Your thoughts? Poor girl..

Yes, this is the second time in two days I've solicited feedback - I need it more now than I did yesterday, and after this I'll be done (for a little while anyway).

I picked up this girl at the same time I got my new pastel (two days ago). She was very reasonably priced, and one or two of you might even recognize her. She's possibly a yellow belly, but I got her really cheap because of her condition. She's hissy and I don't trust her not to strike until I get her out of her cage, but after I do, she's a sweetie (i had to help her shed today, but I'm letting her acclimate).

So I'm going to attempt to put a poll with two questions: "YB or not?" and "would *you* breed this girl?" If you say no to the breeding question and you feel like explaining yourself, by all means. I'm spelling this out because i'm not sure if i'm going to be able to make the poll w/ both questions - we'll see.

Anyway here are her photos:


http://pics.livejournal.com/maru_mari/pic/0002a4zs

http://pics.livejournal.com/maru_mari/pic/0002by2z

This is why we don't put bulbs/heat rocks in the enclosure :(:mad::no:
http://pics.livejournal.com/maru_mari/pic/0002c86p

http://pics.livejournal.com/maru_mari/pic/0002dcxg

http://pics.livejournal.com/maru_mari/pic/0002e065

http://pics.livejournal.com/maru_mari/pic/0002ftsb

http://pics.livejournal.com/maru_mari/pic/0002ghkr

http://pics.livejournal.com/maru_mari/pic/0002h581

kinda a weird pic here, but it shows her belly
http://pics.livejournal.com/maru_mari/pic/0002pby6

http://pics.livejournal.com/maru_mari/pic/0002qzqb

Her injuries are fully healed and she appears to be as healthy as she'll ever be. No abscesses or anything like that - just a big ugly black scar on an otherwise really pretty snake. I named her Else after a Hindenburg survivor.

I couldn't add the second question: "Would you breed this girl or not" to the poll - I'd like to hear people's individual opinions on this matter.

That is some terrible scarring. Do you know how exactly she got her injuries? I would think that heat rocks generally burn the stomach - was she snuggled under a heat lamp or something?

From what I know about YB's it looks a lot like one - I own one also. As far as breeding goes I will leave that question to the experts to chime in on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by icygirl

That is some terrible scarring. Do you know how exactly she got her injuries? I would think that heat rocks generally burn the stomach - was she snuggled under a heat lamp or something?

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I was told a heat rock, but I agree that makes no sense (her belly seems unscathed). I'm guessing it was a heat lamp (it had to be something from.. above...)

The person I bought her from is not the one who caused her injuries, and he didn't seem to have clear information about who did.

normal
there is no way i woulda paid for that snake in that condition

Looks like a beautiful normal with a nasty scar... and I agree with the heat lamp... maybe it was directly on something metal in the tank and she rubbed her back up against it... who knows... poor thing...:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Butters420

normal
there is no way i woulda paid for that snake in that condition

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thanks for your optimism, but like i said, she's healed, i got a good price, and for goodness sakes at least i know she'll never go through *that* again in my care!

I half bought her out of pity, but she's a nice girl either way.

Could have been a vicious rat....

Shes beautiful, but a normal.

normal i think, i agree, i wouldnt pay for a snake that was that mis treated. but im glad you got it out of that environment.:gj:

I would not breed her for 2 main reasons.

- 1.) I would feel like she had been through enough in her life and didn't need the stress of reproduction.

- 2.) I would worry that some of that sizable damage involved nerves (being along her spine) or muscle and that it might add a sizable risk to her survival if she were to reproduce.

To me just because you physically can breed something doesn't mean you should. That your primary question is whether or not she is a morph makes me think you have already made up your mind.....

My .02


~Kat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janeothejungle

That your primary question is whether or not she is a morph makes me think you have already made up your mind.....

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I don't think that's fair at all. I put the yellowbelly question as the poll question because people can answer that yes or no without having to explain themselves. Breeding her vs. not breeding her begs the opportunity to explain oneself, so of the two questions, it was less suited to the poll method of answer-collecting.

I don't suppose you could have looked at the fact that I asked what people thought about breeding her in the first place to demonstrate that I hadn't made up my mind and that I was genuinely looking for some thoughts to consider? I don't mean to get testy, but having folks deciding things are true about me without bothering to even ask is perhaps the strongest of my personal pet peeves.

Ignoring the things that bothered me about your response, your insight on the breeding issue makes a lot of sense, and is appreciated.

Sorry I'm no expert in breeding or morphs but I am very glad she is in your hands. Very sad to see an animal that's been put through that.

Hopefully she will be able to adjust and thrive in your care. Best of luck!

just a pretty normal and im with Kat. Dontcha think she has been through enough stress and came out ahead why push the envelope.

Not a YB. That poor girl has been through enough already. I most definately NOT breed her, when you could get nice adult breedable females without the nasty scars for cheap. What I would do though, is use her to educate people on how to care for their snakes, which she clearly shows how careless and owner can be. :( Can't say much for the person who SOLD her to you as well......in that condition he should have GIVEN her to you...geeez!

cant really tell from those pics if she's a YB but she is very pretty.

Those scars aren't small by any means, and if you bred her, she would no doubt get wider... causing her skin to stretch, and my guess is it would be a VERY painful experience for her. Poor thing has been thru the ringer and felt enough pain already :(

Don't breed her, just love her and give her the care she deserves!

I've seen female with scarred backs lay eggs with no apparent problems. But never that bad.

I probably wouldn't breed her.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by filly77

cant really tell from those pics if she's a YB but she is very pretty.

Those scars aren't small by any means, and if you bred her, she would no doubt get wider... causing her skin to stretch, and my guess is it would be a VERY painful experience for her. Poor thing has been thru the ringer and felt enough pain already :(

Don't breed her, just love her and give her the care she deserves!

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Very well put and explained. i agree 100% even though it is possible she could breed she has been through enough by the looks of that scar. i would not ever attempt to breed her you should just love her and take very good care of her as stated above.

I have never seen one scarred so bad that survived. Glad she is in a new home! Poor baby. One thing to consider is the fact that scar tissue is not as elastic as normal tissue. Breeding her could cause severe trauma. I'm still surprised she healed so well! I would have probably paid to make sure she was safe too! I'm a sucker for an injured animal.:)

the scarring is pretty nasty but it kinda makes her look pretty gangsta lol :cool:

There is no way I would breed that snake.

I would never breed a snake so badly scarred.. She should be put up in a perfect enclosure and fed rats whenever she wants them..!! Treat her like a queen she's been through enough as it is.. Let us know what you decide..

Alan

I think you guys are right. It sucks because I badly want to test her genetics (she has most of the YB markers according to HGM), but considering what ovulation could do to the wound tissue - if it opened her up again i could never forgive myself.

Her motor functions are normal, I'm happy to say: she climbs and contorts herself like any other snake i have. I had to assist shed her the day after she came home, and every muscle in her body feels normal and strong. I'm wondering how deep of a wound it was - but yeah, it does look pretty amazingly awful, and is a cause for concern.

The guy that sold her to me was talking about pairing her up with his males like it was the most sensible thing in the world to do, which is why I wanted to hear what other people thought - not because I necessarily have plans to breed her.

The poor darling hisses very softly when you first go in and touch her, but she very patiently allowed me to assist her shed (including removing spectacles). She's a very sweet girl and I already love her a great deal.

I am glad you have decided not to breed her. I agree with all those that said NOT to make her go through that. I have seen how my girls blow up like balloons and it cant be comfortable for them and they dont have any scar tissue on them. I am glad she is living with you and that you know the proper way to care for her. Seems to me she has been to hadies and back again. Poor poor girl.

As far as breeding, really not sure on that... and it looks to me to be a tearing scar... you see them sometimes when a snake escapes an enclosure with a wire lid... they basically scrape their entire dorsal in so doing. But yet also looks like burns.

I know people that have bred scarred and *damaged* snakes to no ill effect. If you are seriously considering it, I would contact a vet that also breeds and get their opinion. They may have more concise information (emotive responses are good - but concrete answers are good too) regarding her physical capacity and potential damage, or just areas of concern.

As far as being a YB. I would never think that by looking at her. YBs have such specific belly patterns and even the manner of blushing does not look YB. I would say hands down no... just my two hands mind you.

Bruce

While I appreciate all the differing and varied opinions.

It's hard to form my own opinion without seeing the pictures (they don't show for me).

I can say that I received (free) in a batch of normals that I purchased...a girl that had extensive scaring down her dorsal. I do not see any reason not to breed her. She gains weight well, which tells me that her swelling would not present an issue.

She sheds in one piece (when I first got her her sheds were raggedy until her scales healed completely and it's been enough time to smooth them out so that she now sheds in one piece. She's able to eat large rats and that hasn't presented any problem with her "bludging."

So, if your girl is really healed up, I really do not see any reason not to breed her other than the emotional ones presented.

Honestly I don't think you're missing out on much by not breeding her. Her stomach doesn't look like a YB at all. The black is much less random and heavier on a YB, it almost lines the side of the belly where it goes from color to white belly, not all over the belly. I'm sure that was confusing, but double check Jon's Hunters Guide To Morphs again and you'll understand what I'm saying. They need to have the markers like flames AND they have to have the belly markers, otherwise you've got yourself a flaming normal. :D

She's pretty though, poor thing :(


Her belly kind of reminds me of my normal female's tummy. Really random and lots of black
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...a/Isis/042.jpg

Now if her whole belly looked like this I would bet money she was a yellow belly. But, since it doesn't, she doesn't stand a cold day in h*** at being a YB
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...Isis/042-1.jpg

I just want to say something about the scar.
A few years ago I bought a female and her head was just nothing but scar from a lightbulb being in her enclosure. Now 3 years later and many sheds there is no scar at all her scales have completly healed and the color is back. Im not saying your girls will be like this but I would think there would be a noticable reduction of scarring as time and sheds go by. Id be intrested to see if that is the case with this little girl as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sinsation

I just want to say something about the scar.
A few years ago I bought a female and her head was just nothing but scar from a lightbulb being in her enclosure. Now 3 years later and many sheds there is no scar at all her scales have completly healed and the color is back. Im not saying your girls will be like this but I would think there would be a noticable reduction of scarring as time and sheds go by. Id be intrested to see if that is the case with this little girl as well.

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she's not terribly small, i'm sorry to say - she's well past 1400 grams. I don't think she has a lot of growing left to help cover it up.

1400g is small... she could hit 3000g +++... keep feeding her, keep her healthy. Re-evaluate NEXT season, that gives her a year.

Bruce

I am so happy to see that you bought her in her condition. I would have done the same thing. I typically look for snakes that need to be rescued. 3 of my snakes are rescues and I bought my BP from a breeder. Congrats on her and I hope she lives a long and healthy life with you. I would still run her by a vet just to check her out because of her obvious neglect. My first rescue was a BP and he died after 2 weeks and almost a 1,000 dollars in vet care because of the severity of his neglect. RIP THOR! Congrats! (I would not breed her) :gj:

Well, it's good that you're able to give her a proper home now, after her having to go through whatever cause that scarring. I am not qualified to advise on whether or not, beeding would be painful or otherwise detrimental to her, so I won't advise on that.. but I wish you luck with her, and am glad to know that one more neglected animal in this wirld, is with a knowledgible person :)

SHE is really pretty ....i wish i could hug her i feel so bad ....how long is she ???