Scared To Death My Snake Has IBD - My Collection?

Hello, all. I am a newcomer, as you can see, I do believe this is my first post on this forum, and am glad to be here, lots of good resources. Nonetheless, I believe that my female BP has IBD... She was a rescue, and we've had her for about 4 months (she was our first snake). When we first got into snakes, we were never warned about IBD, nor had we even heard of it. So unfortunately, none of our snakes have gone through a quarantine process. About 1 week ago, we noticed that she had almost completely stopped using her neck, which of course, we found odd. This started about 1-2 days after her last feed, and during her last feed, she got to the hip of the rat, and basically fell over for a minute, and stopped swallowing, then just comes back up, and finishes. Eve (my female BP) was an LPS/rescue snake. When we got her, she had what looked like 2-3 small burns on her head, and a permanently dented eye cap (we have tried raising humidity, soaking, etc) and the eye cap is not stuck from a previous shed. As of today, she started doing a "cork screw" thing with her head, and as of about 5-10 minutes ago, having head tremors. Her body still has strength up to her neck, just before a scar. The scar was from when we first got her, we were just holding her one day, and this piece of skin just came off with a gentle rub, literally no pressure, and it didn't look abnormal. When I found her on her back earlier, it also looked like her cloaca was protruding. I called a friend, he asked if she had any lesions, and I said no, and he told me not to worry, that it was not IBD if she had no lesions, or mouth rot. I cleaned all my cages, and separated all the snakes, so each one is in his/her own room now. I'm scared because I'm afraid Eve (my gf's snake) will have given this IBD or whatever ailment it may be to Adam (my male BP) or Pandora (my newly acquired Dumeril's Boa). Eve has always had an attitude, and a big one, whereas Adam is the coolest, calmest snake I have ever handled/owned, and I would be absolutely devastated to lose him, or any of them, including Eve. My temp/humid always stays 40%-50% and 84-86 ambient, and 89 hot spot for the BPs. I am trying to figure out what to do, as I have no vet locally that will see a reptile except for one, and he didn't even know what IBD was! I read that you can have a blood test done to look for something (not sure exactly what) that goes along with IBD, but only a tissue sample in a necropsy will determine 100% what is going on. If anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated, I know that no one here can cure IBD if that's it, but ideas/possibilities would be great. Thanks again.

-Brandon

IBD kills BP within weeks so it is very unlikely that if your BP has indeed IBD she contracted it prior to being in your possessions!

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Pandora (my newly acquired Dumeril's Boa).

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How long have you had your Boa for? (Boas can be asymptomatic carrier)

As your male BP shown any symptoms?

Could your female BP been in contact with any type of chemicals?

Could the enclosure have overheat for a prolong amount of time?

We have had Eve for 4 months now, and I just got Pandora 4 days ago. Eve has not been exposed to any chemicals, the cage hasn't overheated, not has my male shown any symptoms (yet, at least).

I really am not sure what is wrong. I would be very careful. Moving the snake to another room is a good idea. have you brought any new snakes in, in the last month. ball pythons typically cant live very long with ibd from what i have read, about a month. Im lost. I have had a snake demonstrate those traits recently unfortunately she passed away. After having a necropsy it had turned out to be toxic shock from bad feeders. We had already found out about the feeders before she had passed. I hope yours turns out better than ours. I will keep you in my thoughts.

The only way to rule OUT IBD is a brain tissue biopsy. Otherwise, a blood test can come out negetive for IBD, but it might not be in the blood.. you can get a liver biopsy, but it might not be in the liver, etc etc.
If your snakes are together for longer than say.. 2 months, then I'd suspect something other than IBD, as ball pythons really don't survive very long when exposed.

Just the Dumeril's Boa, 4 days ago, and that's it. My friend suggested the toxic shock, but the feeders always come from his brother's pet store (which I am beginning to question) but it is odd, considering that it all started soon after her last feeding, and neither of my other's feedings were from the same batch. I'm sorry for your loss shadi11, and I thank you.

Wofly, I have only had Adam (male BP) for about 2 months, and no symptoms coming from him.

My first thought was that it could be from the Dumeril's Boa, but I don't know if 4 days is long enough for your ball python to be cork screwing it was idb.

Well, if all else fails, take it to the vet!

We can't see what's going on, but a vet might be able to determine from experience. Go ask a professionals opinion.

I don't believe it was from the Dumeril's, honestly, she's a very healthy snake. The only vet here that sees snakes, doesn't know what IBD is.

Palpitate her down near her vent. perhaps there is something impacted. How is her skin color on the underside especially her head?

I have a sick little hatchling that I had to help pass a large urate that was blocking the vent. I believe it was causing toxic shock. her skin was going yellow and she had the head cork screw and was very weak..

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Originally Posted by immortalic

I don't believe it was from the Dumeril's, honestly, she's a very healthy snake. The only vet here that sees snakes, doesn't know what IBD is.

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Boa's are carriers for IBD. I have heard that some breeders expose ball pythons to the boas in quarantine and if the ball python dies the boa has IBD.

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Originally Posted by immortalic

I don't believe it was from the Dumeril's, honestly, she's a very healthy snake. The only vet here that sees snakes, doesn't know what IBD is.

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Sorry dude...you can't tell whether a snake has IBD just by looking at it. Your best bet is to find a qualified vet.

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Originally Posted by immortalic

I don't believe it was from the Dumeril's, honestly, she's a very healthy snake. The only vet here that sees snakes, doesn't know what IBD is.

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Boas can be asymptomatic carriers of IDB. They can live for years without showing signs of having it. I'm not saying this is the case, but It's possible.

I realize that boas can be asymptomatic carriers, but the guy I got her from has BPs and does absolutely no quarantine process, and all of his are perfectly healthy. Not only that, he was keeping her at his brother's pet store (where no one can handle her) and the baby BPs, and the Burm were also healthy. The palpitating didn't work, I will try again in the morning, also, her stomach is the normal fair-white. I also realize that I can't look at her and tell if it's IBD, just like I can't look at a snake and tell you the sex. I'm just hoping for the best, honestly, I'd hate to see any of them pass.

Also, if this is indeed IBD, and my other snakes have been exposed, how soon should I expect symptoms? I realize that it can take considerably longer with a Boa, what about my BP?

Hi,

Just to try and rule other possible causes out;

Has the pet store been treating for mites or anything on or near the feeders?

What kind of bedding do you keep the sick snake on and have you changed it lately?

Have you double and triple checked the temps in the enclosure with a reliable digital thermometer in the place the snake actually lies ( i.e. inside the hides)?

Also, if he was keeping the boa at the pet store then the fact it was previously kept with BP's means very little as it has just been possibly exposed to a whole pet stores worth of parasites and diseases. Did the pet store get any new animals in lately and are any of them ill? I ask because that also makes the health of their baby BP's and burmese at the time of limited use - but how they are now is still important so I would ask.

It might be possible to get the vet near you to go read up on the various parasites and diseases that can lead to similar symptoms - also getting a parasite check done might be wise. If the worst happens and you lose the sick one I would definately think it would be worth the money to get a necropsy done to see if you need to take any steps to protect everything else.

Best wishes.


dr del

The incubation period for IBD is unknown--it can range from just a few weeks, to a few months in pythons--usually several months at least in boas.

It's absolutely crucial to quarantine all of the snakes away from each other if you suspect it. It's transmitted by droplets and contact, so extreme attention to hygiene, and seperation, might save some of your other snakes if it IS IBD. Nothing from one cage must touch another--nothing that touches one snake should touch another or its cage before being sterilized. It is highly contagious. IBD is 100% fatal in snakes showing symptoms. If your snake doesn't show signs of recovering quickly from whatever event has caused the neurological symptoms, you should probably have it euthanized, order a necropsy, and disinfect absolutely everything. Avoid visiting others who have snakes until you can rule out IBD--you don't want to pass it to their collection.

Also, your friend doesn't know what he's talking about. IBD symptoms do not include mouth rot or lesions. They only include neurological signs, and loss of appetite in pythons. In boas, regurgitation can also be a symptom.

The sick snake was on RepitBark, and is now on paper towels, the ReptiBark was almost brand new when she got sick, and was clean. The pet store was using HotShot to treat for mites, on a snake that I once owned (6 1/2 foot Red Tail Boa), but was not near the feeders. I checked temperatures with an analog thermo/hydro combo, 3 times daily. They had just gotten in 2 cb BP babies, one of which was just extremely tempermental, but the health of the Burm, and all the BPs are excellent as of now, I just ot off the phone with him. Also, how much would a necropsy generally cost? I figure that I would have to send her body off for it. All snakes are quarantined atm, and everything is disinfected with a 10:1 water/bleach solution. No one, literally no one, around here has ever had a problem with IBD, ever. So none of us here really know much about it, except for what I have read on the internet about it. Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

What is the active ingredient in Hot Shot? I know it's a pesticide, but I didn't think it was safe to use around animals - at least not the one I'm thinking of. I guess there may be more formulations. Either way, it sounds to me like you need to find a different source of feeders.

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Originally Posted by immortalic

The sick snake was on RepitBark, and is now on paper towels, the ReptiBark was almost brand new when she got sick, and was clean. The pet store was using HotShot to treat for mites, on a snake that I once owned (6 1/2 foot Red Tail Boa), but was not near the feeders. I checked temperatures with an analog thermo/hydro combo, 3 times daily. They had just gotten in 2 cb BP babies, one of which was just extremely tempermental, but the health of the Burm, and all the BPs are excellent as of now, I just ot off the phone with him. Also, how much would a necropsy generally cost? I figure that I would have to send her body off for it. All snakes are quarantined atm, and everything is disinfected with a 10:1 water/bleach solution. No one, literally no one, around here has ever had a problem with IBD, ever. So none of us here really know much about it, except for what I have read on the internet about it. Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

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Use digital it does not cost that much and is very well worth the money you will spend. I promis you I love my digital ones. I also bought an IR temp gun and I love it payed about $50 for it but you can find them cheaper I just liked that one.

i am so very sorry to hear about your snake being sick. My thoughts will be with you and your snakes. Please keep us updated. Good luck my friend and welcome to BPnet sorry it is on such a sad note. :(

I plan to switch to digital once I have the money. I'm not sure what the active ingredient is, but I know a lot of people will put a strip on top of a cage to treat for mites without any adverse affects (of course only on the cage 3 days off 4). Thank you, hoax.

Hot sauce are you serious, WTF !!!!!hot sauce can cause chemical burns on skin if left on long enough. Which I am sure by default makes it dangerous to breath in. wait so they don't treat the snake with it directly or what.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

Hot sauce are you serious, WTF !!!!!hot sauce can cause chemical burns on skin if left on long enough. Which I am sure by default makes it dangerous to breath in. wait so they don't treat the snake with it directly or what.

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Hot shot and hot sauce are usually way different in my world, maybe double read stuff before you jump into making statements

hot sauce and hot shot are definately 2 different things... when using hot shot to treat for mites, you place a strip of it on top of the cage for 3 days, off 4 days, on 3 days, off 4 days, and so on, until your mites are gone... some people will put the hot shot on for like 3 hours a day until they are gone, how effective that it is, I'm not sure. Trust me, I would never let anyone put hot sauce around a snake, or any animal for that matter.

Or you use Provent A Mite and NOT kill the animal. No-Pest strips have been known to cause neurologic disorders, seizures as well as death.

Pay a bit more and treat your snake with something proven to be safe. No-Pest strips and Hot Shot is NOT.

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Originally Posted by Fearless

Hot shot and hot sauce are usually way different in my world, maybe double read stuff before you jump into making statements

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my bad there buddy please forgive my misread of the post, and thanks for straightening me out.:)

Provent-a-Mite didn't work with my snakes, and I was told to use the HotShot only for a 3 day cycle to keep from causing neurological disorder.

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Originally Posted by immortalic

Provent-a-Mite didn't work with my snakes, and I was told to use the HotShot only for a 3 day cycle to keep from causing neurological disorder.

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If it didn't work, you probably didn't use it correctly or continue to use it.

I've seen nothing but success when you follow the directions perfectly.

Hi,

Where did you use it in relation to the sick snake and the others who are unaffected? Did you leave the water bowls in the tanks that were being treated? How many animals/ cages did you treat?

I'm surprised to hear PAM didn't work as most people say it has been extremely effective.


dr del

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Originally Posted by immortalic

Provent-a-Mite didn't work with my snakes, and I was told to use the HotShot only for a 3 day cycle to keep from causing neurological disorder.

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Yeah I believe that this is the first time that I have heard of P.A.M not working. Just spray the enclosure and hide with it (water bowl and snake removed of course. Repeat about once a month (I think thats the interval can't member :weirdface)

If you use hotshot you will more then likey have some dead snakes. Please read and follow every direction on the PAM can. PAM does work when it is used right.

I didn't understand why it didn't work either, honestly, but that was when I first started keeping snakes (the sick snake is the first snake that we acquired) though the place where we got her, is questionable. I bought a baby RTB for my birthday, and she constantly regurged everything (showed no other possible signs of IBD) and eventually passed away, even when an advanced keeper tried to take care of her, he regurged everything. The place uses heat rocks, walnut/cob bedding, doesn't even pay attention to temps/humidity, nothing. They were feeding a 6 ft RTB a medium rat every three days. Granted, remember, this was where I first got into snakes, and first bought a snake, and now I know better, and will also no longer be using HotShot. As an update, Eve is no better, no worse. The vet won't see her until next week, I even tried to do the "emergency" thing, he won't let me bring her (I have never liked this vet anyways, wanted 100 dollars to probe one snake, rediculous...). So I am in the process of looking for another vet close enough for me to take her to.

Umm... regurging IS a sign that is linked to IBD. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE try to get your snake in to the vet before next week. Next week may just be to late. Also where are you loccted at, members here knows of some good herp vets all over the place. I'm sure we could find you a good one.

$100 to probe a snake? I'd probe a snake for only $99.95!!
I hope she recovers. It would be best for you to start looking up some reputable people to talk to about any of your husbandry issues that might arise. Then you know that you can get correct information.
People like NERD and 8BallPythons are helpful knowledgable folks to get snakes AND advice from. I hope that you can get a decent vet too someday.

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Originally Posted by immortalic

Also, how much would a necropsy generally cost?

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When I had one of my snakes sent away for a necropsy it was $260.

I understand that regurging is linked to IBD, but she had no other signs, which may still not rule out IBD, but then again, I could be wrong. I'm located in Bluefield, WV 24701. The vet I was talking about really is a... I shouldn't bash people. But nonetheless, I will keep checking. There really is no way that I can afford a $260 bill for a necropsy, I don't even have a job right now, they're too hard to come by around here, I got laid off 2 months ago, and I have gotten nowhere with my search. I'm hoping for the best, hopefully this will all work out.

hi there! I'm really sorry to hear about what's going on with your BP. unfortunately, i have no idea what to tell you on this one. however, i strongly suggest considering driving a littler further out of your way to see a vet that knows that he's talking about. even just calling another vet and asking some questions about what's going on may help point you in the right direction. good luck with everything; you guys are in my thoughts.

Just a thought and this may help you and others out very well when an emergancy springs up and money is tight. I keep 2 credit cards hidden and don't touch them unless my animals need vet care. They have come to my animals rescues more then once in the last few years.

I wish I had credit cards that I could do that with, I only have one. I'm only 18 and can't really get approved very easily.

After a little searching these are some herp vets I came up with that are located in VA/WV

West Virginia
Dr Miller 304-336-7300

Fairfax
Dr. Scott Stahl
111 Center St S
Vienna, VA 22180-5746
Ph. 703-281-3750
Recommended by chelonian keepers at the "Vets_For_Herps" list serve


*****DR Stahl is one of the best herp vets on the east coast*****

Roanoke (SW Virginia)
Paul Stewart
Valley Animal Hospital
Roanoke, Va.
(540) 366-3433

Waynesboro
Wildlife Center of Virginia
P.O. Box 1557
Waynesboro, VA 22980
(540) 942 - WILD
wildlife@wildlifecenter.org
Recommended by chelonian keepers at the "Vets_For_Herps" list serve

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

The incubation period for IBD is unknown--it can range from just a few weeks, to a few months in pythons--usually several months at least in boas.

It's absolutely crucial to quarantine all of the snakes away from each other if you suspect it. It's transmitted by droplets and contact, so extreme attention to hygiene, and seperation, might save some of your other snakes if it IS IBD. Nothing from one cage must touch another--nothing that touches one snake should touch another or its cage before being sterilized. It is highly contagious. IBD is 100% fatal in snakes showing symptoms. If your snake doesn't show signs of recovering quickly from whatever event has caused the neurological symptoms, you should probably have it euthanized, order a necropsy, and disinfect absolutely everything. Avoid visiting others who have snakes until you can rule out IBD--you don't want to pass it to their collection.

Also, your friend doesn't know what he's talking about. IBD symptoms do not include mouth rot or lesions. They only include neurological signs, and loss of appetite in pythons. In boas, regurgitation can also be a symptom.

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Pythons can show signs running from stomatitis to scale rot to respiratory infections to septicemia to sarocmas, etc.
Pythons can also hold out for months with this disease.

So....you were laid off two months ago, correct? And then about a week ago, you brought a new snake into your home. So after two months of zero income, you thought the best thing to do was put more of a financial load onto yourself? And now, your snake is sick, and you can't afford care. Make some smarter decisions in the future man. Come on.

My new snake was actually a gift/rescue. He could no longer take care of her, and there wasn't anyone around here he wanted to give her to, except for me, and I couldn't give him money for her, so he just gave her to me.

Thank you, lilyorchid, I will be contacting these vets to see what can be done.

I just got off the phone with Dr. Stahl, and they said that I could overnite her to them if I wanted, and they would do an examination, and determine from there what to do, and whether they thought it was IBD or not. They also said that with the symptoms she is showing, that basically no matter what it is, her chance of survival is basically non-existant. So, I'm trying to decide what to do, whether euthanizing without an exam would be the best choice for this snake, since shipping would be very stressful on the snake, and so would the 6 hour drive. Plus cost of shipping, exam, treatment/euthanazia. I'm really unsure about what to do at this point. Any one have any suggestions?

Don't you want to know regardless of the possible outcomes?

Remember there are 2 other snakes at stakes here, since you do not practice quarantine!

All snakes are quarantined now, I had never heard of something like this until it happened, unfortunately. I also don't really have the money, this could easily go upwards of $500.

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Originally Posted by immortalic

All snakes are quarantined now, I had never heard of something like this until it happened, unfortunately. I also don't really have the money, this could easily go upwards of $500.

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A bit to late for quarentine now and you obviously have already made up your mind :rolleyes:

If any of those snakes were in the same room or even in the same building with the same ventilation system, they have been possibly exposed to whatever your one snake has. It's a little late to quarantine now if they have been anywhere near each other.

Like MiniJ said.... this probably wasn't the best thing to do for the sake of the sick and possibly other sick snakes. Pet ownership is a major responsibility specially when it comes down to being able to afford vet care when something should happen. Just because it was a "gift" doesn't make it OK to take it in when you know you are jobless. Also no pet is "free" by any means. They ALL cost us money.

I'm sorry but you have made some super poor decisions and should have read up on BP's and Boas back before you got one. If I were you I'd do my best to try to save the other ones you have, but you seem defiant on any help that have been given to you that cost a penny or more. Vet care is NOT free, pets are NOT free. People on this site are not vets but are willing to help others when problems do come up on finding a vet. All we can do is try to help you and point you in the right direction, YOU must then take it upon yourself to follow up and do the right thing. We can't just snap our fingers and tell so and so's snake to get better.