room where you're keeping the rack, or not?

Racks from RBI, AP, and Boaphile all have plastic with high insulating properties...ARS only has a frame.

Do the ARS tubs insulate better? I'd love to keep an ARS rack in a cool room.

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Racks don't perform well in unheated rooms - unless you're into colubrids.

My Freedom Breeders, Boaphiles and RBIs all hold relatively the same temps and humidity. The cool end of the drawer will be just tad over ambient for the room.

I don't know about ARS, but FB has changed their lid design so that you can opt between 100% perforated to little to no perforation. Again, no difference in my FB compared to my "closed" 41qt PVC racks in terms of temp and humidity.

If you need your cool end temps up around 80 degrees, you will need to keep the room over 76 degrees even with an RBI or an AP rack.

My AP cage will stay up to 74F in the front of the cage when it's 67 in my room... and that's sliding glass doors.
Why does a tub cool down so much more?

The AP has a RHP in it btw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

The AP has a RHP in it btw.

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You answered your own question.

A tub in a rack most likely has flexwatt underneath it. Flexwatt effectively heats a spot - not a whole enclosure.

Hahah thanks for the reply.
RHPs are by far the ultimate way to heat an enclosure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Hahah thanks for the reply.
RHPs are by far the ultimate way to heat an enclosure.

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:gj:

How about heat supplied from the back or sides by flexwatt?
AP does this and I just saw a thread on a rack that had this kind of heat and the front of his tubs were at 80F... :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

How about heat supplied from the back or sides by flexwatt?
AP does this and I just saw a thread on a rack that had this kind of heat and the front of his tubs were at 80F... :confused:

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I believe on AP's website they recommend back heat only in rooms heated over 75 degrees.

I have a Boaphile sweater box rack that is heated with back heat. The front stays at roughly the ambient room temperature.

My Boaphile ball room racks are heated on the bottom and on alternating sides. Again, the front part of the tub is roughly ambient room temp.

Regarding this thread you read - what did the poster claim his ambient room temp was?

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I believe on AP's website they recommend back heat only in rooms heated over 75 degrees.

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Note though that that is for BACK heat. For their iris racks they now have "dual side radiant" which actually heats the air. This to me seems like a better way of heating the entire tub.
Also, AP racks are made of 1/2" PVC, so the tub will be insulated by that and the actual plastic the tub is made of.
Apart from me having an RHP in my cage, there doesn't seem to be a reason for the temperatures in the front of the tub to be just a tad over room temps.
However, the adult racks I'm look at are ~33" deep; this would cause a great temperature gradient.
I sent an e-mail to AP regarding this heating issue...

Quote:

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Regarding this thread you read - what did the poster claim his ambient room temp was?

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I don't think this was stated...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

If you need your cool end temps up around 80 degrees, you will need to keep the room over 76 degrees even with an RBI or an AP rack.

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I disagree. With a little bit of work and money it's pretty easy to keep the temps up where you need them. I built a rack similar to the Visions at one point. Picked up some 1" insulating foam board from home depot and enclosed it on three sides. Belly heat supplied by Flexwatt set to 95 degrees with the thermostat. In a 70 degree room the ambient temperature in the tub stayed right between 80-82 degrees.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

How about heat supplied from the back or sides by flexwatt?
AP does this and I just saw a thread on a rack that had this kind of heat and the front of his tubs were at 80F... :confused:

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Link?

I would want to buy a rack but AP has 1/2" PVC; great insulating properties.

And yay I found the link :banana:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...highlight=rack

It's all on the first page

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Originally Posted by Peter Williams

I heat the room to around 75 and the flexwatt ups it to about 80 on the cool side.

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There's your answer. ;)

As long as you've got access to some insulating materials you should be fine with just about any rack you choose. :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

I disagree. With a little bit of work and money it's pretty easy to keep the temps up where you need them. I built a rack similar to the Visions at one point. Picked up some 1" insulating foam board from home depot and enclosed it on three sides. Belly heat supplied by Flexwatt set to 95 degrees with the thermostat. In a 70 degree room the ambient temperature in the tub stayed right between 80-82 degrees.



Link?

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Now if were talking about modifying them by adding insulation - that's a different story.

On most rack systems, even the "enclosed" ones, there is too much space between to the tubs and the sides and the back. The tubs and the 1/4" and 1/2" plastics do a poor job of preventing heat loss.

At one point I draped the back and sides of my FB in reflectix. Coupled with the 11" heat panels, it kept the ambient nice and toasty.

However for the stock out of the box racks - they barely heat the cool end over ambient.

I have found that by covering the glass doors on my AP cage with a blanket at night keeps the inside temperature a few degrees higher...
Would the same work for a rack?

I'll be moving back to the Netherlands in two years and temps can get pretty low down there.

Of course with other snakes apart from BPs the temps can get pretty low.

What rack would keep the inside temperature the highest compared to other rack systems? Anybody got experience with different ones?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Note though that that is for BACK heat. For their iris racks they now have "dual side radiant" which actually heats the air. This to me seems like a better way of heating the entire tub.
Also, AP racks are made of 1/2" PVC, so the tub will be insulated by that and the actual plastic the tub is made of.
Apart from me having an RHP in my cage, there doesn't seem to be a reason for the temperatures in the front of the tub to be just a tad over room temps.
However, the adult racks I'm look at are ~33" deep; this would cause a great temperature gradient.
I sent an e-mail to AP regarding this heating issue...




I don't think this was stated...

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Again - the boaphiles have belly heat and alternating side heat and they don't heat the entire tub.

You have radiant heat panels in your cages - right? You install the panel in the roof and place the probe for your stat on the floor. The panel is radiating heat over a space of 12" to 18". In the process of heating the probe, the panel is also raising the ambient heat in the cage.

If you are using flexwatt - you are most likely placing the probe either on top of the flexwatt or in the tub within less that 1/2" from the heat tape. You are heating a spot on the bottom of the tub. Even if you have back heat or side heat, you are still heating within a minimal distance of the source.

A RHP or a heat lamp/ heatemitter is radiating heat from above to a fixed point over a greater distance. The result is a more beneficial boost to the ambient temp in the enclosure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I have found that by covering the glass doors on my AP cage with a blanket at night keeps the inside temperature a few degrees higher...
Would the same work for a rack?

I'll be moving back to the Netherlands in two years and temps can get pretty low down there.

Of course with other snakes apart from BPs the temps can get pretty low.

What rack would keep the inside temperature the highest compared to other rack systems? Anybody got experience with different ones?

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As Chris mentioned - you can add insulation to the rack to help keep any heat dispersed into the tub in.

I have/have had several brands of racks in my snake room. The difference between them in terms if limiting heat loss is minimal.

A closed in rack like a Boaphile/RBI/Jason's Jungle, etc. is nominally easier to insulate to improve heat loss.

ARS and Freedom Breeders with the standard grated tops lose alot of heat. When Lindy offered the modular top system it improved the out of the box performance. My FB with the almost solid top keeps heat in about as well as any other rack I have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

You have radiant heat panels in your cages - right?

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Yeah I do.

Alright then, I don't think a rack is the way to go for me just yet. :(

I was thinking about ordering a nice big rack to take back to the Netherlands, go live on my own where I can keep a room at a constant, higher temperature, set up the rack, and start a bigger collection of snakes.

The big problem with this is apparantly the ambient air temperature though... :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Yeah I do.

Alright then, I don't think a rack is the way to go for me just yet. :(

I was thinking about ordering a nice big rack to take back to the Netherlands, go live on my own where I can keep a room at a constant, higher temperature, set up the rack, and start a bigger collection of snakes.

The big problem with this is apparantly the ambient air temperature though... :(

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What's the ambient in the room?

My snake room varies from 76 degrees to 79 degrees.

While I only have one ball python in my collection, I have several womas a blackhead and some antaresias who like it warm.

I have no problems maintaining 78 to 81 degrees on the cool end and an ambient on the back half of the tub of 84 to 85 degrees with a nice hot spot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

What's the ambient in the room?

My snake room varies from 76 degrees to 79 degrees.

While I only have one ball python in my collection, I have several womas a blackhead and some antaresias who like it warm.

I have no problems maintaining 78 to 81 degrees on the cool end and an ambient on the back half of the tub of 84 to 85 degrees with a nice hot spot.

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My room right now is 75-77 during the summer, and 67-75 during winter. I know, it's cold, but my dad won't let me put the heater up too much.

But no worries about my snakes, I keep them nice and toasty with my AP cages.

I'm gonna receive my new 36x24x15 divided AP cage for a BP and a gray-banded kingsnake, each with an RHP. I can't wait!

I sent an e-mail to AP and they say that usually only the very front of the tub is at or just above room temperature.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I sent an e-mail to AP and they say that usually only the very front of the tub is at or just above room temperature.

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I'll tell you what.

This week, I'll take some pics of the herp room and send them to you via PM showing:

(1) The thermometers showing the ambient temp of the room.
(2) Heat gun readings of two types of racks (back and belly heat) showing:
(a) Warm end temps.
(b) Cool end temps.
(c) Ambient temps.

AP is technically right - the front of the tub will be roughly room temperature - but your gradient begins there. If your room temp is 70 degrees, your gradient will start at 70 degrees and end at the back of the tub.

That gradient is stretched out over the length of the tub. The hotspot where the probe is will heat up relatively quick - regardless of what ambient is.

So an ambient of 78 nets me the following:

Cool end temp of 79 to 80 degrees, hot spot of 90-92 and a warm end temp of 84 to 85. Overall ambient varies from 79 to 85 degrees over 34" of tub length.

An ambient of 70 degrees nets me the following:

Cool end temp of 71 to 72 degrees, hot spot of 90 - 92 and a warm end temp of 77 to 78 degrees. So the overall ambient varies from 71 to 78 degrees - too cool for balls :(.

With some insulating you could jack those temps up a bit. On an insulated FB rack in a 73 degree room I was able to maintain an overall ambient of 83 degrees. That was with 11" heat panels on 33.5" long tubs.

Thanks for helping me out!