Some cage questions.

I've been preparing my 30 gallon tank for a ball python we have at work, and I have a few questions regarding humidity and temperature (and possibly other things):

I am going to get a screen lid for the tank, but I know that i'll have to do something to keep the humidity and temperature up. I've seen where people "aluminum treat" mesh lids. What's aluminum treating?

I bought an UTH, and installed it on one side of the tank, which was supposed to be the warm side of the tank, but the substrate is only 83*F. This is too cool, correct? I'm not sure what to do about this...i'd like to avoid using heat lamps or CHE's since they'll dry my tank out. The substrate I have in the tank isn't going to be permanent, so we'll see what the temp is when I get the good stuff in.

Speaking of substrate, has anyone had any experience with "Bed-a-Beast"? It's coconut fiber stuff that comes in a brick that you tear apart.

And will a large water bowl and daily mistings keep the humidity high enough?

Sorry for so many questions, I just wanna get it right the first time. =]

I'll probably have more questions soon lol.

Thanks,
Brock Fluharty

what size is the under the tank heater . I found the zoo med uth arent sufficient. the one i use is exoterra desert not the rainforest . I found this one to work the best . and I use a rack system now the screen aquarim doesnt work , unless you keep the room warm . and I like it around 65 so that wouldnt work for me if you use the the screen cover a good bit of it with cardboard or plastic sighn material . good luck

I don't see why you found the ZooMed pads insufficient, unless you used one that was too small or didn't measure temps right on the glass. I use those pads almost exclusively and they are perfect for the cause. Testing them is encouraged, and if they don't reach at least 100 within an hour they are defective and should be returned. But all the ones I've gotten have always heated right up quite fast.

Anyway, :) aluminum, or foil, treating is a method used to cover most of the screen top with layers of foil to keep in heat and humidity. I have a tutorial on the process I can send you if you wish. :) If you treat the top and have a wide dish, you shouldn't have to mist the tank much at all.

You'll find that covering the back and both sides of any tank with opaque background and then some form of insulation (such as cork or foam board) will help greatly in keeping heat stable in a glass enclosure.

Any heat source used should be sized for the tank to cover 1/4-1/3 of the bottom on one side. Also, the substrate does not need to be much deeper than the first joint of a finger. BPs usually aren't burrowers like corns and kings, and if the temps are managed right they won't have need to burrow down.
The probe for the thermometer should be under the substrate against the glass right over the UTH to measure the warm side temp.
Also, any heat source MUST be controlled by a thermostat or dimmer at the least! Those pads can reach 120+ very fast just plugged into the wall socket.

That Bed-A-Beast stuff is very messy and you have to make sure it's TOTALLY dried out before putting it into a snake tank, since excess substrate moisture will lead to scale rot.
The best substrates are newsprint paper and aspen, IMHO.

I have the small desert UTh from ExoTerra.

I measured the temp on the bottom glass, and it's 85*F. Is this warm enough?

I bought a nice big water bowl, a CHE, and some bedding today from work. I just have to find a screen lid the right size, since we don't have any at work.

Once I get the lid, i'll foil treat it to help with the temperature and humidity.

Go ahead and send me that tutorial when you get the chance. :)

Thanks,
Brock

Got my bedding in, and the CHE hooked up, and the warm side is sitting at 90*F. Checking the cool side momentarily...

Just gotta get the screen lid, dimmer, thermometer/hygrometer, and I should be set...I hope nobody buys him before I get the tank all ready!

:D

Cool side is sitting at 76-77*F. I'll need to get that up. Hopefully when I get a screen lid and foil treat it that'll take care of it.

How should I get it sexed? I've read ways to do it, but they all say to let a professional do it. So would I have to take it to the vet, or is it safe to do it myself? If so, which method would be safest for a newbie?

I have to disagree with Argentra, now I may be wrong, but If I measure my temp. on my warm side right on top of the glass on top of the UTH i get like 118 F, but if I measure just under the very top layer of bedding, or on the top layer, i get around 92 F. Loose bedding can absorb alot of temperature depending on how thick it is.

Wait, are you disagreeing with the fact that you need to use a dimmer? Or the fact that you need to place the probe right on the bottom glass above the UTH?

Just trying to be clear :P

Oh sorry about that. Argenta mentioned placing the Temp. Probe right on top of the glass, under all the substrate, I would not reccomend this becuase with even a 1/2" I find that the temperature can differ by around 5 degrees farenhiet.

Dimmer I do suggest.

Ahh, ok.

Well i'll measure both, and make sure that the top of the bedding is the right temp. I'm more worried about the top of the bedding than the bottom to be honest.

Oh, and how long can I safely keep it out of it's cage? Like if i'm holding it, will it eventually freeze without the heat of it's cage? I'll probably end up just draping it over my shoulders or arm and doing homework or something, but I don't want to keep it away from it's heat for so long it becomes sick or something.

Thanks for all the responses!
Brock

I have keepen mine aorund my neck for up to two hours before he gets bored and so do I, your body temp is often enough to keep them out for as long as you want, I find when they get cold, they will start to look for heat. For instance, when I do homework and he starts geting cold he goes for my laptop keyboard.

Ok, thanks.

And a night bulb isn't necessary if I have a CHE right? I'm currently just using ambient room light for the tank's lighting, but I may switch to a flourescent fixture or another clamp lamp if ambience doesn't seem to suffice.

I am not expert on lighting but I have heard that ambient room light almost always suffices. I run red heat lamps 24/7 and thats all.

The clamp lamp that I bought has a glow in the dark reflector, but I doubt it'll be very bright, and glow in the dark stuff usually loses it's intensity after about 30 minutes of darkness. We'll see though.

I'm so excited to get it this week. I'm planning on either Tuesday or Wednesday, provided everything in the tank is set up, and temperatures are correct by then.

Anyone know what wattage CHE I would need to raise the ambient tank temperature of a 30 gallon to about 85*F? I'm using a 60 watt, and i'm not sure it'll be enough. I'll have to check once I get the lid and everything, but it doesn't really kick out heat like I thought it would.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ride_gnu

Oh sorry about that. Argenta mentioned placing the Temp. Probe right on top of the glass, under all the substrate, I would not reccomend this becuase with even a 1/2" I find that the temperature can differ by around 5 degrees farenhiet.

Dimmer I do suggest.

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Wrong wrong wrong. :colbert:

ALWAYS place the temp probe directly on the glass since you never know when your snake will burrow down and then get burned by the hot glass.

Your snake doesn't need gobs of substrate and so the heat difference will likely be negligible.

Ok, so I keep the probe ON the bottom glass, because it'll likely be about the same as the substrate, and I don't want it to burrow down and possibly be burned, so i'll know when to dim it down?

I think I got it all.

It's all pretty overwhelming, but it'll seem really really simple once I get it all set up and working properly. I just need to tinker with it until i've got it right.

:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brock Fluharty

Ok, so I keep the probe ON the bottom glass, because it'll likely be about the same as the substrate, and I don't want it to burrow down and possibly be burned, so i'll know when to dim it down?

I think I got it all.

It's all pretty overwhelming, but it'll seem really really simple once I get it all set up and working properly. I just need to tinker with it until i've got it right.

:D

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Totally. It really is pretty simple to get the basics down and then, you're right, it's just the fine tuning!

Regarding other things: Ball pythons don't need any supplemental lighting; natural room lighting is enough for them to differentiate between daytime and night time. They do best with approx 12 hours of each. If you want a light near or in the cage, that's fine and it often times helps with seeing during cleaning!

In terms of ambient temps, lots of people using tanks wrap their tank in hard foam or rigid insulation- tanks lose heat very quickly!! Lots of people also cover the tops of the tank (at least part way) with foil or plexi; this help hold the humidity and also helps with heat loss.

Also, when you get your new snake, leave it alone in its new cage for a week or two, only getting into the environment when you do water changes, etc. Most people wait to feed for a week or two also since this helps to reduce the stress that your snake will feel.

As for holding the snake, ball pythons are typically timid creatures and when they start to become antsy it is an early sign of stress- he needs to go back to his home. When you are holding the snake or having it around your neck, remember that your body temp is very warm for him. He will need a cooler zone after a while.

Also, if you're using the dimmer, watch it very carefully and take the temps a lot. Unless the room that the snake is in does not vary by more than a degree or two, most people report that the dimmers are tricky. Do you have a temp gun? This is a most helpful tool!!

Lastly, when you are doing all of these husbandry 'chores', remember why you are learning all of these things and what you are doing all of this for-- in other words, have fun!!! :D

The tank is sitting on a coffee table in my room, so i'll probably just put a short lamp beside the tank eventually.

Once I find a screen lid of appropriate size, i'm going to foil treat it. I was thinking of also wrapping the tank sides in foil, but i'm not sure if this would overheat it, or if it's safe.

Ok, so no handling while he gets adjusted to the new tank and new surroundings.

No, I don't have a temperature gun, but i'll probably get one sometime. I'm trying to buy the bare essentials right now so that I don't end up spending too much cash. :P

So tonight when I go to work i'm going to pick up 1 more hide, and i'll probably end up fabricating a screen lid out of wood trim and chicken wire...lol.

How would I efficiently foil treat the lid? It seems pretty self explanatory, but if anyone had any tips/tricks i'd really appreciate them! :)

Thanks for the help!
Brock

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

Wrong wrong wrong. :colbert:

ALWAYS place the temp probe directly on the glass since you never know when your snake will burrow down and then get burned by the hot glass.

Your snake doesn't need gobs of substrate and so the heat difference will likely be negligible.

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Geuss I was wrong, good point though.

I was thinking with regards to the dimmer, how plausible would it be to hook up two dimmers, one on cool and hot side, each dimmer powering the heat lamp and the UTH together? This would be the best way I could think to maintain constant temperatures, and the cheapest.