Best big snake?

I'm pretty much a beginner; I have a BP. I love snakes though, and I was wondering what would be the best >big< snake for a kinda-beginner that is friendly, moderately easy to care for...... :) Just curious.

you should find a store or somebody with a full grown "big" snake. They seem really cool but are pretty intimidating in person. Make sure you hold and handle a big snake before you get a cute baby.

bci or bcc (boas) get big. Not giant in the same manner of reticulated or burmese pythons, but I'd spend a few years with one of those before even thinking of going with something else that could potentially get bigger than 10 foot.

If you're seriously considering a giant someday, your best bet is burmese or reticulated python.

also, all giants have the potential to be mean, and even the nicest ones have the potential to have one aggressive moment.. which can be very dangerous. Any snake over 10' should have 2 adults around when handling. I'm not saying 10 footers can kill you, but if one didn't want to go back in its cage, or did in fact strike and constrict, it's nice to have an extra pair of hands to help since they're too strong to imagine until you actually have to deal with that kind of situation.

I agree, before u get into the giants, get a bci or bcc. They don't get as big as a burmese or retic, but they are definately stronger than a bp!! I have a 8ft, 35lb female bci, who can be a handful at times...couldn't imagine a 15+ft, 100lb+ giant giving u problems...lol

you should get an olive python they get good sized but not monster sizes heres a picture of one
http://www.reptilesbyah.com/photos/Olive/1of.jpg

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DG

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

bci or bcc (boas) get big. Not giant in the same manner of reticulated or burmese pythons, but I'd spend a few years with one of those before even thinking of going with something else that could potentially get bigger than 10 foot.

If you're seriously considering a giant someday, your best bet is burmese or reticulated python.

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Honestly, I don't agree with this in any way. Bci, and Bcc do not, in any way, prepare you in any sense for a true giant. They just do not compare in any way/shape/form when it comes to strength, stature, size, etc. They even react/act entirely different, and to different stimuli, than the true giants.

As for the size reference with them. Their size does not compare, nor girth. Not even when it comes to safety. Your better bet...get hands on with a true Giant. Talk to as many keepers and breeders as you can, and make the dive head first. Do your homework on them, and you should do fine. Although their growth is rapid, they do not just blow up overnight. There is plenty of trial and error time in that growth period to learn about that individual animal. Treat them as individuals. Even as a species in general, each act/react/move differently than one another. Learn each movement they make and pay attention. Biggest thing is no matter how placid the animal is, do not let it lull you into a false sense of security. It is how people get seriously injured or killed, due to FR's.

As for a Retic being a good beginner "true" giant.....furthest from the truth. No giant is a good beginner giant. Period. They all have different aspects that make them both good, and bad choices as far as attitude, husbandry, medical aspects, etc. Look through and pick the species that best catches your interest. The one you love the most. Do the mentioned....learn about it, read about it, talk to experienced individuals about it, and get hands on with it....then when you feel you are ready, make the plunge. Good luck in whatever you choose :salute:

omg that olive python is GORGEOUS!

I don't know anything about them, but I wouldn't turn one down if someone tried to give me one.. :D

cera I didn't say that they were good beginner giants. I said that if he was to EVER get a giant, his best bet would be retic or burmese.

In fact the purpose of my post was to try to emphasize that giants are not to be tangled by a beginner. He asked about big snakes, and although this is posted in the giant snake section, there's no arguing against the fact that boas are big, docile, and definitely fit the "beginner" herper BILLIONS of times better than any giant.

I was just trying to tell him that you can't just jump from a BP to a giant snake. You can't just go to a pet store and play with a big burm a few days and become qualified. You also can't just read online for any amount of time and get no hands on experience and be qualified. Unless you're working on a snake farm or for a zoo, I highly believe there are intermediate steps that need to be taken before ownership of a giant snake is safe. I definitely believe that some of those steps should be spending lots of quality time with increasingly larger snakes in your home.

"Taking a plunge" into giants is not recommended.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

cera I didn't say that they were good beginner giants. I said that if he was to EVER get a giant, his best bet would be retic or burmese.

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Explain why?...

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

In fact the purpose of my post was to try to emphasize that giants are not to be tangled by a beginner. He asked about big snakes, and although this is posted in the giant snake section, there's no arguing against the fact that boas are big, docile, and definitely fit the "beginner" herper BILLIONS of times better than any giant.

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Every giant keeper was a beginner at one point or another, and most had done what I had stated...Hard facts of life. Nobody starts out an experienced keeper, and although they fit the better "large snake" bill, they are not giants and do not compare in any way, shape or form. End of that...

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

I was just trying to tell him that you can't just jump from a BP to a giant snake. You can't just go to a pet store and play with a big burm a few days and become qualified. You also can't just read online for any amount of time and get no hands on experience and be qualified. Unless you're working on a snake farm or for a zoo, I highly believe there are intermediate steps that need to be taken before ownership of a giant snake is safe. I definitely believe that some of those steps should be spending lots of quality time with increasingly larger snakes in your home.

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Now who said a few days? When you feel you are ready to take on a giant, that is your choice alone. I myself started out in giants. You are not starting out with a 20 foot snake, so yes, reading safety precautions, and husbandry techniques and articles will help greatly. You learn as you go, and as the animal grows. Hands on doesn't do too much for you either, as they all react differently. Your point?...

As for intermediate snakes. I laugh at that. There is no "intermediate". You either work with true giants, or you work with large snakes. Work with what you love. That's it. Those steps you take before buying your giant is what I've stated already. That is the learning process. Hands on with that species, and that species only, is what will prepare you for that species. Retics will not prepare you for AfRocks, and Burms will not prepare you for Retics. Same goes for Boas...Boas will not prepare you for any of the true giants in any way.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

"Taking a plunge" into giants is not recommended.

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Says who? You?.... :rofl: Please tell me what in your experience lends you to give that statement?....

If you are saying this due to feelings, don't. Feelings on a subject is one thing, however experience is a whole new ball game.

I should ammend my last statement.

"Taking a plunge" into giants is not recommended, because more often than not, the people who do end up not being able to give good care for their snakes, "releasing" them outdoors, etc.

I've seen too many frat boys with green anacondas thinking that they would be able to properly care for one, and it always ends badly for the snake.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

I should ammend my last statement.

"Taking a plunge" into giants is not recommended, because more often than not, the people who do end up not being able to give good care for their snakes, "releasing" them outdoors, etc.

I've seen too many frat boys with green anacondas thinking that they would be able to properly care for one, and it always ends badly for the snake.

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You're grouping everyone as a whole, which is fairly irritating. What is your experience with giants? If you have no experience, other than "seeing" what you claim, then why butt heads? As I said, experience is a whole new ball game....where as feelings and "opinions" with nothing valid to back it up other than the abandonment bs is just that...bs.

Taking a plunge is exactly WHAT you do. These are not Ball Pythons, nor Boas. They show a much higher degree of intelligence and awareness...that I will back up. You do not know what to expect off the bat with each animal, so it takes time, patience, and learning with that individual animal.

Anyways, thanks everybody! For now, I can't come close to housing a snake that takes any larger than a 50 gallon, but I love snakes so much, there is definitely some big ones in my future. :)

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

You're grouping everyone as a whole, which is fairly irritating. What is your experience with giants? If you have no experience, other than "seeing" what you claim, then why butt heads? As I said, experience is a whole new ball game....where as feelings and "opinions" with nothing valid to back it up other than the abandonment bs is just that...bs.

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Just my experience with the Houston ASPCA and local animal rescue centers. I'm not much of a giant snake guy, but I've been around them enough to give them proper respect and try get people to understand what they would be getting themselves into if they ever considered one.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

Just my experience with the Houston ASPCA and local animal rescue centers. I'm not much of a giant snake guy, but I've been around them enough to give them proper respect and try get people to understand what they would be getting themselves into if they ever considered one.

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Being around them, and keeping them first hand are two different things. I'd take the advice of the experienced keeper, over the guy who's "seen stuff" with an animal shelter before...

Honestly, if it were that hard or impossible to care for them, don't you believe the market would have never held to begin with? As well as that, the information available today would have never been gathered, nor the variety of species never established.

I have to agree with Andrew on these points..

Normally I stay away from stuff like this by only owning one Burm (Darn Restricted Space) but I suppose I have to chime in ;)

I think even if your best bud bobby (Haha I am on a "B" fit) owns numerous giants and you are able to go over there and have hands on with the animals all the time... That is not the same as OWNING one yourself. Sure that would be a lot of fun and great for the mind. I mean picturing a full grown giant and seeing one is different. I took the plunge a while ago and I am having a blast doing it too, I could never see myself without my "Baby". In my opinion nothing rates up to a giant. They are impressive and amazing in every way. I get butterflies just thinking about them. Just remember you can only read and see so much.

My advise is think on it.. Think a lot. I mean this is an animal that if you do take in, you sign that invisible paper saying that you will care for this animal at all cost so be prepared on that note.

BUT if you do decide to get one.. You better post pics :gj:

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch Art

BUT if you do decide to get one.. You better post pics :gj:

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Seconded :D

forget all of this advise. you need to go right for a wc fully grown green anaconda!

on the serious note, im not very experienced with giant snakes at all but from people that I know, they generally started with burms.

a tad of advice,
i love my red tails, but i must say that it is hard for me to find time to take my 7.5 foot girl out, event though she is a baby doll, there is still that chance that something could happen. So i dont take her out unless one of my parents are home. I will admit she does intimidate me, but that is because i know what she has the power to do :)

Im in no way saying my boa is a "giant" but i will say that i took that plunge from BPs to a 7.5 foot female beast of a boa. no in between :) well other than JCPs and such...

now BP to Burm... yeah, i personally would work myself up to a burm... :)

Personally, I'd prefer that if someone comes into a forum such as this, asking for advice, that unless you have actual experience, then don't give "advice". I don't own any snakes larger than a JCP, so I can't five giant advice. I don't see why people are so compelled to post in every single thread, even if they don't have anything truly relevant to say.

If I decided to take the plunge into retics, and came to a forum like this for advice...I'd want the experts to chime in. Imagine my surprise if I bought a Burmese after someone here helped me, only to find out you're on your first ball python that you've owned for three months. Just my .02.

Thank you for that post, MiniJ83 :gj:

I just bought my first giant-esque snake. I got a half super dwarf reticulated python. We're expecting him to get anywhere from 8-10 feet but will be fully prepared if he grows larger than that. We figure, might as well work our way up the size ladder. Try a smaller retic and if we decide later that we're ready for something bigger, we'll go for it.

But, we just got him a few weeks ago, so we'll see how it works. What works for us may not work for everybody else. Hope this helps.

I entirely see the point on both sides.

Like I was saying once, the ease when handling a ball python isn't comparable to a full grown large snake like a boa.

My boa, when he wants to go somewhere, he will go. His strength and will power is quite a bit more determined than any of my ball pythons. When he grips my arms, or hangs onto furniture, I'm pleasantly surprised. He is strong, just pure muscle and grip.

I can move him where I want him to go... eventually. :P But I couldn't imagine trying to get a retic or burm to go if they don't want to.

I say, keep that in the back of your head. It is useful to get experience with larger snakes, but none of it will prepare you fully until you get to experience giants first hand, but it is a first step.

I also believe for the sake of the animal and our community, that you really prepare yourself, and act responsibly when considering a giant animal. It is unfortunate to see these beautiful animals let go, in rescues, etc because your life has changed in where you cannot keep the animal, or can no longer cater to his needs for the rest of his long very expensive life. ;)

Just my .02 cents (even though I have never owned a giant, so some may believe I'm just blowing smoke in respect to what I consider common sense ;))

Advice cannot be given if experience, is not acquired.

I dunno - I'd probably listen to the person who has giant experience over those that do not...

It doesn't really make sense to keep a large snake to prepare for a giant - you end up having to feed a large snake with a different attitude and it's not even the animal you want! Save that money for feeders and large equipment - you're gonna need it!

If you want to prepare for a giant, find someone who owns them and volunteer to work for them for a few weeks - handling, changing substrate, etc.etc.etc. That's the only preparation i can think of that makes any sense at all - so you can get a sense of what the end-point could end up being. As far as "working up" to that end point goes - you're pretty much forced to practice with a progressively larger and larger snake anyway by having your giant grow up right in front of you. Clever how that works, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

These are not Ball Pythons, nor Boas. They show a much higher degree of intelligence and awareness...that I will back up.

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I have a JCP, BP, and BCI boa. They all act differently...but can I claim that one is "more intelligent" than another? This I am uncertain about. I will say that my JCP is the most visually aware...my BP probably being the least. I find my boa to be the most active when she is taken out...and is the most "thoughtful" in her movement.

Can you explain to me how a larger snake is "more intelligent" than a smaller one?

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Originally Posted by clapton924

I have a JCP, BP, and BCI boa. They all act differently...but can I claim that one is "more intelligent" than another? This I am uncertain about. I will say that my JCP is the most visually aware...my BP probably being the least. I find my boa to be the most active when she is taken out...and is the most "thoughtful" in her movement.

Can you explain to me how a larger snake is "more intelligent" than a smaller one?

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Talk to any Retic, or AfRock keeper any you will understand. Not only are they incredibly alert snakes....they will follow your movement, size you up (including possible prey), "learn" their surroundings, and can, to an extent, differentiate between people, and places. They are very clever, intelligent snakes. It takes first hand experience to truly understand, and admire their intelligence.

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

Talk to any Retic, or AfRock keeper any you will understand. Not only are they incredibly alert snakes....they will follow your movement, size you up (including possible prey), "learn" their surroundings, and can, to an extent, differentiate between people, and places. They are very clever, intelligent snakes. It takes first hand experience to truly understand, and admire their intelligence.

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Are burms also considered "intelligent" ?

I would consider burms an intelligent snake yes. Maybe not as intelligent as a retic, but very very keen

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Originally Posted by clapton924

Are burms also considered "intelligent" ?

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Burms are basically the same species as African Rock Pythons. So yes, they are very intelligent.

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Originally Posted by clapton924

Are burms also considered "intelligent" ?

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The extent of my burm's intelligence: "If I bang on the walls of my cage hard enough, maybe they'll think I'm hungry and feed me." and "Oh! poo makes a good pillow!"

Of our four snakes, the burm is definitely the most interactive and fun to watch. He knows you're there and he wants you to FEED HIM NOW OMG! *slighter-slither-tip-over-water-bang-on-door*

Everyone else just sleeps/hides.

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

Talk to any Retic, or AfRock keeper any you will understand. Not only are they incredibly alert snakes....they will follow your movement, size you up (including possible prey), "learn" their surroundings, and can, to an extent, differentiate between people, and places. They are very clever, intelligent snakes. It takes first hand experience to truly understand, and admire their intelligence.

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These snake no matter how large do not have a brain big enough to be what would be considered intelligent, or clever. I will give you alert, but the rest of that not so much. You show me a burm that can pick a lock and escape I will take it all back.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

These snake no matter how large do not have a brain big enough to be what would be considered intelligent, or clever. I will give you alert, but the rest of that not so much. You show me a burm that can pick a lock and escape I will take it all back.

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They're not primates. Simply said. They don't use tools, nor anything of the likes. How many other animals considered intelligent, do you see "picking locks"? I've never seen a dog pick a lock. Neither have I seen a pig, nor cat. Come to think of it, the only animals I can think of known to do that are primates...

However they can judge people to an extent on who is who, and differentiate with their heat signatures, body size, body shape, and smell. It has been seen and proven. Otherwise, hook training would play no part in their keeping, nor their survival when judging the size of prey, where to catch, when to catch, etc. They are intelligent animals along the lines of boidae...some of the brightest. Claim hook training is just conditioning, or claim it doesn't work at all....but conditioning is part of learning...even for these "dumb" animals as you so claim. Don't believe it? Then don't. I'm not here to preach to you, or argue. I'll simply give the information from first hand "experience". It is your choice to accept it or move on.

I am not arguing this with you either. when I said a lock picking snake I was being a little extreme. It has been scientifically proven that an animals brain size relates directly to its intelligence that is all I am saying.

Now doubt snakes can tell different sizes and shapes other wise how would they be able to tell what they could eat and what is too big, but are you saying that a snake can tell who is who from their heat signatures. Like a snake could tell the difference between you and me based off my heat signature. How has that been proven? Now maybe a snake could tell you from me by our smell but again how do you prove that beyond you own personnel feeling about how a snake interacts with you. I think that we want to project how we see the world because that is our only frame of reference and who is to say that any animal interrupts the world the same way we do.

I never said these animals were dumb so please don't put words in my mouth. This has nothing to do with being smart or dumb that is what I am saying. These animals act on instinct period, and to think otherwise is the setup to how people end up on the news killed by there large constrictor.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

You show me a burm that can pick a lock and escape I will take it all back.

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I guess you've never heard the story of a retic escaping its (locked) cage only to get into another males (locked) cage to fight to the death.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

Now doubt snakes can tell different sizes and shapes other wise how would they be able to tell what they could eat and what is too big, but are you saying that a snake can tell who is who from their heat signatures. Like a snake could tell the difference between you and me based off my heat signature. How has that been proven? Now maybe a snake could tell you from me by our smell but again how do you prove that beyond you own personnel feeling about how a snake interacts with you. I think that we want to project how we see the world because that is our only frame of reference and who is to say that any animal interrupts the world the same way we do.

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Oh believe me, I know quite a few people with retics that would be considered 'puppy dog tame' with one person and a major d1ck to the rest of the world.

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

Being around them, and keeping them first hand are two different things. I'd take the advice of the experienced keeper, over the guy who's "seen stuff" with an animal shelter before...

Honestly, if it were that hard or impossible to care for them, don't you believe the market would have never held to begin with? As well as that, the information available today would have never been gathered, nor the variety of species never established.

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It really irritates me when people push large constrictors especially when you are talking about a 2nd snake for someone. Seriously with all the legislation upcoming. The wild breeding populations of burms that were dumped in the everglades and are now thriving, which I am sure has nothing to do with giant being hard or impossible for most people to care for. I am just wondering when large constrictor keepers and breeders are going to take some responsibility for there hand in all of this or are they just going to ride this into the ground. I am sure I will get flack for saying this but honestly I don't care.

I could go on but I fear my mouth will get the better of me as it tends to do. I will say for the original poster that I think a Jungle would be a nice larger snake maybe a coastal if you want the high side around 10 feet. I am not really a Boa guy so I can't comment on them at all.

Chuck

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Originally Posted by RKO

I guess you've never heard the story of a retic escaping its (locked) cage only to get into another males (locked) cage to fight to the death.

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Now see I had not heard that one, well there you have it and I stand corrected LOL

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Originally Posted by Chuck

It really irritates me when people push large constrictors especially when you are talking about a 2nd snake for someone. Seriously with all the legislation upcoming. The wild breeding populations of burms that were dumped in the everglades and are now thriving, which I am sure has nothing to do with giant being hard or impossible for most people to care for. I am just wondering when large constrictor keepers and breeders are going to take some responsibility for there hand in all of this or are they just going to ride this into the ground. I am sure I will get flack for saying this but honestly I don't care.

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You see, this what irritates me about "non-giant" owners. You complain and nag about how inexperienced people are, and how other people push ownership on others. This person came here looking for information on the best giant, and I laid it out solid for him, as such....

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

No giant is a good beginner giant. Period. They all have different aspects that make them both good, and bad choices as far as attitude, husbandry, medical aspects, etc. Look through and pick the species that best catches your interest. The one you love the most. Do the mentioned....learn about it, read about it, talk to experienced individuals about it, and get hands on with it....then when you feel you are ready, make the plunge. Good luck in whatever you choose

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All the non-giant keepers do is see something, and comment, with no true knowledge on what is actually going on. As breeders, it is not our responsibility to be these keepers "moms". If they want a retic, burm, anaconda, afrock, etc, it is THEIR responsibility to determine whether or not they can possibly care for the animal or not; not ours. The most we can do is educate them on the animals. We do not know what their situation is, how much money they make, where they live, or how much knowledge they have...and screening customers....what good is it when you ask simple questions, and they can quickly google them to find an answer. Answers from experienced keepers on forums will even be brought up on google, giving them a quick in....

As for difficulty on keeping them...how difficult is it to keep one, with your knowledge on them? How many giants do you own?

Their care is completely straight forward. They will even feed when ill, sickly, injured, or stressed. Try getting a Ball Python to do that. Their husbandry aspects such as heating, and humidity....very simple. Much more so than with Balls, and the various other pythons available. You don't need hides for them, or anything. The "only" difficulty is cost, and cost isn't all that much now a days with the availability of larger prey from feed suppliers, and lower priced plastic caging made from companies such as Animal Plastics. That takes the costly expense out of custom built caging... Safety is a fairly easy aspect, as long as you learn from the right sources.

The everglades...bs, straight up. If it were being just giants released due to that, then how are there Lemurs, Komodo Dragon, Nile Monitor, Crocodile monitor, various paradise birds, and a large other list of species THRIVING in the everglades? Even various species of theraphosids, and plants have been thriving for decades. Still going to blame that "inexperienced" keeper? Or how about the destruction of all those homes, zoological institutions, rehab centers, and various other facilities during the hurricanes? Ever think hurricanes had something to do with it? What about Green Iguana? Green Iguana have been documented in the southern part of Florida since the 1920's, if not earlier. Long before majority of the exotic pet trade really boomed.

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

You see, this what irritates me about "non-giant" owners. You complain and nag about how inexperienced people are, and how other people push ownership on others. This person came here looking for information on the best giant, and I laid it out solid for him, as such....




All the non-giant keepers do is see something, and comment, with no true knowledge on what is actually going on. As breeders, it is not our responsibility to be these keepers "moms". If they want a retic, burm, anaconda, afrock, etc, it is THEIR responsibility to determine whether or not they can possibly care for the animal or not; not ours. The most we can do is educate them on the animals. We do not know what their situation is, how much money they make, where they live, or how much knowledge they have...and screening customers....what good is it when you ask simple questions, and they can quickly google them to find an answer. Answers from experienced keepers on forums will even be brought up on google, giving them a quick in....

As for difficulty on keeping them...how difficult is it to keep one, with your knowledge on them? How many giants do you own?

Their care is completely straight forward. They will even feed when ill, sickly, injured, or stressed. Try getting a Ball Python to do that. Their husbandry aspects such as heating, and humidity....very simple. Much more so than with Balls, and the various other pythons available. You don't need hides for them, or anything. The "only" difficulty is cost, and cost isn't all that much now a days with the availability of larger prey from feed suppliers, and lower priced plastic caging made from companies such as Animal Plastics. That takes the costly expense out of custom built caging... Safety is a fairly easy aspect, as long as you learn from the right sources.

The everglades...bs, straight up. If it were being just giants released due to that, then how are there Lemurs, Komodo Dragon, Nile Monitor, Crocodile monitor, various paradise birds, and a large other list of species THRIVING in the everglades? Even various species of theraphosids, and plants have been thriving for decades. Still going to blame that "inexperienced" keeper? Or how about the destruction of all those homes, zoological institutions, rehab centers, and various other facilities during the hurricanes? Ever think hurricanes had something to do with it? What about Green Iguana? Green Iguana have been documented in the southern part of Florida since the 1920's, if not earlier. Long before majority of the exotic pet trade really boomed.

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i completly agree with andrew.
and trust me, he knows his stuff.

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

You see, this what irritates me about "non-giant" owners. You complain and nag about how inexperienced people are, and how other people push ownership on others. This person came here looking for information on the best giant, and I laid it out solid for him, as such....




All the non-giant keepers do is see something, and comment, with no true knowledge on what is actually going on. As breeders, it is not our responsibility to be these keepers "moms". If they want a retic, burm, anaconda, afrock, etc, it is THEIR responsibility to determine whether or not they can possibly care for the animal or not; not ours. The most we can do is educate them on the animals. We do not know what their situation is, how much money they make, where they live, or how much knowledge they have...and screening customers....what good is it when you ask simple questions, and they can quickly google them to find an answer. Answers from experienced keepers on forums will even be brought up on google, giving them a quick in....

As for difficulty on keeping them...how difficult is it to keep one, with your knowledge on them? How many giants do you own?

Their care is completely straight forward. They will even feed when ill, sickly, injured, or stressed. Try getting a Ball Python to do that. Their husbandry aspects such as heating, and humidity....very simple. Much more so than with Balls, and the various other pythons available. You don't need hides for them, or anything. The "only" difficulty is cost, and cost isn't all that much now a days with the availability of larger prey from feed suppliers, and lower priced plastic caging made from companies such as Animal Plastics. That takes the costly expense out of custom built caging... Safety is a fairly easy aspect, as long as you learn from the right sources.

The everglades...bs, straight up. If it were being just giants released due to that, then how are there Lemurs, Komodo Dragon, Nile Monitor, Crocodile monitor, various paradise birds, and a large other list of species THRIVING in the everglades? Even various species of theraphosids, and plants have been thriving for decades. Still going to blame that "inexperienced" keeper? Or how about the destruction of all those homes, zoological institutions, rehab centers, and various other facilities during the hurricanes? Ever think hurricanes had something to do with it? What about Green Iguana? Green Iguana have been documented in the southern part of Florida since the 1920's, if not earlier. Long before majority of the exotic pet trade really boomed.

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Your whole post is case and point of the attitude I am talking about, keep passing the buck. So burm populations in the everglade are the sole result of hurricanes, sure they are. I see you position and it is pointless to go back and forth with you as it is clear you don't see your role in the negative impact giants are having on this hobby as a whole.

Are burms in the Everglades the cause of hurricanes? Yes.

Are they also the cause of irresponsible owners? Yes.

Pet shops don't offer care sheets. People buy them without knowing anything about them and don't think to do research after they get them. Pet stores won't always take them back, so they give them to someone else or dump them.

Have I ever heard of someone who's been keeping snakes for years dump an animal in the wild? No. It's mostly people who have no idea what the hell they're getting into.

As Todd Hardwick once said

"this weeks hot pet is next weeks catch of the week"




Or something along those lines...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chuck

Your whole post is case and point of the attitude I am talking about, keep passing the buck. So burm populations in the everglade are the sole result of hurricanes, sure they are. I see you position and it is pointless to go back and forth with you as it is clear you don't see your role in the negative impact giants are having on this hobby as a whole.

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My role in the negative impact of giants? Buddy, you can thank your entire hobby, and the animals you own, for breeders like me. Kara, Kevin, and Andy at NERD...giant breeders, with a similar emphasis on them. Bob Clark, and Mike Wilbanks, same. Brian of BHB. Dave and Tracy Barker. Jay Vella. ALL giant breeders. ALL have revolutionized the way the market is viewed on. ALL have contributed to the hobby vastly, and brought great amounts of information to keepers, both small and large. All of them you can thank for your Blood and Ball market as well. As I said...we are not there to patrol what a keeper can and cannot keep. That is their decision alone. We do not know what they can keep, what they cannot. What their monetary gain is yearly, monthly, weekly. We do not know what they are capable of keeping, simply put. This is their decision. We are there to supply the hobby with the highest quality animals we can produce, and sound information from our experience so other keepers can have success with their animals. As Bob has said on the forums before-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob Clark

My job is to sell snakes not to be these guy's mommy. I think we've been looking more like retic Nazis lately and I don't think its good for business. There are precautions that should be taken when keeping certain kinds of animals and not every type of pet is suitable for every person. Keeping a retic certainly isn't rocket science and most people can do it. Let's focus on the positive side of keeping snakes.

I want to encourage and help these people not discourage them. All snake owners should be careful and exercise good judgement. Keeping retics is not difficult. Anyone with the right information and the will to do it will be successful.

I'm not going to tell these people to wear their seatbelts, put on a sweater when its cold or not to buy a retic. Its not our job. My job is to sell snakes..

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If you'd like that link, to where Bob had said that, PM me. I am not hotlinking to another forum.

Now what, in your experience with giants, lends you to give the information you do? Your opinion is fairly strong, for having no sound information to back it up, other than speculations from what you see. Tell me...who is easiest to blame for thriving invasive species? The gov't? The hurricanes? Or keepers who are looked down upon for keeping these animals, that are so feared by the general public due to their ill ignorance towards them? Iguana, Gov'ts fault. Theraphosids...fruit shipments, destroyed facilities and zoological institutions. How many people do you actually think release giants each year? Thats basically claiming that if I released 3 Burms in Toledo...one on each end..that they would find eachother and breed. Highly unlikely, if not, impossible....

This is the stuff I'm talking about. No information given out by shop, and (s)he didn't do any research before purchasing.

At least (s)he did some research after getting it.

retics are by far the "best" giants to keep IMHO and are by far the most interesting. I went from a corn snakes to ball pythons and then to a retic on my 14th birthday and am glad I made that bold leap. I now have 5 giants that are babies now after I recently sold my big girl. It is true that you must be ready and that they are a handful. and on the topic of intelligence, retics are extremley intelligent. my big figure out how to open doors by looping up over the knob and using her weight to pull the door open while falling to the ground.