what monitor?

which one should i get?

and could either of the three live in a 8x4x4

ive narrowed it down to either the sav or the argus.

If you are looking for an animal you can handle, I would go Sav. They tend to calm down with handling while argus are a flighty species and require a lot of room as they are very active. Your enclosure sounds perfect for a sav! Make sure you do your research and keep us posted with what you decide upon! :) Goodluck buddy! :salute:

Why is the decision to only those three species?

thanx i'm leaning towards the sav. and it was only between those 3 monitors becuase those were the three i was considering, but if wanna suggest something else that can live in an 8x4x3 cage.

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Originally Posted by camb

if wanna suggest something else that can live in an 8x4x3 cage.

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....Blackheaded monitors, Kimberley Rock Monitors, Yellow or Red Ackies, Sand Goannas....

...just to name a few. There are alot better captives than all three of the species you listed ...in my opinion.

im looking for something a little bit larger than the first 3 lizards you listed, but thanx for the input.

i think im gonna go with a savannah monitor. unless i find something that i like even more, but from the monitors i've seen and have the means to properly take care of savs look like the best option. but if any one thinks otherwise id love to hear more suggestions.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

....Blackheaded monitors, Kimberley Rock Monitors, Yellow or Red Ackies, Sand Goannas....

...just to name a few. There are alot better captives than all three of the species you listed ...in my opinion.

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....most of those monitors are on the pricey side...he will be able to find a nice sav for under $100....and sav are not as active and dont require the ample space many of the above monitors require. You could get away with a 1.2 colony of red or yellow ackies and they arent as pricey as the others....in the end, I still say sav. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

....most of those monitors are on the pricey side...he will be able to find a nice sav for under $100....:

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You will be able to find a 'nice' sav for under $100; however, if he manages to keep the sav living for longer than a year.......the purchase price + feeding costs would equal out in a few years. You may get off cheap when buying an argus or sav, but an animal that can put down over a half dozen adult mice a week can be somewhat pricy in the long run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

....and sav are not as active and dont require the ample space many of the above monitors require.

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How do you figure? An adult sav will not be able to change directions in that enclosure without hitting a side of the cage. I have NEVER seen any field surveys that say savs have smaller ranges than the small Aussie dwarfs. But does that even matter? Maybe I am not up to date on my sav husbandry, but as far as I remember they require just as much space as any other similar sized species......thing is that most people don't even provide them a small fraction of the space they could utilize in captivity....maybe that makes some people misjudge the size of cage they actually need.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

....You could get away with a 1.2 colony of red or yellow ackies and they arent as pricey as the others....in the end, I still say sav. :gj

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A 1.3 colony of quality red ackies will cost around $800+. Even individually they are comparable in price to blackheads. If he is just interested in one monitor, purchacing a group of ackies would that be any different than buying an adult male kimberley for $400, or a Blackheaded monitor for $250.....

but he does't want something small....

....I would recommend searching around for some Sand Monitors (Varanus flavirufus).

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

....I would recommend searching around for some Sand Monitors (Varanus flavirufus).

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...these animals need plenty of room to burrow as they dig the most of any monitor I know of...Savs do not require a deep medium to burrow in...makes cleaning of cages all the much more easier too! :)


Camb how much are you looking to spend on the monitor if I may ask? The sand monitor are not that common and tend to be a bit on the pricey side.

im looking to spend about $50-$150. regardlessof which is a better pet monitor ive been doing some research and i think im gonna go with a sav, and any i have a while to decide.

camb, I would seriously listen to Daniel. Some of the other info being given is incorrect.

Good Luck! Make sure you post pics once you get the lil bugger! :salute:

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

camb, I would seriously listen to Daniel. Some of the other info being given is incorrect.

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:confused:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Savs do not require a deep medium to burrow in

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Where are you getting all of this information from?

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Where are you getting all of this information from?

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what are you doing recomending a flavirufus as a FIRST monitor? since you asked tho...a friend of mine breeds argus (Camb PM me and I can give you his contact info) although not flavirufus, he knows on the species and we have spoken about them. flavirufus are a small to medium size monitor that require room to burrow as they burrow to escape the heat of the day. Also, goodluck at finding one for under $150.

Yes you have to know when to say enough is enough when feeding savs because they will eat you out of the house....the flavirufus also requires a lot of food for how active they are. They like the argus, will also eat you out of the house if you are familiar with Argus.

He has listed in his signature, a cornsnake, Ball Python, Leo Gecko, Argentina BW tegu, and a RES....

....why would you recommend a flavirufus? I would personally direct him towards an acantharus before an flavirufus for someone who is looking to get into monitors...

...Camb said he was researching the animals above, I am sure he will choose what suits him best.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

what are you doing recomending a flavirufus as a FIRST monitor?.

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What are you doing recommending an Argus? No difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

since you asked tho...a friend of mine breeds argus (Camb PM me and I can give you his contact info) although not flavirufus, he knows on the species and we have spoken about them. flavirufus are a small to medium size monitor that require room to burrow as they burrow to escape the heat of the day. Also, goodluck at finding one for under $150.

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Good for your friend. Argus and flavis are very similar. Both are medium sized monitors that require room to burrow....but then again so do Savs. The only difference is that v. favirufus will cost between $1200-$1500 per animal....so what? I didn't know the guy was looking for a cheap animal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Yes you have to know when to say enough is enough when feeding savs because they will eat you out of the house....the flavirufus also requires a lot of food for how active they are. They like the argus, will also eat you out of the house if you are familiar with Argus.

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Yes they all eat alot and those costs will add up quick. Never said otherwise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

....why would you recommend a flavirufus? I would personally direct him towards an acantharus before an flavirufus for someone who is looking to get into monitors....

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Why would you recommend a sav? I included acanthurus in my recommendation....but then again it was just a recommendation....thats all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

...Camb said he was researching the animals above, I am sure he will choose what suits him best.

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You said that savs need less space and less burrowing medium than others of species. I don't agree with those statements....

anyways....the guy is getting a sav.....guess that is the end of it:)

To the OP, instead of asking others what monitor you should get, why not do a lot more research on the monitors you are interested in until you find a species that fits into your own requirements?

Personally, I like Savannah monitors. My sister used to own one, and I really did like it (although I'm not too interested in lizards). Though, keep in mind that sometimes Savs don't like to be held, so regular handling sessions should be on a daily schedule so you have a docile Sav. You wouldn't want a large, aggressive Sav.

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

Though, keep in mind that sometimes Savs don't like to be held, so regular handling sessions should be on a daily schedule so you have a docile Sav. You wouldn't want a large, aggressive Sav.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

If you are looking for an animal you can handle, I would go Sav. They tend to calm down with handling

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Just to clear this up for the OP (who is looking for information), continuing to force handle a Sav that doesn't want to be held is a great way to have a large, angry Sav who doesn't trust its keeper.

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Originally Posted by allergenic

Just to clear this up for the OP (who is looking for information), continuing to force handle a Sav that doesn't want to be held is a great way to have a large, angry Sav who doesn't trust its keeper.

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That is why you start out with short handling sessions so you put less stress on the lizard as well as getting it used to handling. As it gets more used to the short handling sessions you extend your time.

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

That is why you start out with short handling sessions so you put less stress on the lizard as well as getting it used to handling. As it gets more used to the short handling sessions you extend your time.

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Not to turn this into a handling thread, but although that may work for other animals and reptiles, it does not work for monitors, it will only exacerbate the problem. Monitors aren't snakes, or bearded dragons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by allergenic

Just to clear this up for the OP (who is looking for information), continuing to force handle a Sav that doesn't want to be held is a great way to have a large, angry Sav who doesn't trust its keeper.

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Dug this one out of the grave eh?

...for the record...never did I say force handle...nor do I believe there is a species that "likes" to be handled out of the egg. In the end, you are 'handling' a wild animal, so handle it with respect...don't force anything.

I was just suggesting, from previous experience, Savs can mellow-down with handling...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by allergenic

Not to turn this into a handling thread, but although that may work for other animals and reptiles, it does not work for monitors, it will only exacerbate the problem. Monitors aren't snakes, or bearded dragons.

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Yes, I know that, but when my sister owned her Sav she would take it out for short amount of times and after a bit it got used to her and wasn't too much afraid to be handled. He did love his neck rubbed after a meal, he would close his eyes too. Not all reptiles are the same, but I do know that some Savs would adjust to handling sessions. Not all of them like it because probably 99% of them are bush babies but it isn't impossible to get them used to being handled. I've seen some very well behaved Savs that didn't mind being picked up, especially large ones.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

...for the record...never did I say force handle...
I was just suggesting, from previous experience, Savs can mellow-down with handling...

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For a monitor that doesn't like to be held, is there another kind of handling besides force-handling? What do you call it then? Happy-handling?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Dug this one out of the grave eh?

...for the record...never did I say force handle...nor do I believe there is a species that "likes" to be handled out of the egg. In the end, you are 'handling' a wild animal, so handle it with respect...don't force anything.

I was just suggesting, from previous experience, Savs can mellow-down with handling...

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This is definitely agreeable, if my sister's Sav mellowed-down a bit after being handled for short sessions I do believe it isn't impossible for others to go the same way.

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Originally Posted by allergenic

For a monitor that doesn't like to be held, is there another kind of handling besides force-handling? What do you call it then? Happy-handling?

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Nope...

First off you can't rush into handling...you need to start off slow...do not FORCE anything.

If it is exhibiting any sign of not wanting to be handled...hissing...tail lashing...then you leave it alone.

Start with baby steps in the approach...

Really isn't a difficult concept to wrap your head around...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Nope...
First off you can't rush into handling...you need to start off slow...do not FORCE anything.

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You missed my point. If a monitor doesn't want to be held, and you are holding it, you are force-handling. Whether it's for 5 minutes or 5 seconds, you are still force-handling.

Bad advice for the OP, all around. Aren't you the same guy who said above that Savs don't need deep substrate?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by allergenic

You missed my point. If a monitor doesn't want to be held, and you are holding it, you are force-handling. Whether it's for 5 minutes or 5 seconds, you are still force-handling.

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You aren't getting the point he is trying to give you, he isn't missing your point at all.

No reptile wants to be handled. But we took the little steps in handling that docile reptiles do not really mind if they are being handled.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

You aren't getting the point he is trying to give you, he isn't missing your point at all.
No reptile wants to be handled. But we took the little steps in handling that docile reptiles do not really mind if they are being handled.

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Skip five posts back to where I tell you that's bad advice. I'd like to see you try "handling sessions" with an angry Argus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by allergenic

Skip five posts back to where I tell you that's bad advice. I'd like to see you try "handling sessions" with an angry Argus.

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I bet I can work with it by taking small steps to make than angry Sav into a more less aggressive one. I wouldn't guarantee it would be docile, just like I don't ever guarantee I can make any angry snake docile. I've worked with aggressive reptiles before, and I know certain things I can do where I don't put myself in a bad situation neither do I put the reptile in a bad situation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by allergenic

You missed my point. If a monitor doesn't want to be held, and you are holding it, you are force-handling. Whether it's for 5 minutes or 5 seconds, you are still force-handling.

Bad advice for the OP, all around. Aren't you the same guy who said above that Savs don't need deep substrate?

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Must be missing eachother's point I suppose.

...as for the deep substrates...I feel you already know the answer...so why ask?

You just have to accept the fact that some folks hold different opinions on the husbandry requirements of various species. You apparently have had little luck in the taming of Savs...

It may blow your mind, however with the right technique...which does not include restraining the animal against it's will...one can tame a Sav...

You can carry on with your rebuttal however I am done with this thread as I am not one to force my ideas on another...

HA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

I bet I can work with it by taking small steps to make than angry Sav into a more less aggressive one. I wouldn't guarantee it would be docile, just like I don't ever guarantee I can make any angry snake docile. I've worked with aggressive reptiles before, and I know certain things I can do where I don't put myself in a bad situation neither do I put the reptile in a bad situation.

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Wow, and you learned all this from being around your sister's Sav and not owning any monitors? I'll have to admit, I'm quite impressed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

You just have to accept the fact that some folks hold different opinions on the husbandry requirements of various species. You apparently have had little luck in the taming of Savs...

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I've only had luck getting monitors to trust me through respecting their space and allowing interactions to be on the monitor's terms and not mine, so what do I know?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

It may blow your mind, however with the right technique...which does not include restraining the animal against it's will...one can tame a Sav...

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Does it involve drowning the animal in a bathtub and playing rescuer? This is starting to sound eerily familiar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

You can carry on with your rebuttal however I am done with this thread as I am not one to force my ideas on another...

HA.

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This thread was done from the first minute the poll was posted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by allergenic

Wow, and you learned all this from being around your sister's Sav and not owning any monitors? I'll have to admit, I'm quite impressed.

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I did all of her research for her, talked to some people who had/have Savs, and even cared after the Sav when she asked me to. I've had a lot more experience with snakes than lizards, but I am nutorious for researching stuff about any type of reptile. You are taking both of our posts too seriously and too offensively, so I am also done with this thread because I definitely don't want to be talking to someone who is explaining their thoughts in a very rude, offensive way.

Peace.

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

You are taking both of our posts too seriously and too offensively, so I am also done with this thread because I definitely don't want to be talking to someone who is explaining their thoughts in a very rude, offensive way.

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I find that there are "widely accepted" practices in the reptile pet trade that are simply incorrect, handling a monitor into submission to get it to calm down is one of them. In medium to slightly larger species such as Argus, which the OP was discussing acquiring, advice like that will prove extremely dangerous for both monitor and keeper, and could result in serious injury for the OP.

At 14 years of age, I don't think you perhaps have enough experience to have thought that through. If disagreeing with these "widely accepted" practices and pointing out bad advice like that makes me rude and offensive, I simply don't know what to tell you.

To the OP, I would save your money and get the monitor you REALLY want. If it costs twice as much, who cares? After you figure the cost of housing & feeding it, the extra cost of the animal you want is really a small concern, unless of course it's outrageously expensive.

Not trying to hijack this thread; I noticed no one has voted for white throats, are they not good monitors to keep? I have one available to me and it's a beautiful specimen so I'm curious.

Thanks in advance

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Originally Posted by Nadamamasboy

Not trying to hijack this thread; I noticed no one has voted for white throats, are they not good monitors to keep? I have one available to me and it's a beautiful specimen so I'm curious.

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If someone is posting a poll asking which monitor to get, chances are strong they are young, inexperienced with monitors, or both. An Albig is way too much monitor for someone who hasn't kept a monitor before, and even many who have. The caging requirements alone are tough enough, let alone the physical injury an inexperienced keeper is likely to sustain from trying to deal with a monitor that size.

Nice to see people arguing over a thread that is well over a year ;)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Nice to see people arguing over a thread that is well over a year ;)

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It was listed at the top of the forum last night, with last active activity Feb 6th.

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Originally Posted by allergenic

It was listed at the top of the forum last night, with last active activity Feb 6th.

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Yes...that can happen when an OLD poll is voted on...it bumps the thread back to the top...then folks start posting and commenting without noticing that their comments are mostly irrelevant due to the date of the poll. ;)

I try to close polls older than 90 days (with a few notable exceptions)...however, with so many polls being created all the time, it's easy to miss them until they get bumped up like this one. It's closed now...and will eventually sink to the bottom of the pile where it belongs.

Im looking to spend about $50-$150. Regardlessof which is a better pet monitor ive been doing some research and i think im gonna go with a sav, and any i have a while to decide.

I have a Ornate Nile monitor and a Savannah monitor.

Here is what I feed them every week:
Sunday- Two hard boiled eggs each
Monday- Nothing
Tuesday- Two rat pups each and two dozen roaches each
Wednesday- Nothing
Thursday- 4 ounces cooked beef liver each
Friday- Nothing
Saturday- Nothing

The Savannah monitor is three years old at 3ft. long and the Nile monitor is almost two years old at 2 1/2ft. long

I house them both kind of the same, except the Nile stays a little more moist. I keep them both of them in their own 125 gallon tank, the substrate is the excavator clay, sold at reptiledirect.com, I like that because I lay a thick layer of it down and they can make their own burrows. It holds much better than the half dirt, half sand mix I used to do. I have a typical reptile screen lid on the tank, in the middle I have a 250 watt white heat lamp, then off to the side I have the powersun 160 watt uvb uva heat combined bulb. On the other side of the tank I have nothing, and the temperature stays at about 75 degrees. In the middle with the 250 watt bulb I have a basking tree for the Nile, and a big stack of stones for the Savannah, as she is horrible at climbing. The basking spot stays at 100- 115 degrees. My warm side with the 160 watt powersun bulb stays at 80-90 degrees. I also keep their water bowls (Giant cat litter boxes) on the cool side. I see it this way, in the summer we like to cool off by going in a pool or taking a cold shower right? I do the same for them and leave the water on the cool side so it is at least refreshing.

Sorry that turned out so long. I also used to rescue monitors, but it is an expensive business so I had to quit it. I know I am probably going to get crap for keeping them in fish tanks, but I believe they need moving air too, but you do need higher watt bulbs in order to keep them in fish tanks, because then otherwise the heat does just rise out of the tank.

Hope this helps!

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Originally Posted by bsash

I have a Ornate Nile monitor and a Savannah monitor.

the Nile monitor is almost two years old at 2 1/2ft. long

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Ouch.

My V. ornatus is 1 1/2 years old and almost 5 feet. Eats everyday until he's 2...

Chris

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Originally Posted by mumps

Ouch.

My V. ornatus is 1 1/2 years old and almost 5 feet. Eats everyday until he's 2...

Chris

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When I got the Nile monitor he/she was being starved to death. The past owner no longer wanted it and I guess felt letting it die would be best, so I gave him $50 for the monitor and bought it back home with me. He told me that it was a year old then, so I assume that the Nile monitor is almost two, because I have had it since then. Possible growth stunt? I am unsure. I do feed real food items such as frozen/thawed baby chicks, rat pups, and super worms with the hard boiled eggs and beef liver, so it's not like they only get real food once a week. I would be open to suggestions, I do have them both in fish tanks right now, but hopefully by April/May I will have their new enclosures built, and everything will be on the inside (Heat bulbs, misting, and so on.). I don't want people to think that I treat my animals like crap, I work very hard to keep everything just right for them. I was actually supposed to have the enclosures built last summer, but my grandmother got real sick, and then she passed away, so honestly, the enclosures never got done.

bash:

Maybe you should have mentioned the rescue situation when you posted originally... didn't mean to "bash" you, lol.

Varanids grow exponentially in the first couple of years (as do all living things), and eat everyday, at least something. I notice you don't feed yours everyday; you should. My ornatus gets a medium rat everyday except for the days he gets ground turkey and eggs. Turkey once a week and eggs every 2 - 3 weeks.

You will find when you make your enclosures (I recommend walk-ins; saves you having to make more later on), that once you are not coming in from the top, they will trust you more as right now you are perceived as a "swoop down" predator.

Good luck with your varanids.

Chris

I actually used to try and feed them everyday, neither one of them ever wanted to eat that often, but I could try it again. I don't feed turkey, just beef liver and hard boiled eggs with their live food.

Also, don't worry, no hard feelings over here.