Misrepresenting animals

I am sick of seeing people misrepresenting their animals and selling them to people. Photos of snakes that you just know are not what they look like in real life. Here's an excellent example. Came across this on KS today.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=644345

Then check out his website

http://www.benrenick.com/pastel_bp.html
http://www.benrenick.com/fire_bp.html

It's just ridiculous. There's no way they look like that. I just feel sorry for the poor sap who buys it expecting it to look like that.

How do you know his animals don't look like that? Ben's always been a stand up guy. I don't think those snakes look too good to be true :confuzd:

I feel sorry for people that don't know who the good guys and bad guys are. Ben is one of the good guys. I'd buy from him in a heart beat.

To me that snake looks like many of the fires I've seen.

Renick is supposed to be a great breeder, what the heck are you talking about man?

Stop being so darn skeptical, not everyone is out to stab you in the back.

I can understand the yellow looks a bit strong on the fire, but on the flip side, not all monitors are created equal and for that matter, not all cameras. It's very easy to set the wrong white balance, use yellow lighting, or have a computer display that has not been calibrated.

Ben is an upstanding guy, and I too would not hesitate to buy from him in a heart beat. His pictures of the pastel and fire's are probably the best ones he has. A fine pastel just screams neon yellow.

If you have any doubts in the future, instead of bashing a breeder on a forum he participates in, send him an email or call him. I'm sure he'd be willing to talk with you about any concerns.

Oh no he didnt :O

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Originally Posted by FIREball

Oh no he didnt :O

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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

So since you are a fire expert :rolleyes: and those are not (according to you), can you explain to me what a fire is suppose to look like and what those really are??? :confused:

Not sure what the point of your thread is (if any) but I sure hope to find out.

Ben is a good guy and I would not hesitate to buy from him.

funny thread!:8:

Truthfully I can see where the original poster is coming from. The pics of the animals do have a tad bit much of yellow overtones to them. Nothing photoshop can't fix though...

If you want to talk about misrepresenting animals... There is an ad right now on KS selling "Breeder Sized pastel females" But yet the females arent over 600 grams...

That's misrepresenting if you ask me...

Thats why an inquiry on the BOI is a must for any potential purchase with a seller who's history you are unsure of. Jumping to conclusions gets you no where fast, Ben has amazing animals and I would purchase from him in a heart beat.

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Originally Posted by JasonG

Truthfully I can see where the original poster is coming from. The pics of the animals do have a tad bit much of yellow overtones to them. Nothing photoshop can't fix though...

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i dont see where the op is comming from.no offense,but they have no clue.
there is no reason to harp on a breeder that is legit and if you think they are being dishonest then click the little backwards arrow on the top left of the screen.its that easy!

I'm not sure exactly why you felt the need to post that lol. IMO that is a really nice looking fire! Yeah there are people out there who "misrepresent" their animals but from a guy like Ben Renick I would not expect that type of thing.

Not entirely sure why you linked to his pastels either. Take it to the BOI if you have a problem with the way someone is running his/her business.

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Originally Posted by JasonG

Truthfully I can see where the original poster is coming from. The pics of the animals do have a tad bit much of yellow overtones to them. Nothing photoshop can't fix though...

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Sorry I have a hard time understanding where he is coming from, if a picture does not look like the best picture in the world, before falsie accusing someone of misrepresenting an animal on a open forum, the person should contact the breeder and do a little research.

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Originally Posted by JasonG

Truthfully I can see where the original poster is coming from. The pics of the animals do have a tad bit much of yellow overtones to them. Nothing photoshop can't fix though...

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I saw snakes that looked that yellow at the last reptile expo I went to. Can you explain how to photoshop a live animal that is being held in ones hand at an expo?

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Originally Posted by yeahyeah

I am sick of seeing people misrepresenting their animals and selling them to people. Photos of snakes that you just know are not what they look like in real life. Here's an excellent example. Came across this on KS today.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=644345

Then check out his website

http://www.benrenick.com/pastel_bp.html
http://www.benrenick.com/fire_bp.html

It's just ridiculous. There's no way they look like that. I just feel sorry for the poor sap who buys it expecting it to look like that.

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way to go, slick!


j/k.

There are a lot of people that use filters and other image enhancing software to clean up their pictures. IMO one shouldn't do anything other than crop your pictures but seems like more and more people are touching up as well. As a buyer be informed what you are looking for and looking at and you'll be fine -- don't hesitate to ask the seller for a natural sunlight picture if it makes you feel better.

BTW - I'm not saying there is any enhancement on the photos presented but just offering up a perspective.

The photos do look like the contrast has been amped up quite a bit... Although being from Ben, I'd expect the animals to be on fire regardless of what the photos portray!

You just have to know who you're working with, do your research, and if you're not satisfied with their pictures, ask for others, or find someone else to deal with.

Just my two cents.;)

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Originally Posted by ohyeahnow

I saw snakes that looked that yellow at the last reptile expo I went to. Can you explain how to photoshop a live animal that is being held in ones hand at an expo?

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ummm I can take the picture that the op is refering too and point out exactly how the yellow is over exposed on the photograph.

Nobody said anything about an animal at an expo. There is a difference between a high yellow animal and a picture that has yellow abundance being displayed.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Sorry I have a hard time understanding where he is coming from, if a picture does not look like the best picture in the world, before falsie accusing someone of misrepresenting an animal on a open forum, the person should contact the breeder and do a little research.

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It's easy to see where the op is coming from. They stated that the photo has a tad bit much of yellow in it. You can see this by the amount of yellow overtones in the shadow itself.

If the animal was that yellow the shadow wouldn't be as well in the picture. I have nothing agaisnt the breeder or anyone for that matter. Just stating that the picture does have an over exposure of yellow in it.

*edited what i wrote because I got distracted here and made a mumble mouth fool of myself.. lolol

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Originally Posted by yeahyeah

I am sick of seeing people misrepresenting their animals and selling them to people. Photos of snakes that you just know are not what they look like in real life. Here's an excellent example. Came across this on KS today.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=644345

Then check out his website

http://www.benrenick.com/pastel_bp.html
http://www.benrenick.com/fire_bp.html

It's just ridiculous. There's no way they look like that. I just feel sorry for the poor sap who buys it expecting it to look like that.

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I have a feeling that animal looks a lot better in person... the photo isn't the best and it looks like they were using a a regular light bulb for lighting, which is why everything looks so yellow. Ben's not trying to make you think the snake is yellow like that... he just needs some photography lessons... :P

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Originally Posted by FIREball

Oh no he didnt :O

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I think he just did:colbert:

HAHAHA This gave me a good laugh!:D

Its ok Yeahyeah If I hadn't have been looking for a good fire for like 3 months I would have thought the same thing! All of us make mistakes! Don't sweat it!:D

If you ever have any doubt to whether pictures have been doctored or not, just ask politely. You don't need to use the term "doctored", you could say edited or enhanced or corrected. Any reputable breeder will be polite and honest back, and if they take offense just say their animals looked so beautiful and vibrant you couldn't believe they were real. If they're still offended then maybe it's not someone you want to deal with. Most people should understand you're just doing your homework and making sure you don't get scammed. Many times you are paying for color and doctored pictures are a major offense IMO.

The yellows seem a little oversaturated to me, but that could be caused by many things besides image editing software. Lighting, camera exposure and color settings, monitor color settings all could have an effect. I don't think anyone has enough evidence to prove either way. That includes the people saying definitively that they are not doctored.

I was not saying he was not a stand up guy. I was not saying that the animals aren't amazing and probably look sick in person. I was saying that I seriously doubt those snakes look like that. Granted, it's virtually impossible to photograph a snake with realistic colors. However, those pictures look as if they were enhanced in order to make the animal look "better" as opposed to trying to accurately portray the animal. Click on the link to his website for the fires and look at the pictures. I don't believe it. Look at the picture in the upper left hand corner. That looks like it would probably be a much more accurate picture of one of his fires. If I had stole pictures from his site and then posted them on here, without saying where they were from, I think some people would be agreeing with me. Once again, I am not saying that he doesn't have amazing animals, is not a stand up guy, isn't a great guy to buy from, etc. etc. I just have beef with those pictures.

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Originally Posted by simplechamp

Lighting, camera exposure and color settings, monitor color settings all could have an effect.

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I think it's a mistake to ever expect the colors to be exactly the same as the animal in a picture. Unless the photographer is good, and both the seller's and buyer's monitors are professionally calibrated, colors will never be exactly right.

The only time I've felt snakes were misrepresented was when a group of five I bought from a small breeder weighed 1500g less than advertised total.

And I would like to apologize for starting this thread. I did not mean any harm to the aforementioned breeder. I thought about copying the pictures and then posting them here just to avoid that problem but decided to go about it the legal way. On second thought, the illegal way would have been much better.

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Originally Posted by yeahyeah

I was not saying he was not a stand up guy. I was not saying that the animals aren't amazing and probably look sick in person. I was saying that I seriously doubt those snakes look like that. Granted, it's virtually impossible to photograph a snake with realistic colors. However, those pictures look as if they were enhanced in order to make the animal look "better" as opposed to trying to accurately portray the animal. Click on the link to his website for the fires and look at the pictures. I don't believe it. Look at the picture in the upper left hand corner. That looks like it would probably be a much more accurate picture of one of his fires. If I had stole pictures from his site and then posted them on here, without saying where they were from, I think some people would be agreeing with me. Once again, I am not saying that he doesn't have amazing animals, is not a stand up guy, isn't a great guy to buy from, etc. etc. I just have beef with those pictures.

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OK, that is a picture of a fire so what? So are the rest of the pictures he has on there. As has already been stated over and over it's just a matter of poor lighting and a picture that might need a little color correction. I don't understand why you feel the need to turn something like that into a damn inquisition. Any breeder worth dealing with would gladly take another picture for someone interested in their animals if they were asked. It's not false advertising, he's not presenting the animal as something it is not, it's just a poor picture!

I've known Ben somewhat since he first started posting on Bob Clarks forum years ago. I've talked with him numerous times on the various forums, and via the phone, and KNOW he has put some premium money into his animals, including his new building/facility. Him and Cady have been good friends of mine for a while...I don't see him ripping off anyone, misrepresenting his animals, nor trying to scam any person in any way...The pictures look a little warm due to the white balance being off. Incandescent bulbs cause that yellow wash, along with incorrect exposure and white balance (as said before). I see no real photoshopping/chopping being done here... If you'd like to talk to Ben about it, or feel some concern, shoot him a PM, or a call. He will reply to you, and let you know the full deal. Bens a great guy, with his hands in some seriously killer projects in the hobby, and a lot of dedication and time towards it...cut the guy some slack.

Ok I was once told to not beat a dead horse on this site and I got in trouble fr doing this exact thing. SO STOP IT. He realizes his mistake. All of you can just come off it. I find it kinda rude that everyone is still beating him up. Good lord people he made a mistake and you are all going for his throat. He knows better now and I'm sure he will do more research next time but for now everyone could kindly back off. We all see that Ben is a good guy but how was he to know. He thought that he was doing us all a favor so he has good intentions and everyone needs to realize that. I am kinda appalled by some peoples reactions. There is no reason to be so rude over a mistake. :rage:

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Originally Posted by yeahyeah

I was not saying he was not a stand up guy.

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instead you just said

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I am sick of seeing people misrepresenting their animals and selling them to people. Photos of snakes that you just know are not what they look like in real life. Here's an excellent example.

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I guess you meant that as a compliment :rolleyes: :confuzd:

Again the picture is not good enough for you, contact the breeder ask for more, however not need to make such a claim as someone misrepresenting their animals. :colbert:

I don't see anything wrong....:confuzd: I thought it was a gorgeous animal!!

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Originally Posted by Tosha_Mc

There are a lot of people that use filters and other image enhancing software to clean up their pictures. IMO one shouldn't do anything other than crop your pictures but seems like more and more people are touching up as well. As a buyer be informed what you are looking for and looking at and you'll be fine -- don't hesitate to ask the seller for a natural sunlight picture if it makes you feel better.

BTW - I'm not saying there is any enhancement on the photos presented but just offering up a perspective.

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yeah, just pick up a playboy and see for yourself.;)

Ive never seen something bad written about Ben or his animals. Maybe next time instead of trying to humiliate someone publicly you should just make a post saying something to the fact of "hey is this for real" or "has anyone dealt with this person before" or how about asking for some general feedback.

I understand there are many out there trying to cheat you out of your dollar and of course you should be on gaurd. But there comes a point when playing snake police where you "could" really hurt a "Good Guys" reputation by your assumptions/opinions.

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Originally Posted by RoyalGuardian

Ok I was once told to not beat a dead horse on this site and I got in trouble fr doing this exact thing. SO STOP IT. He realizes his mistake. All of you can just come off it. I find it kinda rude that everyone is still beating him up. Good lord people he made a mistake and you are all going for his throat. He knows better now and I'm sure he will do more research next time but for now everyone could kindly back off. We all see that Ben is a good guy but how was he to know. He thought that he was doing us all a favor so he has good intentions and everyone needs to realize that. I am kinda appalled by some peoples reactions. There is no reason to be so rude over a mistake. :rage:

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I'm not sure you read his second post in this thread.

Well, as much as I don't like bumping this post, I figure I'd go ahead and thank everyone for the compliments! I really do appreciate it. As some said, I would be more than happy to take more photos of the animals without a problem at all.

As far as the photo goes, whenever I moved, my facility has a yellow toned tile which seems to give all of my photos a tone of yellow as well (although some Fires do have some nice oranges and yellows either way), I've been trying to fix it, but I'm no photographer... :please: Which is why I always tell people I'm more than happy to take more photos of the animal. I am in no way trying to misrepresent any animal I produce or sell. I always want my customers to be more than happy with their purchase, period! :gj:

Thanks again everyone!

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Originally Posted by Ben_Renick

Well, as much as I don't like bumping this post, I figure I'd go ahead and thank everyone for the compliments! I really do appreciate it. As some said, I would be more than happy to take more photos of the animals without a problem at all.

As far as the photo goes, whenever I moved, my facility has a yellow toned tile which seems to give all of my photos a tone of yellow as well (although some Fires do have some nice oranges and yellows either way), I've been trying to fix it, but I'm no photographer... :please: Which is why I always tell people I'm more than happy to take more photos of the animal. I am in no way trying to misrepresent any animal I produce or sell. I always want my customers to be more than happy with their purchase, period! :gj:

Thanks again everyone!

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