Help needed - not eaten in 13 months

My BP has now not eaten in 13 months. He is about three years old. He used to eat reasonably regularly, but would stop every so often for up to a few months. He started on mice and was up to small/medium rats (always frozen-thawed) before he stopped.

Temps and humidity are fine. He had a perfect shed a couple of weeks ago, which was his first since February. He is currently quite active (for a BP) but does go through periods of minimal activity. He weighs 486g, so he's not a large BP, but he has lost almost no weight since he stopped eating. He is still healthy looking.

I have not yet tried any particular feeding techniques, apart from the usual: present warmed-up rat with tongs and jiggle it around a bit. Sometimes he will come check it out, other times he completely ignores it, but since November 2007, he has not struck at it.

Surely at this stage, I should be getting worried...?

As always - any advice greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Get him to the vet. And bring a fecal sample.

I would say the time has come for a vet visit. Make sure it is a Herp specialist. Nature is telling it not to eat for some reason and that reason could be an illness. Otherwise we need pictures of the set up, temps, and information on how you feed to see if anything is off or maybe give you a hint on what is wrong! Another thing to try is possibly feeding a live to see if he gets interested.

try live, but get him to the vet

Fecal sample is not an option as he only defecates when he eats. I will post some photos of the setup shortly so you can have a look.

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Temps and humidity are fine.

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That does not tell us much

Please try to answer those questions precisely

What type and size of enclosure do you have?

How many and what kind hides do you have (how they tight with all sides touching your BP's body)?

What are your temps? How do you measure them (type of termomether)?

What is your humidity? How do you measure it (type of hygrometer)?

How often and how long do you handle your snake?

My first question is, you say he is three years old. Have you had him the entire time? And, do you know his background (i.e. CBB, CH WC)? As one other has stated, I would try to get him to eat a live adult mouse (I say mouse, so that if he doesn't eat, you can keep it indefinitely and it won't get to big for him). I had a WC female come in that didn't eat for 55 weeks, and she finally decided to eat a mouse. She had no parasite load, and was housed in a rack with animals that ate above and below her tub (thus ruling out husbandry issues). She did loose about 40% of her body weight during that time, but regained all of her weight plus a few hundred grams after about 4 months, and bred and laid a perfectly healthy clutch of eggs the same year.

I would say that if he hasn't lost any weight, and still looks healthy, get him looked at by a vet, but try to change up his feeding a bit (try live, try F/T rats or even ASFs if you can get them). Another thing to try is to move him into a different enclosure for a few weeks, or move his enclosure to a different room, as change can make them start eating too. Lastly, another tried and true trick that sounds strange but works, is to take him for a ride in the car for about 30 minutes. With all of that said, I have a few adult males that only eat between 6 and 12 times a year (and breed without getting sick).

I hope some of that helps,

I have now uploaded some pictures of my setup to my gallery, so check it out if you don't mind, and let me know any thoughts you have.

Temps vary between 78 and 84 on the cool side and 90 and 92 on the basking spot (a heat pad under the cave at the left (warm) side that's on a thermostat. Humidity varies little from 50%, and I spray a bit to get it up over 60 if I know he's heading into shed. You can see there's a digital thermometer/hygrometer at the cool end with a probe going to the basking spot.

The caves are just big enough for him to fit in, and the middle hide, in the base of the tree is more roomy.

I don't handle him often at all now that he is not eating. Maybe a few times a month for no more than a few minutes at a time.

Hopefully that gives you some more detail. As I say, have a look at the pics in my gallery.

Are there any tricks I can try before I try the vet or feeding live? I think I've read something about cutting the rat's skull to expose the brain. Does that do anything? Or anything else I can try?

Anyway, thanks again everyone.

John, I had a male that didn't eat for nine months. After nine months, I had enough and changed him to a tub set-up and he took a meal within a week.

He looks to be in good condition in your photos, however.

Am I seeing things right?! Is that flexx watt going up the side of the enclosure? why not under the warm side of enclosure? You should get rid of that tape in your enclosure also, I also would try live mice, and I would schedule a vet appt.

Hi Robin. I tried a tub setup once (ages ago - long before he stopped eating) but couldn't keep up ambient temps, as I had no way of fitting a bulb. Heat mats were only warming surface temps and doing nothing for ambient.

Definitely give a live mouse a try. I bet that gets him back on feed.

It's not actually flexx watt - it's just an extra heat mat that I had just to boost temps a little at the warm end. There is another similar one underneath the warm side. Both mats are on one thermostat - the probe for which is inside the warm cave, directly over the underneath heat mat - if that makes sense.

Are you able to get hold of f/t gerbils as feeders or do you know someone who has a gerbil and will give you some bedding that you can roll an f/t mouse or rat in? Might be an idea before you try feeding live or take hom to the vet... My Royal female (8 yr old, CB) has gone 6 mnths without eating which was a bit worrying (she will often go 2 without eating...) but then one day she started to exhibit feeding behaviour, I offered her a f/t gerbil the next day and she ate it straight away. Just an idea.

I've just spoken to the reptile specialist I get my rats from and he has some frozen gerbils that I'm going to try. He also suggested I try a product called Avipro Plus. It's a probiotic that should stimulate appetite. Here's some info on it: https://www.thereptileroom.co.uk/cat...047f84dc866fd0

Has anybody heard of or used anything similar? Anyway, I'm heading in to pick up the Avipro and a gerbil or two.

I feed all of my ball pythons live rats. All eat without issue.

Hope this helps.

I wouldn't really want to give my snake supplements. It's either not feeding because I'm doing something wrong as a keeper or it does not feel like eating. If I feel uncomfortable about a fasting snake I will usually switch them to a smaller enclosure for a temporary period. Sometimes the sudden change will help trigger a feeding response.

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Originally Posted by jphealy

I've just spoken to the reptile specialist I get my rats from and he has some frozen gerbils that I'm going to try. He also suggested I try a product called Avipro Plus. It's a probiotic that should stimulate appetite. Here's some info on it: https://www.thereptileroom.co.uk/cat...047f84dc866fd0

Has anybody heard of or used anything similar? Anyway, I'm heading in to pick up the Avipro and a gerbil or two.

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Why would you want to get him on gerbils when he would more than likely take a live mouse with no problem? The supplement looks like a scam to me. I wouldn't waste my time or money on anything like that.

I don't think the Avipro is a scam. The reptile guy who I deal with is pretty well respected as one of the best herp guys in Ireland. So I'm going to give it a go. I have a gerbil in the freezer that I'll try after a week or so. If there's still no success with that I'll try live.

The Avipro sounds similar to NutriBac, which I have seen recommended by Kathy Love.

Here is a link to some of her personal experiences using NutriBac, as well as some info on how & why it works:
http://www.corn-utopia.com/Corn%20Ut...nformation.htm

Confused. All of the repected members here made the same suggestion, and that is to feed live. You have been advised not to feed the suppliment crap.

And now after all this advice you are planning to keep feeding f / t and feed the suppliment crap?

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Good Luck.

Hi Mike~
Laws regarding the live feeding of rodents to reptiles differ in different countries.
I understand in England, for example, it is illegal to feed live rodents unless a vet documents that the reptile's life is in serious jeopardy.

Out of my 50+ BPs maybe 2 will eat a prekilled rodent the rest only eat live. I reccomend live rodents and small enclosures, always works for me.

Best of luck

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Originally Posted by starmom

Hi Mike~
Laws regarding the live feeding of rodents to reptiles differ in different countries.
I understand in England, for example, it is illegal to feed live rodents unless a vet documents that the reptile's life is in serious jeopardy.

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I didn't believe in the UK it was necessary for a vet to deem necessary to feed live... so that may be something... who knows

I had always read it was feeding live only when the health of the animal was at stake, but that doesn't mean its the same across the board for europe.

Whether or not he wanted to attempt feeding live I don't think he's exhausted all his options for f/t. It would probably be the easiest and most effective to feed live but f/t can be done. 7 of my 8 snakes feed on f/t without a problem, granted I had my difficulties with a few but I always worked through them.

More hides, less hides, different humidity, different cool/warm side temps, smaller enclosure; they are all things you can try to coax a snake to eat f/t. If he hasn't lost much weight I honestly wouldn't be concerned. An appetite stimulant just seems like the easiest way out of a problem that may be solved through other methods that are "natural" to the snake.

Considering that the snake hasn't lost much weight I think you have time to tweak your set up to solve your problem with something that doesn't require you to feed live or give your snake a supplement.

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Originally Posted by starmom

Hi Mike~
I understand in England, for example, it is illegal to feed live rodents unless a vet documents that the reptile's life is in serious jeopardy.

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That's not quite the case - Currently it is not illegal in the UK to feed a live vertebrate to another unless you cause it unnecessary suffering, so that would have to be the result of a court case and the judge would have to make a decision. Also, if you were to feed live prey to an animal in a public place for others to watch that would be illegal. It is generally discouraged in the UK but people do it. OP is in the Republic of Ireland so their laws on feeding live may well be different

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

And now after all this advice you are planning to keep feeding f / t

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On account of the fact that few in the UK feed live then it's likely that jphealy's snake will never have encountered live prey (I'm assuming it's a CB snake?) and may therefore be freaked out by it...

Hope the gerbil works and he feeds! With mine I heat them up till I can distinctly smell them - usually on the radiator in the same room as the snake. Often I dangle it in her viv for a few moments before I plan to feed it to her and that way she gets interested and alert.. Let us know what happens :)

Well - he's eaten!

I gave him a few doses of the Avipro Plus in his water over the last ten days or so, as instructed by the guy in the reptile store. I then offered the gerbil last night. I could tell straight away that he was interested. He reacted to it more than he's reacted to anything in the last year. He didn't strike right away though. He was sniffing it out for a good 15 minutes before he started to eat. I guess we'll never know for sure whether it was the Avipro or the gerbil or a combination of both that did it. I'm delighted anyway - big weight off.

Great!!! happy for you he's eating :)

Glad to hear he's eaten! Hope he does it again soon :) If you're worried about him fixating on gerbils keep a gerbil in the freezer bag with some mice or rats or get some gerbil bedding from a pet shop and rub the other type of rodent in that.....