Freakin' Rodents.......

One of my females had her first litter Friday morning. I didn't get a good look but I'm assuming there were about 10 babies. Throughout Friday, and over the weekend, I would continually see one of two new dead babies that she tossed out of the nest. Needless to say, slowly and gradually all the babies are now dead. She, along with the other female and the male, seemed to be doing a great job mothering the babies. But it just seemed like every so often a baby got buried under the bedding, or there would simply be a dead baby on the outskirts of the nest...

I feed Mazuri lab block. They have plenty of room, a wheel, things to chew.

Any thoughts? Do you think that was more or less do to this being her first litter? Or do you think there are other issues at hand?


Thanks!

Do you strictly feed Mazuri? If so I would try to give them a good bird seed mixture also, maybe even some cheerios. I found the ASF rats need more than just the rodent food.

i had the same thing last week a litter of about 12 got eaten and it was also the first for her.

Maybe it's just a "first litter" issue then...

Like I said, the colony seemed like they took care of the babies well... It just so happens that every few hours I would see another one of two babies that looked dead and were kicked out of the nest.

can't offer much help on this. Simply because I haven't seen it in my colonies.

No need to feed anything but the mazuri 6f that you are already feeding. How old were they when you got them? what is your setup? Just list all your details and I am sure we can find the problem.


Mike

They're in a 58qt tub like I've seen many people keep them in. I feed Mazuri lab block and sometimes(rarely) supplement with some hamster seed food. They have a metal wheel which they use CONSTANTLY. They have a PVC U-pipe in the tub that they use for chewing and hiding. I used to keep a tupperware bowl up-side down for a hide but once the babies were born, they actually flipped the bowl and dragged it to a corner and never used it again. And the bedding is pine pellets with a mix of cypress.

The same female looks VERY pregnant already!! I don't know if this is because she just had her litter last Friday or if she actually is preggo again...

cypress???? don't know if it has anything to do with this particular problem, but early on I was told that cypress was a big no-no with rodents. Way too much moisture retention....

Bill!!! It's great to see you back around these parts LOL.

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

Do you strictly feed Mazuri? If so I would try to give them a good bird seed mixture also, maybe even some cheerios. I found the ASF rats need more than just the rodent food.

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Personally I also include wild bird seed mix in my ASF feed. They get some cat kibble, wild bird seed mix, a bit of hog chow, small dry cereals and the occasional treat of fresh greens. Seems to work fine for my bunch. :)

If this colony has just started producing young than sometimes you'll see issues like this. Just watch them closely to see if they settle in and the litter losses stop. If not, and you believe they have developed a nasty habit of destroying litter then I'd personally feed them all off and start over. Do doublecheck that you don't have another adult male in there. Sometimes a male will appear female and get accidentally placed into a breeding group. Multiple males can destroy litters and fight for breeding rights so check to make sure you don't have a "surprise" extra male in there.

You also might want to give them more or bigger hiding areas (even things like old kleenex boxes, etc. work well). It may be a dominance or space issue between the breeding females so sometimes giving them more room to hide their litters alleviates issues amongst the females who seem to have a very definiate dominance/pecking order.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Bill!!! It's great to see you back around these parts LOL.

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Hi Joanna!!! Been gone for awhile and I hardly recognise anyone. LOL

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

Hi Joanna!!! Been gone for awhile and I hardly recognise anyone. LOL

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The place has really grown in leaps and bounds this past year! Well glad to see you back. Pull up a chair and stick around will ya. :)

I definitely plan on changing from the cypress/wood shaving/pine pellet combo I was using for the bedding to something else... What about just straight pine shavings??

I think the colony is fairly comfortable with one another. They've been together since a young age. They always sleep with/ontop of one another. They never use the hides they have. They run on the wheel alot. I really don't think the members of the colony have any issues with one another. I know I'm new to ASFs but they get along quite well. They all take turns mothering the babies which they appear to do very well, but it just seems like they don't fully understand how to mother the babies the entire duration... If that makes sense...

Also, I started supplementing their lab block with bird seed mix.

I quit using bird seed. I found it was too fatty and made their fur very greasy and yellow. It's just a treat now, but by no means do I give it very often. I'd rather give cheerios as a treat.

Wow. for the first time EVER today I experienced what the OP is talking about. I had a group that first produced on 10/25 have their second litter either last night or earlier today.... and tonight, the tank is a horror show. baby parts eaten and spread all over the place. No babies left alive. I have no idea what caused this. As I stated, it was the second litter (first litter grew up and was weaned just fine). The only change I can think of that has occured recently is in Jacksonville the temps have been low the last few nights.... and the rat room dropped as low as 60 degrees. Could it possibly be the temperature? really hard to explain because I have had a few other litters born in the last two days, and they are all doing fine.

Ive been loosing a few here & there not a big proplem with the numbers im turning out,but what really got me mad is my weaning cage went crazy last week & alot got killed I think the sub adult males beat up on all the younger ones in the cage fed all the dead & small weans off going to keep them by size know & see what happens.

What kind of bedding do you all use? Pine? Pine pellets? Others??

After all my analysis and advice-taking, I really think the biggest issue for me is that she is a first-time mother. I realize some people have great success with their first-time mothers, but I really don't know what else it would be.

The food is what most use. The environment is good. They have security. I don't mess with them often at all. The ambient temperature is about 70.

So all I can determine is that it's first-time mother syndrome, or the substrate....

We'll see... she's going to pop soon again!

Maybe they are revolting, mine made the horor show last week, then the OP and now Mcavana.

One of my females is looking like she is about to explode also, so this will be her second litter. Hopefully she dont get hungry again cause my snakes can always be hungry for more.

Walmart pine big bag. They do what they do,get more trios going so you can keep producing they grow slow.

I get huge bags of shredded pine from local feed store. It is generally used for horses.... but is kiln dried so fine to use on the ratties.

I wonder about the temp angle. 70 deg F might be on the bottom end for these guys as everything I read seems to indicate they thrive at warm temps. I recently had a first litter of 17 and lost 5 of them the first night when a cold front came in and my rodent room temperatures dipped. I'm going to insulate better and try to keep it in the upper 70's lower 80's. Maybe the moms stop making milk when it gets cool? Mine weren’t eaten they where just dead in the bottom of the nest.

With all the ASF rats the main reasons for litter losses were temp, diet and water. If they don't have a varied diet, they will eat their babies. If they run out of water or the system gets clogged, they kill the babies. The main problem with temps I had was the lack of production, I had to keep them 70 degrees or warmer to keep up production.

Hm... maybe I'll put one of my leftover UTHs under the tub to keep things cozy...

I don't breed ASF's, but I do breed rats/mice on a large commercial scale. It is extremely common for first time moms to kill her litter. Sometimes they will go through two litters before they have a successful litter. One big thing with mom rats/mice is they need a constant water and food supply. They also need to feel comfortable and safe. I separate my moms from the breeders when they are pregnant, I would suggest trying this. Temperature, food and water are the main causes for crashes in a colony. Even just a day or two without water can be very detrimental to your colonies. Nursing moms need more attention and care than the rest of the colony. They are expending all of there energy and resources to take care of 10+ babies. Feeding a higher protein and fat diet can help. I can get protein and fat ratios for you. As for bedding I use a mixture of pine pellets and recycled paper insulation "carefresh". The paper used for house insulation is the same as carefresh, but cheaper and a finer ground product. Nothing like buying 50lb bags for the price of a 5lb bag of carefresh. It works great and last until the weekly cleanings. The order has been cut down greatly with this mixture. It sounds like your general setup is good. What is the ratio of male to female in your cage? Do you give your females a chance to recuperate after the babies are weaned, if not I would suggest to do so. A word of caution with the wheel. I had a pet rat rip its tail off in a metal wheel. I would suggest the wodent wheel. It is all plastic, with no danger of harming your rats. Any questions just ask. Good luck.:gj:

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Originally Posted by wishexotics

I don't breed ASF's, but I do breed rats/mice on a large commercial scale. It is extremely common for first time moms to kill her litter. Sometimes they will go through two litters before they have a successful litter. One big thing with mom rats/mice is they need a constant water and food supply. They also need to feel comfortable and safe. I separate my moms from the breeders when they are pregnant, I would suggest trying this. Temperature, food and water are the main causes for crashes in a colony. Even just a day or two without water can be very detrimental to your colonies. Nursing moms need more attention and care than the rest of the colony. They are expending all of there energy and resources to take care of 10+ babies. Feeding a higher protein and fat diet can help. I can get protein and fat ratios for you. As for bedding I use a mixture of pine pellets and recycled paper insulation "carefresh". The paper used for house insulation is the same as carefresh, but cheaper and a finer ground product. Nothing like buying 50lb bags for the price of a 5lb bag of carefresh. It works great and last until the weekly cleanings. The order has been cut down greatly with this mixture. It sounds like your general setup is good. What is the ratio of male to female in your cage? Do you give your females a chance to recuperate after the babies are weaned, if not I would suggest to do so. A word of caution with the wheel. I had a pet rat rip its tail off in a metal wheel. I would suggest the wodent wheel. It is all plastic, with no danger of harming your rats. Any questions just ask. Good luck.:gj:

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We are not talking about normal rats or mice. The things you do for normal rats would NOT work for ASF's. Please see the ASF caresheet for more info. http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=70828

With ASF's, what you are suggesting here would end in a total blood bath! Please read up on the species before making suggestions!

There is no need for the harsh reply. I do understand ASFS are 'different' from normal rats/mice. I still feel like my suggestions are worth the time to explore. Since ASFS are still "new" to the trade there is still a lot of learning being done on keeping and breeding them. As for the idea of seperation, I never said it would work for these rats. It is just something that works for my colonies. Also all rats and mice are social creatures doing better in colonies. They will all work as a community to help raise young. So your idea of them being nothing alike is a false statement. They are all similar in many ways. They are thought to be the evolutionary link between the true mice and the true rat having characteristics of both. If this statement is true then they are more closely related than you believe. Evolution is an amazing thin. In the world animal breeding there is always room for improvement and being inventive in trying new ideas. I never said I was an expert on breeding or keeping ASFS. I was merely just giving my two cents on general husbandry of rodents. Some of my ideas may or may not work. Best of luck with ASFS! :gj:

They are as easy as normal rats just don't mix males.ive had mine for 7 or 8 months no proplems.mice are the proplem for me!

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Originally Posted by wishexotics

There is no need for the harsh reply. I do understand ASFS are 'different' from normal rats/mice. I still feel like my suggestions are worth the time to explore. Since ASFS are still "new" to the trade there is still a lot of learning being done on keeping and breeding them. In the world animal breeding there is always room for improvement and being inventive in trying new ideas. I never said I was an expert on breeding or keeping ASFS. I was merely just giving my two cents on general husbandry of rodents. Some of my ideas may or may not work. Best of luck with ASFS! :gj:

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ASF rats have been around for awhile now. Many of people have been breeding them and experimenting with it. Seperating females from there groups is the worst thing you can do. When you reintroduce them to the "group", they will KILL her. Everything you know about mice and rats do not apply to these animals.

By the way, what do you consider to be a "commercial scale?"

THERE ARE TO MANY EXPERTS ON HERE MOST DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.RATS ARE RATS THEY BREED THE SAME DIFFERENT LINES ACT DIFFERENTLY SOME AGGRESSIVE SOME NOT.SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE EXPERTS ON ASFs HAVE A FEW IN A TEN GALLON TANK & THEY ARE EXPERTS.DANG IM STILL LEARNING MYSELF ABOUT EVERYTHING.& IVE PRODUCED A FEW HUNDRED,& THE GUY I GOT MINE FROM HAS 1000's SO I TALK TO HIM ABOUT ADVICE.

MICE(SUCK) ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT RATS ARE RATS I SEE NO DIFFERENCE FROM MY RATS TO ASF's EXCEPT FOR SWAPPING OUT MALES & SEPERATING FEMALES,MALES ALWAYS STAY IN THE COLONY,STAY TOGETHER TILL DEATH,BUT HAVE CHANGED AROUND A FEW FEMALES & HAVE NOT HAD A PROPLEM SO FAR.

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

ASF rats have been around for awhile now. Many of people have been breeding them and experimenting with it. Seperating females from there groups is the worst thing you can do. When you reintroduce them to the "group", they will KILL her. Everything you know about mice and rats do not apply to these animals.

By the way, what do you consider to be a "commercial scale?"

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Well 'normal' rats/mice have been around for a long time too, but people are still learning and experimenting. I also never claimed to be an expert. I believe nobody is truly and expert as we are always learning and improving upon our lives and what we do. I understand you can't add new females to the colonies, you can't do that with mice either. It is best to start out a colony young and cull them at the same time and never add in new females or males. I know everything I know about rats/mice do not apply, but some things I know do. The common rat is a much more social and forgiving creature, as the ASFS and mice are not. They are social, but only within there own group. It is just like wolfs, they contain a dominant male and female. The rest of the group is comprised of their offspring. As the offspring grow and mature some will go off and create new packs some will not. I am not trying to start a fight here, I am only trying to share my knowledge and experience with others. If it helps I am happy for that, and if not I hope some people are still able to learn and apply what I have to say to there needs.

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Originally Posted by greghall

THERE ARE TO MANY EXPERTS ON HERE MOST DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.RATS ARE RATS THEY BREED THE SAME DIFFERENT LINES ACT DIFFERENTLY SOME AGGRESSIVE SOME NOT.SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE EXPERTS ON ASFs HAVE A FEW IN A TEN GALLON TANK & THEY ARE EXPERTS.DANG IM STILL LEARNING MYSELF ABOUT EVERYTHING.& IVE PRODUCED A FEW HUNDRED,& THE GUY I GOT MINE FROM HAS 1000's SO I TALK TO HIM ABOUT ADVICE.

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Who is that directed at?

just in general ;)no offense but there are alot of advice people give on this site when they have no clue, they have one or two ball pythons,or a few rats & they are "experts" in breeding giving advice & so on.some of the stuff I read makes me laugh. Im not a expert by no means what works for me may not work for somebody else.

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Originally Posted by greghall

just in general ;)no offense but there are alot of advice people give on this site when they have no clue, they have one or two ball pythons,or a few rats & they are "experts" in breeding giving advice & so on.some of the stuff I read makes me laugh. Im not a expert by no means what works for me may not work for somebody else.

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so who are you talking about in this thread???

NOBODY ON THIS THREAD JUST IN GENERAL,I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE ON HERE ALL THE TIME IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS THREAD,JUST THE GERBIL THREAD GOT ME A LITTLE OFF(SEE IT IN FEEDERS)JUST MAKES ME LAUGH A LITTLE.DON'T WANT TO GET OFF TOPIC YOU GUYS HAVE YOUR WAY I HAVE MINE AS I READ MORE ON ASF's ARE REALLY DIFFERENT MY LINE IS REAL TAME & HARDLY EVER FIGHT OR CANNIBLIZE EACH OTHER.IT HELPS TO SHARE INFORMATION BUT IF YOU DON'T RAISE IN LARGE NUMBERS HOW DO YOU KNOW? I DON'T REALLY KNOW IM STILL LEARNING THEIR HABITS ONLY ON MY SECOND GENERATION SO I READ ALL THIS STUFF TO & TAKE IN ALL THE OPINIONS THATS ALL.TRY TO HELP PEOPLE WITH MY SUCESS & LEARN ALSO FROM MY FAILURES.

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Originally Posted by greghall

BUT IF YOU DON'T RAISE IN LARGE NUMBERS HOW DO YOU KNOW?

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Out of your statements, this is what I have a problem with. Do you know how many I own or have owned? It's a big assumption to think you do. I guarantee I've never kept "a few in aquariums". Have a nice day. :gj:

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Originally Posted by greghall

NOBODY ON THIS THREAD JUST IN GENERAL,I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE ON HERE ALL THE TIME IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS THREAD,JUST THE GERBIL THREAD GOT ME A LITTLE OFF(SEE IT IN FEEDERS)JUST MAKES ME LAUGH A LITTLE.DON'T WANT TO GET OFF TOPIC YOU GUYS HAVE YOUR WAY I HAVE MINE AS I READ MORE ON ASF's ARE REALLY DIFFERENT MY LINE IS REAL TAME & HARDLY EVER FIGHT OR CANNIBLIZE EACH OTHER.IT HELPS TO SHARE INFORMATION BUT IF YOU DON'T RAISE IN LARGE NUMBERS HOW DO YOU KNOW? I DON'T REALLY KNOW IM STILL LEARNING THEIR HABITS ONLY ON MY SECOND GENERATION SO I READ ALL THIS STUFF TO & TAKE IN ALL THE OPINIONS THATS ALL.TRY TO HELP PEOPLE WITH MY SUCESS & LEARN ALSO FROM MY FAILURES.

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Someone needs a chill pill. We're all here to learn, and teach others to help avoid problems we've seen, read or experienced. Collective knowledge people! Build upon it!. :)

ASF's have been around for a while, and there are certain truths that are very easy to see when having the animals for a short amount of time.

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They will all work as a community to help raise young. So your idea of them being nothing alike is a false statement. They are all similar in many ways. They are thought to be the evolutionary link between the true mice and the true rat having characteristics of both. If this statement is true then they are more closely related than you believe. I never said I was an expert on breeding or keeping ASFS. I was merely just giving my two cents on general husbandry of rodents. Some of my ideas may or may not work. Best of luck with ASFS!

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This is all good, but like Mike pointed out (and I thought this too) it seemed like you assumed this thread was about domestic rats, because your advice was very good for domestic rats. :gj:

Behaviors of ASF's in regards to their groups is pretty steadfast and hard to break up or reintroduce new animals to, especially once the females have given birth.

I have not taken the time to give females a break from a litter to clear their system of hormones to see if it is possible to introduce any new animals to an already established colony, but it seems like it should work (in theory).

Males can sometimes be taken from a colony and put back into the gen pop of males, or given to new young females. I've done it to a few of my males, and put them back in gen pop, the results were pretty split. Some were aggressors, and some didn't care at all. They would often jump on the wheel after a small fight, I believe the physical exercise gets them out of the "red zone" from a fight or stress.

Females, will attack and kill any new animal while they have young. I do not know if this applies after they hit menopause while still in a group.

I have not tried to add any very young animals, but it also seems (from what I read) they will take the animal if the scent of their litter is on the new animal. This has been done with mice given to ASF's and nursed to an adult size and lived in harmony. :)


I have introduced virgin adults just fine when people say it can't be done, and I have also honestly not experienced ANY sort of aggression from my animals, or cannibalism. I have also been using plastic tubs the entire time, and none (including domestic rats) have ever chewed my tubs. I remember people telling me in the most enthusiastic ways that they would all escape!

Something is working in my colony. Something is working in others colonies. We are trying to build up from a basis of knowledge that doesn't need ego's and hurt feelings stuffing it up.

Good job littleindiangirl for getting us back on track! :salute:

Verry well written connie.

I never have claimed to know it all. I have been corrected on MANY ocasions.

I have said it before and I will say it again. ASF's are a lot like gremlins, they are cute, and soft, and make the perfect feeder colonies... AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW THE BASIC RULES!

One of the most basic rules is that you don't seperate the pregnant moms. The fathers are excellent dads, and the back to back breeding is their natural way of life. The females will get bigger and stronger with every back to back litter. Does it mean it is impossible to do? No. Does it mean it shouldn't be attempted? IMHO absolutely. Learn from my experiences.

One of the first mistakes I made in the beginning was pulling out the male.... I took a male out of a 1.3 group and later reintroduced him. All seemed fine at first.... the next morning he was litterally ripped into about 4 pieces, and halfway eaten. :O

Another mistake I made in the beginning was with another 1.3 group. the females weren't pregnant with their first litters yet, and the male died unexpectedly. I threw a new male in with them. Again, everything looked fine at first. The next morning there was blood everywhere and he had a serious limp. They had litterally eaten off his scrotum. :O

When I see someone suggesting things that I have unfortunately learned first hand that you should never do, I am very quick to correct them. I am sorry to offend, but because of these out of the ordinary specific rules with ASF's, you really should learn about them before giving general rodent advice to an ASF question.

Greg,

1.) loose the caps.
2.) what would make you assume that some of the people you are talking to do not produce large numbers?

Do your plastic tubs have any edges they can get a hold of? I've been using the cement mixing tubs which are smooth and had no problem. Maybe it's when keepers use sweater boxes with indentions in the bottom that they chew out. I do keep wood blocks in the tubs and they chew the heck out of them.

As far as low temp being a possible cause of baby death it sounds like that isn't proven. Is it generally agreed that they don't breed well under 70 deg F? My babies could have died from any number of reasons but since they didn't have any marks I was thinking too cool for newborns. I wonder if I hadn't found them when I did if they would have been eaten later. In some cases it might be hard to be sure if the parents killed them or just recycled them after they are dead.

I would think they would need a pretty constant milk supply as newborns so might be susceptible to any stress that interrupts that and with a first time mom there might also be timing issues with the start of milk production. Also, coming from warm areas the parents might not be as good at keeping babies warm as cooler temp rodents.

Bill & Mike was'nt talking about you or anybody on this post sorry you guys took it the wrong way no offense ment,sorry about the caps forget to turn off the lock:).

No offence taken. Thank you.

Please share whatever you have learned. We ALL still have lots to learn about these little devil dogs!

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Do your plastic tubs have any edges they can get a hold of? I've been using the cement mixing tubs which are smooth and had no problem. Maybe it's when keepers use sweater boxes with indentions in the bottom that they chew out. I do keep wood blocks in the tubs and they chew the heck out of them.

As far as low temp being a possible cause of baby death it sounds like that isn't proven. Is it generally agreed that they don't breed well under 70 deg F? My babies could have died from any number of reasons but since they didn't have any marks I was thinking too cool for newborns. I wonder if I hadn't found them when I did if they would have been eaten later. In some cases it might be hard to be sure if the parents killed them or just recycled them after they are dead.

I would think they would need a pretty constant milk supply as newborns so might be susceptible to any stress that interrupts that and with a first time mom there might also be timing issues with the start of milk production. Also, coming from warm areas the parents might not be as good at keeping babies warm as cooler temp rodents.

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I have heard that ASF's do terrible under 70, whereas domestic rats do very well.

It's like some have said, and I have experienced as well, ASF's bump up during summer production (may be linked to their population growths during flooding season when food is plentiful and their populations sky rocket in a short amount of time), and domestic rats are the best producers during the cooler months.

Anywho, Randy, I keep my ASF's in 66 qt and 54 qt sterilite tubs.

The breeders all get a wheel, blocks and nesting material. I used to give seeds, but it's a very rare treat now. Their fur tended to get extra oily and yellow, extra smelly pee.

The grow up tubs, this recent group of males I have not given a wheel to, and they do fine. Females still have it.

I really like experimenting different techniques for raising these guys. I think they are great little buggers and unfortunately not very adaptable once they are set in their ways, but they don't at all NEED one way to live.

I do know give them space, things to chew and a complete diet that the babies have access to once they have strength to get out of the nest. :)

Did your seeds include sunflower? Might have been the oil rather than convection sunflower type. Looks like the bird seed sellers will put whatever is cheapest in the mix (including sorghum bred to taste bad to birds).

The last bag I got had more sunflower than previous so I'll have to keep an eye on that. It's mainly the millet they seem to like and that I was told helps them grow faster. I haven't experimented without it to confirm that but they do get excited and run up when I give them their little scoop of seeds every morning.

So do those Sterilite tubs have indentions and edges in or are they smooth?

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Did your seeds include sunflower? Might have been the oil rather than convection sunflower type. Looks like the bird seed sellers will put whatever is cheapest in the mix (including sorghum bred to taste bad to birds).

The last bag I got had more sunflower than previous so I'll have to keep an eye on that. It's mainly the millet they seem to like and that I was told helps them grow faster. I haven't experimented without it to confirm that but they do get excited and run up when I give them their little scoop of seeds every morning.

So do those Sterilite tubs have indentions and edges in or are they smooth?

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I noticed that with my seed mixtures also. Last time I purchased seed I bought just millet from the local Seed store. :salute:

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Did your seeds include sunflower? Might have been the oil rather than convection sunflower type. Looks like the bird seed sellers will put whatever is cheapest in the mix (including sorghum bred to taste bad to birds).

The last bag I got had more sunflower than previous so I'll have to keep an eye on that. It's mainly the millet they seem to like and that I was told helps them grow faster. I haven't experimented without it to confirm that but they do get excited and run up when I give them their little scoop of seeds every morning.

So do those Sterilite tubs have indentions and edges in or are they smooth?

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It seemed like it was heavy on millet, but it did have sunflower seeds as well. I'll have to go look at it again, but yes, it was pretty fatty stuff. :P

The 66 qt's do have a ridge on the bottom, I have a picture somewhere.... Oh duh! I have my tubs up in a DIY in the ASF forum, stickied. But yes, they really can't get to any ridges. Or really hang out and chew the lid either. :P
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=71026

Is it possible for a female ASF to have very small nipples? The female who lost all of her babies last week has almost no nipple. She has almost no bare spot on her underbelly where her nips are.... Or do ASF females typically just have smaller nipples???

She's about ready to pop again, so I'm just trying to fix any issues that caused the lost litter last week...

Well, I've never looked, but I think you shouldn't worry so much and just let her have another try. ;)

Sounds like a plan!

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Originally Posted by Mitch21

Is it possible for a female ASF to have very small nipples? The female who lost all of her babies last week has almost no nipple. She has almost no bare spot on her underbelly where her nips are.... Or do ASF females typically just have smaller nipples???

She's about ready to pop again, so I'm just trying to fix any issues that caused the lost litter last week...

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uhhhh.... are we talking dimes or soft balls???

lol sorry couldn't resist.

Hi Mitch,
Did your female have new babies yet? Any updates on how this one went?
I got my first prego and I'm getting nervous... My breeder is a pet, so I'm going to freak out if she turns out to be Hannibal Lecter!

Yea crazy story actually... The first litter didn't work out so well. There were about 10 babies, all which died within two days. Then, the crazy part is that the same female delivered a 12 baby litter SIX DAYS LATER!! Those babies are 2 weeks and 1 day old today. One died but it seems the colony took good care of them.

The female is pregnant again and so is the other female who originally was too small. So within the next week, I'm expecting about 30+ babies!