Toffee Ball

Has anyone heard any news on the Toffee ball? Last I heard they were trying to get him to breed, but they didn't get any eggs.

I just did a quick google search as I knew I seen something about the toffee ball before. I was able to find the site again and according to the urban pythons website, he produced some babies last year. they actually sold two 07 hets from him.

http://www.theurbanpython.com/availability_ball.html
http://www.theurbanpython.com/toffee.html

Thanks a lot! Man, I'd nearly give almost anything to have a pair of het's of Toffee's, lol. Sooo freaking beautiful!

Would you give 19 thousand dollars? Because you totally missed your chance for that :P Sadly they were probably siblings and really shouldn't have been bred together.

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Originally Posted by Purrrfect9

Thanks a lot! Man, I'd nearly give almost anything to have a pair of het's of Toffee's, lol. Sooo freaking beautiful!

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I completely agree, that toffee ball has to be one of the best looking balls I've ever seen!!! in about... 20 years they might be cheap enough for someone like me to afford lol

wow....they look amazing...kinda puts me in the mind of a reduced pattern butter

beautiful color !

I would give both my legs for that Toffee ball. Deffently the best ball i've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Would you give 19 thousand dollars? Because you totally missed your chance for that :P Sadly they were probably siblings and really shouldn't have been bred together.

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Do not breed sibs?

Where do you think all the combos and what not have come from? That is mostly what BP breeders do. Sib to sib, parent to offspring, etc.

Line breeding is fine in BPs, you can line breed non-migratory species.

Bruce

I thought that the toffee ball hadn't even been proven genetic yet? I've never heard of visible toffee offspring...I mean, it looks genetic, and I really hope it's genetic...and they assume it's recessive...but has it been actually proven? I know they got supposedly 'het' toffees in 07, but... I don't know. Personally, I wouldn't shell out $18000 for a pair of animals which MIGHT be het for a trait (however beautiful) which MIGHT be genetic. They call the toffee 'one of a kind' on their website, which makes me believe that it's the only one in captivity, which really makes me wonder if it isn't just an anomaly.

I know that since 07 was the first year they were produced we won't be seeing father-daughter copulations until 09, but regardless...I would neither be selling nor buying animals as "hets" from an unproven morph.

If it has been proven out, then my apologies (and pics?? :please: ) and if not, then...I really, really hope it does!!!

:O:O
I'd give my left kidney for one of those Tofees!

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Originally Posted by Seneschal

Personally, I wouldn't shell out $18000 for a pair of animals which MIGHT be het for a trait (however beautiful) which MIGHT be genetic. They call the toffee 'one of a kind' on their website, which makes me believe that it's the only one in captivity, which really makes me wonder if it isn't just an anomaly.

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they are offering a guarantee...

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Would you give 19 thousand dollars? Because you totally missed your chance for that :P Sadly they were probably siblings and really shouldn't have been bred together.

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It's difficult to not breed at least half-sibs when you have a one of a kind animal. These things inbreed in nature!!!

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Originally Posted by Somed00d

they are offering a guarantee...

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Regardless...I wouldn't feel comfortable shelling out that much for something that might be hets, or might be normals.

I have a adult pair of het Paragon's. Wish me luck that I get them to produce this year! It is one of my side projects. I hope that they prove out. It is very cool snake.

Brock

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Originally Posted by Seneschal

Regardless...I wouldn't feel comfortable shelling out that much for something that might be hets, or might be normals.

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These guys (theurbanpython) are like a canadian ralph davis. I wouldn't hesitate to buy hets from them, even these toffee hets if I had the $$..

here is the guarantee:

Although we and many others have no doubt that the trait is inheritable, we can appreciate the potential anxiety that can accompany an opportunity that commands this level of investment. Therefore each and every Toffee offspring will be sold with a written agreement guaranteeing the genetics of this project. In other words your investment is 100% protected against the project not proving out. The long and short of it is we have no doubt that the Toffee Ball is a simple recessive mutation and we will stand behind that with a full money back guarantee.

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Originally Posted by Brock Wagner

I have a adult pair of het Paragon's. Wish me luck that I get them to produce this year! It is one of my side projects. I hope that they prove out. It is very cool snake.

Brock

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Paragon's are like the toffee, but with black speckling, am I correct? It's been such a long time since I've heard anything about them >.< good luck and please do keep us posted on the outcome!

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Originally Posted by Somed00d

These guys (theurbanpython) are like a canadian ralph davis. I wouldn't hesitate to buy hets from them, even these toffee hets if I had the $$..

here is the guarantee:

Although we and many others have no doubt that the trait is inheritable, we can appreciate the potential anxiety that can accompany an opportunity that commands this level of investment. Therefore each and every Toffee offspring will be sold with a written agreement guaranteeing the genetics of this project. In other words your investment is 100% protected against the project not proving out. The long and short of it is we have no doubt that the Toffee Ball is a simple recessive mutation and we will stand behind that with a full money back guarantee.

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If you look on their site you will see that the animals from 3 different clutches all HIGHLY resemble each other. I am guessing that Craig is certain that they are "visual hets".

I have 2 projects ongoing that where each of the males have produced offspring that have the same unique markers, although the clutches were from 3 normal females -- same kind of thing -- I hope!!!

I seem to remember Urban Python sold something like 4.4 for 15,000 a pair back in the summer/fall of 07. They were around 400-500 grams at the time. They sold ALL of them in under a month after being offered.:)

There were a total of about 15 het's that Craig made available last year. And another 1.1 about a month or 2 ago. And yes there is no risk as he is offering a full refund if it dosen't prove out. I picked up a male so lets hope it does prove out. Here's a pick of him with a girlfriend feom 2 days ago.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...feexnormal.jpg

Bill,

Thanks and where on their site are the pictures of the other babies (I just found the two recently for sale). I definitely see a look (reduced, rich fading frosted chocolate, light boundaries, side pattern tending to widen and fork low if it does even go all the way down) to those two and the breeding male above. I’m just not sure I understand it well enough yet but got me wanting to go clean snake cages and compare.

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Originally Posted by Brock Wagner

I have a adult pair of het Paragon's. Wish me luck that I get them to produce this year! It is one of my side projects. I hope that they prove out. It is very cool snake.

Brock

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The Para-gone actually produced some offspring? When did that happen?

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Bill,

Thanks and where on their site are the pictures of the other babies (I just found the two recently for sale). I definitely see a look (reduced, rich fading frosted chocolate, light boundaries, side pattern tending to widen and fork low if it does even go all the way down) to those two and the breeding male above. I’m just not sure I understand it well enough yet but got me wanting to go clean snake cages and compare.

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Randy -- They may have taken down the 07 hatch pics over the last 3 months. They were in their available section and did resemble each other enough to be considered visual hets for my money -- although I did not purchase any.

I think their money is safe. I will look at the 08 pics (haven't done so yet).
The people thet purchased pairs should be breeding them this coming season. I feed my snakes :D -- I would have early 07 girls near 2000 grams by now. I think they will prove and be a popular morph. Of the 3 -- Paragon, Burgandy, and Toffee -- I like the Toffee most.;)

As sure as I am that one, and likely both, of my 2 projects will prove -- I have never considered letting any of them go before they do. I am not judging Craig in the least. I know he wanted to give others the opportunity to prove the animals along with him -- kind of cool I think.:gj:

Plus he is starting out with an apparent homozygous. In my case I have a line (from a possible het pied) that has some of that look going on. Based on this thread I've now decided to buy my last female for the $25 I had her listed for. Still I might be ripping myself off as that's probably about all mine are worth as its likely nothing without a homozygous parent and a subtle not that uncommon look. I already sold all the other clutch mates except one female with both the glazed look and the pied marker (like dad) but looking at pics there might have been others with this look.

I could take it or leave it. I would much rather spend the money on some other morphs.:D

It's a testament to the incredible success of the ball python industry that it's been able to produce such numbers of absolutely stunning morphs that someone could yawn at a Toffee.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

It's a testament to the incredible success of the ball python industry that it's been able to produce such numbers of absolutely stunning morphs that someone could yawn at a Toffee.

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True.

I am a sucker for contrast and bright color. No reduced pattern or patternless snakes for me. Most of my fav morphs are not rare at all. I actually like the look of a nice pastel more than the toffee.

Mark I actually consider the Toffee ball, Candy ball and Paragon all to be the same morph. Sorry if I mislead you. I have adult het's so we shall see if I can get lucky and make one.

Brock

I'm one of the ones who took a "gamble" and got a pair of het toffees from Craig. The guarantee was enough to convince me that it wasn't a gamble at all. My female could be ready this year but I would be cutting it close...it's going to be a really tough call. :)

Craig had it on display at the last Toronto reptile expo...It's nice to be able to see the adult colors. Can't wait to see what a baby will look like.

It would also be nice to do an exchange with someone who's working with the Paragon in the future to see if they're compatible.

I'm just a small breeder who does this as an after-hours hobby so I really can't wait until I see one peeking at me from inside the egg.... It's going to be a really long year and a half.:O

Denis
DenJenn Reptiles
www.pythonregius.ca

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Originally Posted by patenaud

I'm one of the ones who took a "gamble" and got a pair of het toffees from Craig. The guarantee was enough to convince me that it wasn't a gamble at all. My female could be ready this year but I would be cutting it close...it's going to be a really tough call. :)

Craig had it on display at the last Toronto reptile expo...It's nice to be able to see the adult colors. Can't wait to see what a baby will look like.

It would also be nice to do an exchange with someone who's working with the Paragon in the future to see if they're compatible.

I'm just a small breeder who does this as an after-hours hobby so I really can't wait until I see one peeking at me from inside the egg.... It's going to be a really long year and a half.:O

Denis
DenJenn Reptiles
www.pythonregius.ca

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Good luck, Dennis. I prefer the Toffee best of the 3. I think they will prove and I would roll the dice if they are 18 months old and at least 1600 grams -- but that is me!!!;)

Does anyone know what the status on the sandblast and lemonfrost projects from Urban Python?? Those are two unique looking animals!

Alan

Not sure about the Sandblast or the Lemon Frost projects, but that Toffee that Urban Python has on their website is probably the coolest BP morph I've ever seen...beats the Piebald and the Lucy for my money.....which I'm starting to save as we speak:D

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

Good luck, Dennis. I prefer the Toffee best of the 3. I think they will prove and I would roll the dice if they are 18 months old and at least 1600 grams -- but that is me!!!;)

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Thanks Bill.

I had the male and female lock up a couple of days ago...keeping my fingers crossed.


Denis
www.pythonregius.ca

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I had the male and female lock up a couple of days ago...keeping my fingers crossed.

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Nice to hear that Denis, hope you hit the odds on the first clutch my friend :)

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Originally Posted by patenaud

Thanks Bill.

I had the male and female lock up a couple of days ago...keeping my fingers crossed.


Denis
www.pythonregius.ca

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Best of luck proving them out. It's one of the nicest BP to date. I could just imagine a Toffee Pied!

Thanks for the wishes...Hopefully I can revive this post with some good news in the summer.

Denis
www.pythonregius.ca

there are toffee balls for sale on kingsnake right now.

Try to avoid bumping topics that are a year and a half old :rolleye2:

Why? :rolleye2:

Because in any web forum you go to necroposting is frowned upon. Dead threads are supposed to remain dead.

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Because in any web forum you go to necroposting is frowned upon. Dead threads are supposed to remain dead.

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I guess I missed that section in the TOS.

It's ok dude. Here is the newer thread though:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ghlight=toffee

Gorgeous snake!

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

I guess I missed that section in the TOS.

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Its not really against the rules, its just frowned on. Hence just saying try not to, instead of dont, and saying it's frowned on instead of against the rules. Some people dont use other forums and often dont know about this.

Not trying to chew you out, sorry dude. :gj:

for how much goes the toffee?

15k on reptilescanada

When did Oxylepy become a Moderator????

Oxylepy

Next time you have a thought, just let it go....:D