Head wobble...

I saw a write-up by Adam that says ALL spiders have head wobble of some form or other... It's definitely true for our spider. So, this tells me that it is genetic. So, my question is do bumblebees or any of the spider morphs display this characteristic as well?

Not all of them do. My male, does not. and a friend of mine has been breeding spiders for awhile now, and his Do not.

There are many people that have spiders that do not wobble, so i wouldnt go so far as to say they all do. Non Wobbling spiders, CAN produce wobbling spiders though, and vice versa. But again, its not always the case, one way or the other.

I've read that the spider combos show less signs of wobbles than just the sole spider gene alone.

I'm 99.9% sure that i remember reading on here a while back that someone said that all spider morphs do also have the head wobble. Let me do a quick search and I'll get back to you. I have a spider as well, and the only time I notice it is when she's getting ready to strike, her head sways a bit, and when you flip her over on her back, she doesn't seem to right herself as fast as all of my other BP's. Other than that she's practically perfect in every way!

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Originally Posted by Purrrfect9

I'm 99.9% sure that i remember reading on here a while back that someone said that all spider morphs do also have the head wobble. Let me do a quick search and I'll get back to you. I have a spider as well, and the only time I notice it is when she's getting ready to strike, her head sways a bit, and when you flip her over on her back, she doesn't seem to right herself as fast as all of my other BP's. Other than that she's practically perfect in every way!

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my spider and my bee both only do shake more than others when they are going to strike while eating. other than that my bee is real flighty and my spider is just lazy

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Originally Posted by Purrrfect9

I'm 99.9% sure that i remember reading on here a while back that someone said that all spider morphs do also have the head wobble. Let me do a quick search and I'll get back to you. I have a spider as well, and the only time I notice it is when she's getting ready to strike, her head sways a bit, and when you flip her over on her back, she doesn't seem to right herself as fast as all of my other BP's. Other than that she's practically perfect in every way!

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This is Adam's write-up I'm talking about...
http://forum.8ballpythons.com/blog/?p=5

It says it right there that it is present in "each and every spider, some more noticeable than others". Coming from Adam who has a humongous collection, it has a lot of weight.

I don't really mind the wobble. Mine is very slight and is only noticeable when he's holding his head up for too long. But even if he has more than that it would be fine as long as he's healthy. I was just curious if bumblebees and other spider-based morphs have it as well.

not true my male spider has no wobble at all. But when he does breed there is the possibility that his hatchlings will have a wobble.

There are varying degrees of the wobble. Some do the head shake thing, some cork screw, so are way worse.

I believe that it is also heat related. I noticed that mine was wobbling an awful lot and I was talking to one of my breeder friends and he suggested putting it in the "Coolest" slot of my rack and said that with his he noticed reduced symptoms. Sure enough when his temps were in 88-89 he seemed to calm down a little. He was in a 90-91 slot before. (Woot woot for thermal gradient)

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Originally Posted by AaronP

I believe that it is also heat related. I noticed that mine was wobbling an awful lot and I was talking to one of my breeder friends and he suggested putting it in the "Coolest" slot of my rack and said that with his he noticed reduced symptoms. Sure enough when his temps were in 88-89 he seemed to calm down a little. He was in a 90-91 slot before. (Woot woot for thermal gradient)

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I have also seen this with many of my spiders. I have seen baby's hatch just fine shed and spin like a top. Eat a few meals and stop 99.995% for the spinning.

When I first joined this site a couple months ago it was for this very concern. I bought my first BP, a beautiful Bumblebee, and she exhibited head wobble and while crawling in her cage she did some corkscrew maneuvers. From what I have learned, it is braindamage from inbreeding. I grew to love her even more, she is kind of special. But over the last couple months she has stopped this behavior for the most part. In her cage she occasionally acts strange, but it is getting less all the time. Out of her cage she never does this, she always acts totaly normal. I am beginning to believe this neurological problem is also part of the reason she is such a good pet. My cage is totally dialed in with temps and humidity, lots of hide spots, etc... But she is always out and about and rarely uses her hide spots. She usually sits on a rock or on top of the hide. It is strange that whenever I come near the cage and make noise, she becomes alert and crawls toward the glass. I can pick her up and time and she seems confident and unstressed. So maybe she is too stupid to be scared, so in my opinion she is the perfect pet.

Gary

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I sent a spider to GA it never did any of th extreme stuff I've seen in some others. It gets to GA gets set up and BAM! the thing starts spinning.

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can anyone link me to a video of a spider BP's head wobble? The only one I could find on youtube was removed by the user.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

can anyone link me to a video of a spider BP's head wobble? The only one I could find on youtube was removed by the user.

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NOt my videos

But this spider is a mild spinner. Spinning doesn't really seem to affect them they eat, shed, poop, they are just a little tweaked.

He flops and watch around 1:45 - 1:55 you'll see it sort of nod up and down that some of that spinning

YouTube - Mr. Wibbles Wobbles Part 1
.33 secs - 40 secs.
YouTube - Mr. Wibbles Wobbles Part 2

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Originally Posted by MDB

not true my male spider has no wobble at all. But when he does breed there is the possibility that his hatchlings will have a wobble.

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Just want to make sure I understand... I'm very new to bp's. So, what you're trying to say is that if your spider produces a bumblebee it could have a wobble? Or are you saying if your spider produces another spider it might have a wobble....

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Originally Posted by anatess

Just want to make sure I understand... I'm very new to bp's. So, what you're trying to say is that if your spider produces a bumblebee it could have a wobble? Or are you saying if your spider produces another spider it might have a wobble....

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Both. :gj:

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Originally Posted by gtlevine

. From what I have learned, it is braindamage from inbreeding.

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Actually, I talked to Kevin from NERD about this, they imported one of (if not the) first spiders and she exhibited the "wobble". It's just a genetic trait that has been passed down through all the subsequent generations! It's really not caused by inbreeding.

There's different theories on what causes spiders to "wobble" the one that holds the most weight for me (though I can't confirm or deny it's accuracy) is that the gene which causes the pattern variations is on the same allele as the gene which controls their vision. Thereby causing them to constantly see the world as spinning. No idea if that's true or not I just thought it was kind of interesting.

I've seen, personally in my spider (who I bought from NERD) that he's got some of the "wobble" and he'll do a little bit of corkscrewing when I'm holding him and gets a little shaky sometimes when I offer him food. But all in all he's a happy, healthy little pig of a snake who never refuses a meal.

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Originally Posted by anatess

Just want to make sure I understand... I'm very new to bp's. So, what you're trying to say is that if your spider produces a bumblebee it could have a wobble? Or are you saying if your spider produces another spider it might have a wobble....

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Yes, it could have a wobble (the bee).

I've even seen people who swear that theirs don't wobble, post spider pictures, and you can tell from the picture that theirs also wobbles - just in the tilt of the head that non-spiders seldom display. As Adam describes it in his blog - it's like a puppy tilting it's head when it looks at you - you see the same thing in pictures of most spiders (at least since I've started paying attention to photos).

It may be genetic, but I personally believe it's an equilibrium problem - to varying degrees that all spiders have. I do NOT believe that it's neurological. This is simply my opinion.

Here are a few pictures of mine to show you what I mean about the head tilt in photos - and all of mine "wobble" from barely noticeable to one that loops in her enclosure, but as soon as you take her out and hold her or let her cruise on the floor, shows no signs of a wobble.

Head tilted to side in photo - but no discernable "wobble" in person:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...r/IMG_4724.jpg

This is the one that Ed sent to GA that didn't wobble before he sent her, and she's the one that loops in her enclosure, but acts completely "normal" when handled and cruising around on the floor:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...r/IMG_4674.jpg

You can see a slight head tilt in this photo:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...r/IMG_4684.jpg

and even though Ed didn't notice wobbles with her - she's head tilting in this photo he sent me before she came home:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...r/DSCF5735.jpg

So while I think people genuinely believe that their spiders are wobble free, I don't think that they've looked quite hard enough - that "quirkiness" is there, whether when they are cruising, or when you take pictures you'll see it - it's just part of being a spider - and part of what makes their personality so endearing to so many people!

What I do not understand is I have heard some members in other forums complaining about people breedings spiders with a wobble. Whats the problem with this honestly, I have a spider male 08, with absolutely no problems at all. But I am fully aware that his offspring could have the wobbles, and corkscrews ridicously bad. But the same goes with a spider that has the wobbles his offspring could have no signs at all. So whats the problem?

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Originally Posted by anendeloflorien

Actually, I talked to Kevin from NERD about this, they imported one of (if not the) first spiders and she exhibited the "wobble". It's just a genetic trait that has been passed down through all the subsequent generations! It's really not caused by inbreeding.

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There's only been ONE spider imported from Africa - Kevin's founding spider.

almost everyone Ive seen has it ,mine has it I just call her a little SPECIAL:D

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Originally Posted by gtlevine

From what I have learned, it is braindamage from inbreeding. Gary

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Gary, just so you know - spiders, being a dominant morph - are one of THE most outbred mutations, with very little inbreeding occurring.

If inbreeding were the "culprit" then you'd see far more problems with the recessive genes, that are inbred (at least with a new mutation - to prove it dominant, co-dominant or recessive).

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Originally Posted by MDB

What I do not understand is I have heard some members in other forums complaining about people breedings spiders with a wobble. Whats the problem with this honestly, I have a spider male 08, with absolutely no problems at all. But I am fully aware that his offspring could have the wobbles, and corkscrews ridicously bad. But the same goes with a spider that has the wobbles his offspring could have no signs at all. So whats the problem?

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I don't see a problem. Thats the great thing if you don't like that spider wobble buy a pinstripe or a Mojave. But if your willing to enjoy these animals for their differences and want a spider there are breeders ready to put on in your hand.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I don't see a problem. Thats the great thing if you don't like that spider wobble buy a pinstripe or a Mojave. But if your willing to enjoy these animals for their differences and want a spider there are breeders ready to put on in your hand.

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Well stated.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I don't see a problem. Thats the great thing if you don't like that spider wobble buy a pinstripe or a Mojave. But if your willing to enjoy these animals for their differences and want a spider there are breeders ready to put on in your hand.

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exactly my point!

Yep,if you don't want wobble buy something else.

okay.. last week I received my spider male. He does have a slight wobble. And when I flipped him onto his back, he righted himself immediately so he is not an extreme wobbler. Either way, wobble or not, I got a spider because I enjoy the look and the morphs they produce. I think, after reading different things on the wobble issue, that its similar to a nervious tick in humans.. just something that they have.

The wobble is what makes the spider a spider. They are my favorite morph and I wouldnt want them any other way. Except for some extremely rare unfortunate cases. But if you dont like the wobble as said before shop else where:gj:

I would be ticked if I purchased a spider that has a wobble.

your best bet then is to buy a pinstripe.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I don't see a problem. Thats the great thing if you don't like that spider wobble buy a pinstripe or a Mojave. But if your willing to enjoy these animals for their differences and want a spider there are breeders ready to put on in your hand.

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I love what you said here! I feel exactly the same way, I have no problem with spiders or people who want them, I just don't want them myself, wobbles weird me out just enough to make me choose something else, and that something else is almost definitely a pinstripe, though I have been pondering a woma as well.

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Originally Posted by N4S

I would be ticked if I purchased a spider that has a wobble.

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dont buy a spider then, because they all do just to different degrees. When I purchased my spider I was positive he had no wobble. But when I learned that all spiders have wobbles some just worsed than others, I started realizing little things here and there. The untrained eye would not be able to identify. Go with something else.:)

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Originally Posted by N4S

I would be ticked if I purchased a spider that has a wobble.

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Don't buy a spider then! ;)

edit - didn't see MDB's reply before I wrote mine! LOL

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"This is Adam's write-up I'm talking about...
http://forum.8ballpythons.com/blog/?p=5

It says it right there that it is present in "each and every spider, some more noticeable than others". Coming from Adam who has a humongous collection, it has a lot of weight.
"

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No offense, I don't care how "extensive" Adam's collection is, until he has seen every spider ever produced, (including mine) the above statement is false.

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Originally Posted by mykee

No offense, I don't care how "extensive" Adam's collection is, until he has seen every spider ever produced, (including mine) the above statement is false.

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I dont agree with you, every spider has it if you dont believe me and every other member that has posted this take a pole. And if that doesnt make you a believer contact every big name breeder and they will tell you the same thing

I have not seen evidence of a wobble in the '06 spider that I purchased from Adam last year. If I recall correctly, she was a hold back of his and he had not seen evidence of a wobble either.

THAT SAID, there are environmental factors (stress) that can elicit the wobble response. Maybe my spider isn't stressed :D Maybe she needs more stress-- wish the darn girl would breed ;)

I know that VPI is now rating the amount of wobble on their spiders so that every customer understands what they are getting. I think that's a good idea; at least it's better than saying nothing :)

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Originally Posted by mykee

No offense, I don't care how "extensive" Adam's collection is, until he has seen every spider ever produced, (including mine) the above statement is false.

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Adam is not the only breeder to make that statement. Ralph and Kevin both have, that I know of, and multiple other breeders have all stated that they believe that ALL spiders have a degree of wobble to them - from just barely noticeable to full out spinners.

It is becoming more "accepted" knowledge that all spiders have this to some degree. Even VPI is rating theirs.

I personally don't think the wobble is a bad thing - it seems those most offended with statements that all spiders spin are those that seem to be worried the most about some negative stigma associated with them.

The more people acknowledge that it's just part of being a spider, the less "taboo" it will be.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

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The more people acknowledge that it's just part of being a spider, the less "taboo" it will be.

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Well said. Now I wish we could acknowledge the diversity within the human animals and get rid of all of those 'taboos' also ;)