Switching to non-rodents?

I am starting a new job right now and they do not want to have any cross contamination (it is at a rodent lab) with rodents. So I am wondering if there is a non rodent food that is good for a male ball python a little less then four feet long. He is a little too small for rabbits and I am thinking of chicks. If I do feed chicks, would he need any extra nutrients? Anyone have any luck with this?

IMHO I think that mice are the only way to go... I have no clue about chicks but I do have one thing to say. There are sausages... snake sausages.. Please don't buy them. They are in no way natural at all as they are made from beef, Beef that is not even quality enough for humans.

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Originally Posted by MuscaDomestica

I am starting a new job right now and they do not want to have any cross contamination (it is at a rodent lab) with rodents. So I am wondering if there is a non rodent food that is good for a male ball python a little less then four feet long. He is a little too small for rabbits and I am thinking of chicks. If I do feed chicks, would he need any extra nutrients? Anyone have any luck with this?

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Rabbits and chicks are WAY too big for ball pythons. The three choices you have to pick from are: Mice, Rats, and ASF rats.

What do you mean by cross-cotamination? What I mean is How is feeding your bp going to contaminate their rodents?

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Originally Posted by Jyson

chicks are WAY too big for ball pythons.

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What kind of chicks are you thinking of? Newly hatched chicken or quail chicks would be edible by a 4ft BP. If anything I'd think they'd be small. I don't know how they compare in regard to nutrition, but as far as size goes they're not too big.

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Originally Posted by simplechamp

What kind of chicks are you thinking of? Newly hatched chicken or quail chicks would be edible by a 4ft BP. If anything I'd think they'd be small. I don't know how they compare in regard to nutrition, but as far as size goes they're not too big.

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I was thinking of my own. Some of the baby chickens I bred last year were massive. And usually baby chicks at local feed store are usually rather large as well even for an adult bp.

Well, chickens seem to have more fat and less protein, as they age, than do mice and rats: http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp.

I have heard (anecdotal evidence) that chicks tend to give snakes pretty awful poo's :P

I too am pretty curious about cross contamination at work. You feed your snakes at home, right?

You can feed baby rabbits -- but there is a good chance that they will get stuck on baby rabbits so be sure you have a nice steady supply (and rabbits I believe are also rodents are they not?)

Chicks will work as well -- tho I wouldn't recommend - as with rabbit above there is a good chance that is all they will eat -- plus- as someone mentioned the poo stench is awful.

My suggestion -- either see if f/t would be concern for cross contamination -- or don't tell them.

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Originally Posted by Jyson

I was thinking of my own. Some of the baby chickens I bred last year were massive. And usually baby chicks at local feed store are usually rather large as well even for an adult bp.

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Must be a different breed from any of the ones I've seen then. The ones I'm familiar with are the right size, if not too small. Especially since the fluffy down feathers make them look a little bigger than their actual body size. I'm not a poultry expert by any means, but there must be a variety of sizes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Chikies_17apr06.jpg

Based on their size relative to a standard sheet of newspaper I don't see how those would be too big for an adult BP

Stick with rodents, it is what they eat. They may oppurtunistically feed on other prey at times but not as staples or regular food.

I never understand why people need to complicate things when feeding their rodent eating snakes.

Feed what they are supposed to eat.

If you are worried about contamination, then follow universal precautions. And if you only have one BP then that should not be hard.

Bruce

I think the burning question everyone has is this: Is your employer asking and/or requiring you to avoid all other rodent contact, or is this something you thought of doing?

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Originally Posted by Tosha_Mc

You can feed baby rabbits -- but there is a good chance that they will get stuck on baby rabbits so be sure you have a nice steady supply (and rabbits I believe are also rodents are they not?)

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Rabbits are actually NOT rodents. They're in a small family called Lagamorphs. This includes (pretty sure) hyraxes and pikas.

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Originally Posted by simplechamp

I think the burning question everyone has is this: Is your employer asking and/or requiring you to avoid all other rodent contact, or is this something you thought of doing?

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Well it is the last road block to the job and this is the biggest stumbling point. It is an LTE position so I can give my Ball Python to a friend for the next 6 months or so. They are really concerned over cross contamination because some of the mice do not have immune systems and one bacterium could screw everything up. Still I think it is a little overboard to basically not allow any rodents in my house, but I really need this job and it will be good experience for other labs.

Hi,

So does this mean they will refuse to employ anyone with wild rodents in their house? :weirdface

Enforcing quarantine and disinfectant procedures I can get - but refusing to employ people?

Are there any pathogens that can jump the species barrier between cats, dogs etc and rodents?


dr del

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

Rabbits are actually NOT rodents. They're in a small family called Lagamorphs. This includes (pretty sure) hyraxes and pikas.

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Rabbits and pikas are, of course, Lagomorphs, but hyraxes (dassies) are a totally different group of afrotherian mammals related to elephants, and are included in the family Procaviidae. Despite their external aspect they are not even remotely related to rodents.

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Originally Posted by MuscaDomestica

Well it is the last road block to the job and this is the biggest stumbling point. It is an LTE position so I can give my Ball Python to a friend for the next 6 months or so. They are really concerned over cross contamination because some of the mice do not have immune systems and one bacterium could screw everything up. Still I think it is a little overboard to basically not allow any rodents in my house, but I really need this job and it will be good experience for other labs.

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Are they limiting you to not using mice and rats only, or what other species are they not allowing?

African soft furred FT should be something to think about. ;)

I myself work with nude mice for work (these mice do not have an immune system). Anyways I have not had any issues with contaminating as I have to wear gloves, sleaves, gown, hair net, face mask, and work in a hood when handling animals. In the end as long as you use sterile technique everything should be fine. Meticulously using chlorohexedine solutions before handling and all the PPE should keep the work mice safe.

Maybe the best bet for you might be to feed your bp once a week on a weekend when you don't work. Go with F/T so that the only time you DO handle rodents is on that day.

i'd stick to rats. they're cheap and readily available. that was a big selling point in getting a snake to me. i had lizards and i was tired of finding food for them every single day. btw, i'm not lazy i just have kids to wrangle.:)

You might try gerbils, hamsters, or buying very young rabbits, from dwarf species.
I watched a show where they were talking about finding out how long it takes a snake to digest food in comparison to a human and they force fed a piece of steak to the snake.
And then checked it weight and stool and stomach gases. It was on the history channel.

You may also look into button quail, finch, canary or other small bird babies. You may have to breed your own.. and do F/T feeding. But its worth a shot for your job and snake.

Carol

There are online dealers that sell frozen chicks and stuff.

I have successfully fed day-old chicks to yearling ball pythons many years ago. They can handle them with no problem at all. So, if you need to switch, chicks would be an acceptable alternative--you may need to do a bit of work to get the python to accept them. At the time, one of my pythons took the chick on the first try, and the other did not.

Chicken chicks grow VERY fast, so you may want to kill and freeze any that aren't eaten immediately. Quail chicks may be a good choice to give you more time to work with, as they don't grow nearly as large. If you can get your snake to take them, and then switch to frozen/thawed, you shouldn't have any problems ordering them in bulk online. If you're concerned about nutrition, dust a little calcium on them. For the most part, though, they will provide complete nutrition--the droppings may be looser and stinkier on a bird diet.

The chicks are probably your best option for avoiding cross-contamination. You may want to take the added precaution of sterilizing anything in your home that may have come in contact with a rat, as mycoplasma is a pretty pervasive organism.

just stay w/ rats. they're cheap and a snake isn't going to give a crap about the variety of prey it's fed.

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Originally Posted by MuscaDomestica

Well it is the last road block to the job and this is the biggest stumbling point. It is an LTE position so I can give my Ball Python to a friend for the next 6 months or so. They are really concerned over cross contamination because some of the mice do not have immune systems and one bacterium could screw everything up. Still I think it is a little overboard to basically not allow any rodents in my house, but I really need this job and it will be good experience for other labs.

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It's not unusual for an employer to make these sorts of rules. Years ago I worked in a turkey hatchery and we were required under our employee contract to keep no birds in our homes or to visit/handle birds in sanctuaries, etc. Even though we took precautions like having only certain shoes for work, shoe dips at every door and so forth this restriction was understand and accepted if you wanted to work there.

All I can suggest is that you either place the snake elsewhere since this is a short term job or consider asking them if they will supply you with feeder rodents for your snakes needs from their own breeding supply. Since you likely only need one feeder rodent per week they may will be able to accommodate you this way. I personally wouldn't get into trying chicks or messing with changing prey types since you may well get stuck with refusals and so forth that last far longer than your 6 months at this job. I wouldn't suggest you hide or lie to this employer about feeding rodents since these safeguards are there for a good reason.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

consider asking them if they will supply you with feeder rodents for your snakes needs from their own breeding supply. Since you likely only need one feeder rodent per week they may will be able to accommodate you this way.

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good idea i would try this one

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Originally Posted by python baller

just stay w/ rats. they're cheap and a snake isn't going to give a crap about the variety of prey it's fed.

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Did you even read the original post? They are trying to get a job working with lab rodents and the employer doesn't want any contact with outside rodents because of contamination risks.

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Originally Posted by simplechamp

What kind of chicks are you thinking of? Newly hatched chicken or quail chicks would be edible by a 4ft BP. If anything I'd think they'd be small. I don't know how they compare in regard to nutrition, but as far as size goes they're not too big.

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Yeah my Snake would devour some chicks that I have seen are half the size of the rats my snake eats.

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Originally Posted by simplechamp

Did you even read the original post? They are trying to get a job working with lab rodents and the employer doesn't want any contact with outside rodents because of contamination risks.

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:gj: yer cool!