Being paranoid about my collection

While this does not relate directly to ball pythons per say, it does directly relate to my paranoia for my collection of bally pythons...

I am posting this to a lot of different forums. I am just wondering if I am being paranoid. I went to a local exotic pet store. They are a very well known store in the area, nothing but good things about them being said. It was my first time at the store, and I absolutely was astounded with their collection of animals, the knowledge of their reptile manager, the care they take of their animals etc. Astounded, that is, up until the end.

I noticed a Cali king that was freaking out in one of the cages, moving around VERY rapidly. He almost looked as if he were twitching, and sorta rubbing or flipping over to his side. We brought it up to one of the employees, and she went to find out about it. She comes back shortly after saying "Oh thats inclusion body disease, its not a big deal, its nothing really to worry about. It can cause a head wobble in ball pythons." Now I know what IBD is, and as far as I know there has been one recorded case outside of a boa or python, so the chances of it being IBD are VERY remote. The way she acted about it though ticked me off and scared me. We immediately left and called the reptile manager. He told me that the person had only been there for two weeks (and as much as i could tell by the way she acted this was true)This is not a store that imports most of its animals, they breed a lot of them. I was looking to buy a VERY nice striped ghost corn and mex. black king snake from them. Instead as I said, we immediately left, and I went home, threw my cloths in the washer and showered. I know I was probably being too paranoid, but what do you all think?

And what else besides the latter stages of IBD can cause those symptoms? Toxins I know, and thats about it. I don't know kings as well as pythons and corns, would a king get that spastic over getting ready to shed? Was he trying to find something to rub on?
Should I have bought the other snakes anyway because the chances of it being something other than toxins or birth defect, or over heating, would be fairly remote.

I've not heard of IBD being involved with colubrids, but I am far from an expert on the subject. I imagine that any number of things could cause those symptoms ranging from toxins to a sick snake. I wouldn't say you were paranoid, or if you are I would have been right along with you. I would probably be spraying my car down just in case too. :oops:

You may not want to rely on a new employee, but I wouldn't totally dismiss what they said either. I would go back in a couple days and check to see how that animal is fairing. If it was missing or supposedly sold I would hold off on purchasing anything from them myself.

I wish I could give you more actual info instead of just my gut reaction. :oops:

They actually were going to pull it into the back, so no telling what happens back there. It totally sucks, I finally find my mex. black king snake.

It is in other species. I will look for the document.

I would run if someone said IBD, that is the worst possible thing you could ever want near your collection

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tigerlily

I've not heard of IBD being involved with colubrids, but I am far from an expert on the subject. I imagine that any number of things could cause those symptoms ranging from toxins to a sick snake. I wouldn't say you were paranoid, or if you are I would have been right along with you. I would probably be spraying my car down just in case too. :oops:

You may not want to rely on a new employee, but I wouldn't totally dismiss what they said either. I would go back in a couple days and check to see how that animal is fairing. If it was missing or supposedly sold I would hold off on purchasing anything from them myself.

I wish I could give you more actual info instead of just my gut reaction. :oops:

---

Agreed

You always take a risk buying from a shop. That is why hobbiest breeders that you know and trust are so crucial to our hobby. I would go with the snake getting overheated before I would jump to some form of a infectious disease that manifests it self like IBD in colubrids. That is why I make no quams paying a little more for my animal and building relationships with the breeders I want to work with. I am not sure you are being too paranoid but I think you have to take a retail store for what they are and you alway take a risk of picking up something bad from a place that has no quarantine procedures in place, know what I mean.

Chuck

According to the latest Reptiles mag...

"Catching an Insidious Killer" by Elliott Jacobson, PH.D., DVM, DACZM

Quote:

---

An unconfirmed disease resembling IBD also was diagnosed in an eastern kingsnake (Lampropeltis g. getula) housed with boa constrictors...

---

But also:

Quote:

---

Remember that the clinical signs seen in snakes with IBD can be quite similar to signs of other snake diseases. Signs alone do not allow someone to make a specific diagnosis.

---

Just some interesting info.

It was diagnoised in a kingsnake and in vipers. "Syndromes closely resembling inclusion body disease have occasionally been diagnosed in ‘non-Boidae’. A case in young corn snakes (Pantherophis guttatus guttatus, family Colubridae) was described by Fleming and others (2003), and a histological examination revealed eosinophilic intracytoplasmic
inclusions, but no retrovirus-like particles were found by electron microscopy."

Source: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/doortiz2/www/IBD.pdf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chuck

Agreed

You always take a risk buying from a shop. That is why hobbiest breeders that you know and trust are so crucial to our hobby. I would go with the snake getting overheated before I would jump to some form of a infectious disease that manifests it self like IBD in colubrids. That is why I make no quams paying a little more for my animal and building relationships with the breeders I want to work with. I am not sure you are being too paranoid but I think you have to take a retail store for what they are and you alway take a risk of picking up something bad from a place that has no quarantine procedures in place, know what I mean.

Chuck

---

Keep in mind, this is a retail store that breeds their own animals. They just happen to have a store front. However, I do see what you are saying. Being fairly new to the hobby though, I really don't know who is reputable and who is not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stormwulf133

Keep in mind, this is a retail store that breeds their own animals. They just happen to have a store front. However, I do see what you are saying. Being fairly new to the hobby though, I really don't know who is reputable and who is not.

---

Are all the animals in that store bred by them if not, which I would bet is the case it makes no difference that they breed there own animals.

As far as their snakes go, i believe so yes.

wow IBD nothin to worry about , when she said that you shoulda belittled the crap outa her till she apologized for being ignorant and pretending to sound like she knows what she,s talkin about, imo you did the right thing to wash your clothes and shower and whatever else you coulda done to be safe
there are very few people into snakes, and in such a small community it has the potential to become a pandemic as in you got ot a rpetile show and can quickly spread a sick snake s problems to literlly everyone and thing in the room

The first thing I would have checked, seeing behavior like that, is the heating--it sounds like something extreme overheating would cause, particularly the rapid movement.

Five'll getcha ten the snake had mites.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stormwulf133

As far as their snakes go, i believe so yes.

---

Well that would support the idea that it wasn't some sort of pathogen and more likely another issue.

The fact is that we can speculate on what was wrong with that animal all we want and I am not so much into jumping on the smear bandwagon without some proof. No doubt the IBD comment was not only a rush to judgment but the manner it was said shows her lack of understanding of what she is doing. I don't think you can judge a whole store based on that despite how easy that would be to do, it would raise my red flag and I wouldn't do business with them on GP.