Tell me what you think - I want your opinions

Hello everyone, I am just want to here everyone's opinions and thoughts on these 2 animals. They are 1.1 and they are related. Not going to say anymore just want to here people's thought and opinions.

MALE
http://jamillsreptiles.com/images/NM-male-1.jpg
http://jamillsreptiles.com/images/NM-male-2.jpg
http://jamillsreptiles.com/images/NM-male-3.jpg

FEMALE
http://jamillsreptiles.com/images/NM-female-1.jpg
http://jamillsreptiles.com/images/NM-female-2.jpg
http://jamillsreptiles.com/images/NM-female-3.jpg

They look great! However please loose the blue font.....ROFL Had to strain to read that!

Very nice blushing on both.

they look very nice. Are they yellow bellys

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Originally Posted by MDB

they look very nice. Are they yellow bellys

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Not Yellow Bellies

I would have thought yellow belly at first too. Nice color, nice blush and I love the pattern with all the fishhooks and the swirly stuff. They're not specters are they?

I think they are the ugliest ball pythons I have ever seen!! Save yourself any further embarrasment and put them in a box and send them to me!!!!!!!!!!!:taz:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I would have thought yellow belly at first too. Nice color, nice blush and I love the pattern with all the fishhooks and the swirly stuff. They're not specters are they?

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they do look exactly like a yellow belly, with the blushings.

Dark Caramel Albino.

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Originally Posted by FatBoy

I think they are the ugliest ball pythons I have ever seen!! Save yourself any further embarrasment and put them in a box and send them to me!!!!!!!!!!!:taz:

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STOP fatboy called me and said to tell you to ship them to me. And that he will pick them up at my place. Thanks:rofl:

OK here are pics of the Father.
http://jamillsreptiles.com/images/NM-FATHER-1.jpg
http://jamillsreptiles.com/images/NM-FATHER-2.jpg

Dinker? :confused: I see you have 1.2

Very attractive!

pastave?

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Dinker? :confused: I see you have 1.2

Very attractive!

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I was waiting for someone to catch that!
I have 1.2
The Father pictured belongs to my buddy and was bred to 3 different Normal Females. All three produced. All three had hatchlings that look like these and some that look pretty normal. So yes Dinker until something more substantial is proven.
But I would still like people's opinions on them. All opinions welcome.

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Originally Posted by JAMills

I was waiting for someone to catch that!
I have 1.2
The Father pictured belongs to my buddy and was bred to 3 different Normal Females. All three produced. All three had hatchlings that look like these and some that look pretty normal. So yes Dinker until something more substantial is proven.
But I would still like people's opinions on them. All opinions welcome.

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ooooo Saweet! What do I win?!?!

I will take one of those hatchlings! :P

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I would have thought yellow belly at first too. Nice color, nice blush and I love the pattern with all the fishhooks and the swirly stuff. They're not specters are they?

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I would love it if they turned out to be Spector / Whirlwind I have a yellowbelly waiting for the day I get some of that blood in my collection!

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Originally Posted by JAMills

I would love it if they turned out to be Spector / Whirlwind I have a yellowbelly waiting for the day I get some of that blood in my collection!

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Joshua, I don't suspect Spector -- head markings and blushing are both not consistent. However, I would breed them if they were mine!!!!

I would put the male offspring on one DARK normal and one LIGHT normal. If you get 50% that have THAT LOOK, then you might consider putting male on a Pastel next season while you are holding females to grow up. Good luck. ;)
Cool dinker -- better than average!!!:gj:

Try to prove a super before you start mixing it into combos...

Best of luck.

Hey, I have one of those...... You got the picks though so mine isn't as nice as yours. Keep me posted on your breedings with them, since I only have one of the males:(.

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Originally Posted by FatBoy

I think they are the ugliest ball pythons I have ever seen!! Save yourself any further embarrasment and put them in a box and send them to me!!!!!!!!!!!:taz:

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Seconded LOL

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Originally Posted by briz

Hey, I have one of those...... You got the picks though so mine isn't as nice as yours. Keep me posted on your breedings with them, since I only have one of the males:(.

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Well Good Luck with yours too. Keep me posted on what you do with your male.

The interesting thing about these are they get more gold and green with each shed and the blushing more intense.

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

Joshua, I don't suspect Spector -- head markings and blushing are both not consistent. However, I would breed them if they were mine!!!!

I would put the male offspring on one DARK normal and one LIGHT normal. If you get 50% that have THAT LOOK, then you might consider putting male on a Pastel next season while you are holding females to grow up. Good luck. ;)
Cool dinker -- better than average!!!:gj:

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Thanks for the input. I am definately interested in getting Spector blood because the SS is on the top of my I want to produce list. So if you hatch any this next season keep me posted I will be interested

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Originally Posted by jknudson

Try to prove a super before you start mixing it into combos...

Best of luck.

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What is your reasoning behind that.
If I have 1.2 that are all 08's currently 350 grams or so.
The male should be ready next season, so I put him with other morph females since the females wont be ready yet. I keep all the babies and when the girls are big enough breed them to try and prove a super. If the Super proves, then I am ahead of the game because I already have crosses growing up! If the Super doesn't prove oh well I have Morphs from him bred to morph girls and maybe his pattern, color, and blushing will enhance their apperence.

So why should I wait to prove a super before proving a super?

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Originally Posted by JAMills

Thanks for the input. I am definately interested in getting Spector blood because the SS is on the top of my I want to produce list. So if you hatch any this next season keep me posted I will be interested

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I'll let you know if I prove her Joshua!!!:gj:

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Originally Posted by JAMills

What is your reasoning behind that.
If I have 1.2 that are all 08's currently 350 grams or so.
The male should be ready next season, so I put him with other morph females since the females wont be ready yet. I keep all the babies and when the girls are big enough breed them to try and prove a super. If the Super proves, then I am ahead of the game because I already have crosses growing up! If the Super doesn't prove oh well I have Morphs from him bred to morph girls and maybe his pattern, color, and blushing will enhance their apperence.

So why should I wait to prove a super before proving a super?

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I don't want to speak for Jason, but traditional thought is you don't "spend" a female morph on an unproven animal--no matter how promising. Most would put an existing proven morph on her. I know how hard it can be not to roll the dice.

I have 2 males that I believe to be homozygous. They are WILD :rolleye2: looking!!! One produced 12.13 bred to 3 different normals last season and ALL of them look the same and get lighter as they age. The other male only gave me 2 eggs both 85 gram girls -- very unique -- SAME MARKERS.

I am considering putting them on a morph each this season based on how they and offspring look.

Most breeders wiil tell you NOT to breed it to a morph until you make a super --I would not be one of them. If you feel good about it...roll those dice.:gj:

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

Most breeders wiil tell you NOT to breed it to a morph until you make a super --I would not be one of them. If you feel good about it...roll those dice.:gj:

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Yeah, well I do like to gamble...LOL. I live right up the shore from Atlantic City. Who knows... Maybe they will prove maybe they wont. If they don't and I do pair up with say pastel then hey I will still get pastels (If I don't get really bad odds that is).

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Originally Posted by JAMills

What is your reasoning behind that.
If I have 1.2 that are all 08's currently 350 grams or so.
The male should be ready next season, so I put him with other morph females since the females wont be ready yet. I keep all the babies and when the girls are big enough breed them to try and prove a super. If the Super proves, then I am ahead of the game because I already have crosses growing up! If the Super doesn't prove oh well I have Morphs from him bred to morph girls and maybe his pattern, color, and blushing will enhance their apperence.

So why should I wait to prove a super before proving a super?

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Well, it may be true the "look" is inheritable...but it could be like a phantom and create something even more stunning as a super form. If you breed it to other morphs...you may find out the look is inheritable yes...but you already know that. But you won't know the true genetics or genes at play if you're not seeing the "base morph" working alone. Combos can do some weird things to the appearance you may expect to see.

I think many are too fast to work stuff into combos without seeing what these genes do on their own. You're just going to have yourself a situation like Mr. Emberballs...no super proven for YEARS after hyping up a project...and I know he took a lot of heat for it. Luckily for him the super was more worthwhile, as a new line of fires.

But in the end...they're your animals...do what you will...that's just my suggestion. :)

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Originally Posted by jknudson

Well, it may be true the "look" is inheritable...but it could be like a phantom and create something even more stunning as a super form. If you breed it to other morphs...you may find out the look is inheritable yes...but you already know that. But you won't know the true genetics or genes at play if you're not seeing the "base morph" working alone. Combos can do some weird things to the appearance you may expect to see.

I think many are too fast to work stuff into combos without seeing what these genes do on their own. You're just going to have yourself a situation like Mr. Emberballs...no super proven for YEARS after hyping up a project...and I know he took a lot of heat for it. Luckily for him the super was more worthwhile, as a new line of fires.

But in the end...they're your animals...do what you will...that's just my suggestion. :)

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I do see everyones points and they are all valid.

This is what I am saying though. I have 1.2
The females are not crosses so I don't have to worry about
"you won't know the true genetics or genes at play if you're not seeing the "base morph" working alone."
Because I have the male and 2 females to breed him to.
So while the 2 females are growing up
I breed him to nothing crazy but say pastels.
Then while all of those offspring are growing up
I breed him back to the 2 Females that are then big enough to try and prove a super.
Since they are not crosses I don't have to worry about another mutation hiding the "Base Morph"
If the super proves great I have pastel crosses already growing
If not oh well I still have pastels.

I could understand your point if the situation was of a single male possible new morph and you bred him to other morphs then tried to prove a super from the crossed offspring. This is not the case though.

I guess I could put it in a different perspective. These animals are not the original animal, their father is. So Step 1 ( Breed possible new morph to normals )has been completed already.
The father belongs to my buddy and these are from his clutches. So he still has the father and female offspring he is holding back to try and prove with.
I got 1.2 from him so I also have a shot at proving it out for him.
While waiting for the females to get big enough breed the male into something else and save all the offspring. Breed the male to the 2 females that are not crosses while his offspring with other morphs are growing.
So this gives the ability of proving the "Base Morph" and also being ahead on the crosses if it does prove to have a super.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jknudson

Well, it may be true the "look" is inheritable...but it could be like a phantom and create something even more stunning as a super form. If you breed it to other morphs...you may find out the look is inheritable yes...but you already know that. But you won't know the true genetics or genes at play if you're not seeing the "base morph" working alone. Combos can do some weird things to the appearance you may expect to see.

I think many are too fast to work stuff into combos without seeing what these genes do on their own. You're just going to have yourself a situation like Mr. Emberballs...no super proven for YEARS after hyping up a project...and I know he took a lot of heat for it. Luckily for him the super was more worthwhile, as a new line of fires.

But in the end...they're your animals...do what you will...that's just my suggestion. :)

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Jason makes a good point about not "working" a project enough to understand what you have and what it does. As he so correctly said, proving codom or recessive is important when it comes to marketing/making a morph available to the public. And a few projects of late are getting stung because it is perceived they did not take the time to discover what they are genetically.

However, you could certain gather some valuable information on the project -- aside from making a super --by breeding to a Pastel. My advice is do whatever you want with your breeding -- HAVE FUN --BE BOLD:D Just don't SELL any of them until you can answer more questions than not.:twocents:

It is all yucks and giggles until they leave your collection... Good Luck:gj:!!!!

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

Jason makes a good point about not "working" a project enough to understand what you have and what it does. As he so correctly said, proving codom or recessive is important when it comes to marketing/making a morph available to the public. And a few projects of late are getting stung because it is perceived they did not take the time to discover what they are genetically.

However, you could certain gather some valuable information on the project -- aside from making a super --by breeding to a Pastel. My advice is do whatever you want with your breeding -- HAVE FUN --BE BOLD:D Just don't SELL any of them until you can answer more questions than not.:twocents:

It is all yucks and giggles until they leave your collection... Good Luck:gj:!!!!

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Bill,
I think you see where I am going with this. I never brought into the topic marketing or selling the animals. This topic was a "Hey check this out they are interesting what do you think?"
I would never even think about selling an animal as a new morph until I or someone working with the same genetics proved them out and we had a good understanding of what they were. As far as I am concerned they would be normals until a Super was proven. If a super was not proven I would also try crossing with something like the Yellow Belly to see if it caused something crazy to happen. But guess what that can be done along side trying to prove the Super.
This thread is not about having this crazy new morph that has to be sold to everyone as soon as possible! I don't have 1000's of dollars tied up in a "New Morph" that I have to see a return on as quickly as possible.
So yes, I have every intention of breeding back to figure out what kind of genetics are at play. I the mean time I also plan on some simple crossing just in case it does turn out to be something awsome.
You won't see me selling the "Next Big Morph" out of these unless something crazy comes out of them 1st.

Not arguing with anyone.... Just trying to keep the direction straight here.

So back on the subject of the thread now.

Just looking for opinions and thoughts of the animals!

looks like a hypo yellow belly, though i should have read more than a few posts to see if the details were already given.

I want to thank my buddy Josh for placing this string. My name is Tom Cowell from TCReptiles and am the breeder of the ball everyone is talking about here. I have held back all the females but the 2 that Josh has from me.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply to this string.

Tom

I would breed the male to a Pastel and Cinn, and breed the male to both females.

Now forgive me if I seem stupid.....

but with all due respect, these two snakes pictures mentioned appear to be very nice normals with very nice blushing. Am I missing something obvious?!!!

I think the main thing is that it appears to be a het for a new mutation (I believe it was mentioned that half the offspring looked like this). I really like the color and contrast and ghostly look to these animals but the big excitement will be what the homozygous looks like and of course what cool combos can be made. I've also got a project with some interesting looking hets that would be considered normals compared to say champagne but I'm still excited to try all the combos and eventually find out what the homozygous looks like.

http://homevtour.home.comcast.net/~h...ughter_ssm.jpg

randy that little dude on the right looks fantastic! Hope he proves out for something.

They look very interesting. Good luck proving them out!

Unfortunately it's a girl. I'm not sure I have a male yet to breed back to mom. It varies with some looking more normal than others and I might have sold my only male as a normal but I'm going to try with a mojave son that might have this new gene too. I see some similarities with the animals from this thread but probably two different things. For all of us I think producing the homozygous versions will be a high priority.

Just thought I would update this thread a little bit and ad some photos.

Here are a couple belly pics of the male. He is going into shed and the lighting is not that great in the snake room so he is looking rather dull. But he does have a crazy belly as does the female who doesn't want to cooperate at all with the one handed camera action....LOL.

http://jamillsreptiles.com/images/tc-specialbelly01.jpghttp://jamillsreptiles.com/images/tc-specialbelly02.jpg

Oh yeah, He weighted in at 510 grams a couple days ago before feeding!
He is one of my fastest growing snakes yet!

Looks like some sort of new hypo to me. Very nice!