Hide or no Hide (or no brainer?)

I'm curious if many of you use a hidebox, have some partial shade/hide, or use nothing in your BP enclosure.

After a few weeks, I took the simple cardboard-box hide I made out of the enclosure. My snake had spent the better part of the week inside of it, and many more hours besides. As I have a nice glass-wall enclosure, only one snake, and want to show him off a little it was considerably annoying that he didn't want to show his face at all!

I have a young snake, so I thought he had better get used to the movement of one or two people outside his cage. He's already acclimated fine to the new environment and fed recently before I removed the box, and after.

For the most part, he seems to do fine, so apart from a difficult shed and a recent refusal to eat, he's doing well, moving around and laying stretched out along a log. Need I worry about putting a hide in at this point?

BPs MUST HAVE A HIDE. It is very important that they have a hide. Most people have at least one full hide, the majority have two hides one on the cool end and one on the warm end. I have three one in the cool one in the warm and one in the middle. If you wanted a display pet you got the wrong pet. BP love to hide they want to be all snuggled up in a tiny tiny hole. I can assure you that the majority of people will not be happy to see that a BP has no hides. I was new to this and had a little half log hide and a bunch of other junk that just wasnt worth having. Pleas read the care sheet and follow it to a T. Now I know that there are people with tubs that only have one hide. but the majority of people have two or more hides.

Please don't take this as me being rude or yelling.It is just important to the mental health of the snake to be able to hide.

I have a boa. 90% of the time he lies visible, but occassionally he decides to use the hide. Let the snake make the choice. Leave a hide in there. When he wants to use it, he can. Better for the health of the critter

So, you removed the hide for your pleasure, because you couldn't see him? What about HIS needs? He can't tell you what he needs, he has to depend on you to provide that for him.

Not only should he have one hide, he should have two - one on the warm side and one on the cool side of the enclosure.

Ball pythons do not lay out in the open in Africa. By nature they are very shy animals who spend the bulk of their days in termite mounds and rodent burrows. They desire to feel something touching them on all sides to feel safe and secure.

If you were wanting a display snake, a ball python was the wrong choice.

I have a similar issue with my fish. I have two South American cichlids. I didn't realize how big they would get or how expensive their food was compared to gold fish food. So I started feeding them goldfish food. So far they are doing great though aside from seaming sluggish and maybe a bit bloated. I think I have the tank about perfect the only thing is that the filter and airator are a bit loud. I am thinking about turning them off so that its a bit quieter.

Seriously though, bad bad bad move. You answer your own question. You removed the hide and now you have a problem with your snake refusing to feed. Hmmm, if only there were some well known reasons why a BP will refuse to feed.

Another issue with BP is regurgitation. Your snake is not going to feed well unless it feels safe. In the wild if a snake does feed and later feels threatened they will regurgitate in order to lighten up so they can make a hasty escape.

Its been said many times on this forum. Its called animal husbandry for a reason. You are the husband in all this and as any husband will tell you its not all fun and games. Its a lot of hard work and very little pay out. The good news is that you learn to take great joy in the little things. I for one get a little nervous when my BP is out of her hide during the day. My first thought is "whats wrong". Please please put the hide back.

Okay, I want you to think about it like this. Imagine the enclosure that your BP is in, as it's world and the hide, as it's home. You would not feel very secure if someone kicked you out of your home and forced you to live on the streets. Sure you would eat and sleep. But I bet money your physical and mental health would suffer terribly. I vote put the hides back. If you want to show off your BP, simply lift the hide and take a look or take him/her out. :D

ok, forget about anything told to you about not having a hide in the cage. These animals are reclusive. They spend most of the time in rodent burrows in central Africa. you want to essentially simulate those conditions for the comfort of the animal. if that doesn't happen it could feel out of its comfort zone and will be stressed. Picture it this way, you are in a big glass aquarium, and these HUGE things are always around you and looking at you, picking you up, etc... But you had no where to go or hide. You always felt uneasy because you never knew when these monsters would come and get you and there was no HOPE in getting away. You are always stressed.

Wow! I can't possibly come up with a better analogy than those before me. So I'll just say....put the hide back.

Robbin

"My snake absolutely LOVES his hide. Spends all day in it. It's his perfect little home! So...I threw it away."


A couple other questions about your setup, Carl.
What are you using as a heat source?
How are you controlling said heat?
What are your temps/humidity range?

No brainer....BP's need at least 1 hide, but 2 is better - 1 for the warm side and 1 for the cool side.
PLEASE put the hide back in :please:
BP's really need that feeling of security.

The question should have read, "What type of hide should I use?" The reason is that the people you are asking may not keep their ball pythons in the same type of enclosure as you.

I do not use hides for my ball pythons, but I also do not keep them in glass aquariums either. I keep mine in rack systems.

If a ball python is kept in a glass enclosure, then it most definitely needs a place to hide.

My snakes in the rack system all get one hide and all of them use their hide.
My snakes in RBI cages all get two hides (one on the warm end and one on the cool end) and they all use both of their hides.
Of my three boas, one uses her hide sometimes and the other two never use a hide.
Conclusion: Always provide a hide and since your awesome set-up is on the larger side, I would offer two hides.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlthuringer

For the most part, he seems to do fine, so apart from a difficult shed and a recent refusal to eat, he's doing well, moving around and laying stretched out along a log. Need I worry about putting a hide in at this point?

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a difficult shed and refusal to eat are indicators of a snake that may not be doing so "fine". your ball python needs a hide or else these indicators may get worse until you cant do anything about it. youre going to have to accept that ball pythons are not the best display snakes and that they will hide all day and come out at night. its pretty much a no brainer to include a couple hiding spots inside the enclosure so i would put them back in and then read a few ball python caresheets and books.

Few things here

You need to do some research and understand what your animal needs are

You need to put your animal needs before yours

You need to reconsider whether or not you own a snake for the right reason?

Quote:

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As I have a nice glass-wall enclosure, only one snake, and want to show him off a little it was considerably annoying that he didn't want to show his face at all!

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Owning a snake to be cool or to show it off without caring about it's need or well-being is selfish to say the least. http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...icons/Rant.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlthuringer

I'm curious if many of you use a hidebox, have some partial shade/hide, or use nothing in your BP enclosure.

After a few weeks, I took the simple cardboard-box hide I made out of the enclosure. My snake had spent the better part of the week inside of it, and many more hours besides. As I have a nice glass-wall enclosure, only one snake, and want to show him off a little it was considerably annoying that he didn't want to show his face at all!

I have a young snake, so I thought he had better get used to the movement of one or two people outside his cage. He's already acclimated fine to the new environment and fed recently before I removed the box, and after.

For the most part, he seems to do fine, so apart from a difficult shed and a recent refusal to eat, he's doing well, moving around and laying stretched out along a log. Need I worry about putting a hide in at this point?

---

YES YOU NEED TO WORRY!!!!!!! Ball Pythons are burrowing snakes. They are happiest when they are hiding! Put a real hide box in there or your snake's health is gunna go down hill like it sounds like it already has. If you want a snake that would be out and about active you picked the wrong species. I suggest 2 hideboxes, some fake plants, and if you are using an old aquarium to cover three of the four walls with paper. If your not going to listen I would say that you need to give your snakie to someone on here that cares about the well being and mental health of the animal instead of themselves first. If you want a snake for show your best bet is a plastic snake. I implore you to give your snake what it needs, and I guarentee that you will have a better relationship with your snake because of it. I'm sorry for getting a bit defensive but one of my greatest pet peeves is when people think of themselves before their snake and or don't bother to research untill their brain starts leaking before bringing home a snake. I really really hope you will make the right choice.:gj::please:

Did I just read that post?

Am I dreaming?

QUICK! SOMEONE POKE ME!


... sigh

Yes .. give him his home back, for the love of ..

The only place I wouldn't use a hide is in a rack system. In a vivarium or large cage, I would definitely give the snake his choice of many different hides.

How long have you had the snake? I guess only a few weeks. It takes them a little bit to feel secure in a hide, and will sometimes prefer to squish themselves between the waterbowl and glass, or something else that is tight... even though it's not your hide.

That behavior is them using a hide, even though it's not the conventional one you provided, at the time they obviously felt safer squished or next to the wall because they need to feel something surrounding them and touching them.

Alright, folks. I did go to the store today and buy two smallish hides because I was anticipating a reaction somewhat like this.

But I think I should argue that owning a pet is a relationship. If the owner isn't happy, then how can he care to keep the snake happy? I noted that after I'd removed the hide he did feed twice with no real problems, though I still had it on hand if he refused to eat. Since there seemed to be no poor reaction, then I didn't replace it.

Other information:

The tank is a medium-sized tank, about 2.5' long with an open mesh top. I use a UV fluorescent fixture on the left 2/3 and have a ceramic fixture with an infrared bulb in it on the right. The pet store people said the UV was necessary. Too late to return it. I run it on a timer, 10 hours of light, 14 of night.
Below the bulb is a heating pad that reaches from front to back of teh cage, about 10" wide. A glass thermometer shows the temperature under the light at 95~ degrees. The middle of the tank is about 75-80 depending on ambient temperature and the far side is a bit cooler than that, around 71.
I have to take the thermometer out. It's a metal sort that hangs over the lip of the cage and my BP likes climbing on it during escape attempts, resulting in more than a few falls. If he keeps falling off of it I'm afraid he'll hurt himself.
The cage substrate is about 1/2 to 1" of newspaper pellets and he has a large exo-terra water dish that I clean/change around once weekly and top off if it evaporates quickly.

No idea about the humidity but I got a hygrometer today and want to re-vamp the cage similar to the glass terrarium instructions pinned at the top. Need a piece of plexi-glas and some more accessories.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlthuringer

But I think I should argue that owning a pet is a relationship. If the owner isn't happy, then how can he care to keep the snake happy?

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But a relationship that SHOULD be built on the snake's needs, not what makes the owner happy.

The snake owner should research exactly what species of snake will fill their desires appropriately, not buy a snake and try to make it behave in a way that is against its nature, just to please that owner.

If providing hides to your ball python makes you unhappy, perhaps you should find a home that would be happy to provide it exactly what it needs. :rolleyes:

UV bulbs are a waste of money. The people at pet stores do not know what they are talking about most of the time. You really should have done your homework about caring for an animal before you bought it. You need to make sure that your temps, humidity, and cage are proper before even bringing a bp home.

Quote:

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But I think I should argue that owning a pet is a relationship. If the owner isn't happy, then how can he care to keep the snake happy?

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:rolleyes: Not sure you will ever be happy than because that's what they do, BP spend 80% of their time hiding, so you might want to ask yourself if a BP is the right snake for you.

Quote:

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A glass thermometer shows the temperature under the light at 95~ degrees. The middle of the tank is about 75-80 depending on ambient temperature and the far side is a bit cooler than that, around 71.

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You need to get a digital thermometer/hygrometer to allow you to get an accurate reading, you can use something like this http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...Acu-Rite_T.jpg

You also need to maintain proper temps and not allow those temps to fall below 75 degrees.

Note: The thermometer above is also a hygrometer and will give you an accurate reading of your humidity level.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlthuringer

Alright, folks. I did go to the store today and buy two smallish hides because I was anticipating a reaction somewhat like this.

But I think I should argue that owning a pet is a relationship. If the owner isn't happy, then how can he care to keep the snake happy? I noted that after I'd removed the hide he did feed twice with no real problems, though I still had it on hand if he refused to eat. Since there seemed to be no poor reaction, then I didn't replace it.

Other information:

The tank is a medium-sized tank, about 2.5' long with an open mesh top. I use a UV fluorescent fixture on the left 2/3 and have a ceramic fixture with an infrared bulb in it on the right. The pet store people said the UV was necessary. Too late to return it. I run it on a timer, 10 hours of light, 14 of night.
Below the bulb is a heating pad that reaches from front to back of teh cage, about 10" wide. A glass thermometer shows the temperature under the light at 95~ degrees. The middle of the tank is about 75-80 depending on ambient temperature and the far side is a bit cooler than that, around 71.
I have to take the thermometer out. It's a metal sort that hangs over the lip of the cage and my BP likes climbing on it during escape attempts, resulting in more than a few falls. If he keeps falling off of it I'm afraid he'll hurt himself.
The cage substrate is about 1/2 to 1" of newspaper pellets and he has a large exo-terra water dish that I clean/change around once weekly and top off if it evaporates quickly.

No idea about the humidity but I got a hygrometer today and want to re-vamp the cage similar to the glass terrarium instructions pinned at the top. Need a piece of plexi-glas and some more accessories.

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Ok. I don't even feel like correcting this.
Read this caresheet, and see if any of it is different in any way from your setup, and change it.
http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules/...articles&cid=1

If those newspaper pellets are at all dusty, I would get rid of them. I'm not sure how those are though, so they could be fine.
You need to change the water at least every other day. That's a really keen way for bacteria to build up and cause problems for your snake.

You bought a snake, because you wanted one right? I bought snakes because I wanted them too, but I also realized that they have proper living needs and it was my responsibility to keep them healthy and thriving. Your snake can make you happy by handling him occasionally (48 hours after eating of course) and seeing him at night.
Another thing, how often are you feeding him? You should not be feeding him less then every 5-7 days. If your feeding him more often than that, your causing a huge boat of problems that I don't think you want to go into. What are you feeding him? Make sure to feed him (one prey item preferred) about the same thickness as the thickest point on his body.

Keep us posted.

Quote:

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But I think I should argue that owning a pet is a relationship. If the owner isn't happy, then how can he care to keep the snake happy?

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When your ball python is happy and healthy, that should make you happy.

Honestly, I think I've been scolded enough after 18 replies.

I asked many friends and also a fellow reptile owner who is keeping three bearded dragons about the snake before I bought him. I went to the reptile store (not a huge megamart like petco) and asked the owner about the snakes and what he felt would be good. I bought two books, Reptiles and Amphibians for dummies, which was the only book at borders that looked even partially worthwhile with a section on pythons. I also bought the Ball Python Manual by Philippe de Vosjoli.
I found this site and while I found some of the posters to be rude or immature, I read some of the information, though I don't know how I missed the caresheets. I dislike vBulletin sites, but that's besides the point.

I waited half a month for a paycheck to come in to make sure that I could cover the expense and I read wikipedia and other information sources. Now maybe I"m just dense, but now, after owning this snake for over a month, I can finally recognize what i Really needed to know. The things that weren't obvious during my investigation and preparation.

I'm upset by what I feel is a broad assumption that I don't care or love my BP and that I should give him away. I'm trying my best and that's why I've spent time asking for help on these forums. I get anxious about every little detail and I still, after re-readign the BP manual 4 times (It's mostly about husbandry anyway. It rather sucks, IMO) I still have almost no confidence that I'm doing the right thing. Until yesterday I felt resigned to trial and error.

So make no mistake that I appreciate all the advice I've received, as well as how fast I was answered, even in the middle of the night.

But please, it is my first time owning a herp. I've made a lot of mistakes I admit, but even as hurt and ashamed as I feel reading this thread, it wouldn't add up to a fraction of how hurt I would be if my poor BP died. I love him.

At least I got the feeding schedule right. He eats every 7-8 days, though I'll stop trying to feed him the day after the first attempt. I usually try three times with 15-30 mins inbetween each attempt, then I dump the mouse for the day and wait for the next day. Last three successes he ate the second day, or the 8th day.

He doesn't defecate often, is this a sign of constipation or diet problems? I'm feeding him fuzzies right now. Next bag of ten mice will probably be five fuzzies and five hoppers.

We're not trying to come off as rude people. We just want to make sure that you are taking proper care of your snake. This is a great forum to learn things that you can't get from books.

Carl, my bluntness was not meant to be mean to you. You have 20-30 years with your guy - we just want to see you provide the best environment that HE needs - put his needs before yours, that's all! :)

Hi,

I actually quite liked the ball python manual - and I can also recomend the Ball pythons in captivity book by Kevin McCurley in the professional breeders series. There are two other really great books about BP's but they cost a little more.

There are a few ways to keep these animals and it can certainly be confusing trying to sort it out - especially if taking advice piecemeal from people who are actually following different methods.

What we try and do here is give one, fairly easy and economical, way that we know will work and keep your little guy happy till you get to know each other.

It may seem like everyone is picking on you at the moment but they really are just trying to look out for the snakes best intrests - we may not always express that in the most diplomatic way I will admit. :oops:

I'm glad you are looking at the stickys - they will certainly help you get started. They will also raise questions most likely so don't be afraid to ask them.

While the various articles on the site explain what to set the tank up like they do not always go into why so sometimes it seems like people are recomending strange ideas.

There is also the fact that BP's do differ in temperament and reactions to the same situations.

We also tend to give advice based on the most "scaredy-cat" BP's because they are the most common in new babies and while treating a brave snake like a scaredy one will not cause any harm the revserse cannot be said.

So we always recomend 2 hides, covered back and side of glass tanks and either small enclosures or lots of cover. I quite like newspaper as a substrate as it is easy to keep clean, dust free and you can see the droppings etc quite easily. I wouldn't however use the pellets you described as I think, aside from the dust issue, they would be a royal pain in the butt to clean and replace.

A solution to your cool end dropping to low might be another UTH - you can connect that to the thermostat via a dimmer so that one thermostat can keep both ends of the tank at the right temps no matter what the ambient temps in your room do. It will take a bit of fiddling with to get it right at first though but once it is set it will only need monitoring rather than a rheostat which needs constant manual adjustment - that gets old quick beleive me.

Thermostats often seem to be a huge expense to people setting up their first enclosure but if you consider the amount of time they last it is actually a great investment - they can move from tank to tank as your lil guy grows.

Have a search on the forums for recomendations and usage to see what I mean about being good value.

Stick with us and we'll help get the tank sorted - as you already noticed BP's are real little heart stealers. :D


dr del

ummm who are these 5 people that voted that they have NO HIDE? lol

:colbert:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlthuringer

At least I got the feeding schedule right. He eats every 7-8 days, though I'll stop trying to feed him the day after the first attempt. I usually try three times with 15-30 mins inbetween each attempt, then I dump the mouse for the day and wait for the next day. Last three successes he ate the second day, or the 8th day.

He doesn't defecate often, is this a sign of constipation or diet problems? I'm feeding him fuzzies right now. Next bag of ten mice will probably be five fuzzies and five hoppers.

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It depends. Some defecate every week after eating and someone only a few times a month. I wouldn't worry about it.

Quote:

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He doesn't defecate often, is this a sign of constipation or diet problems? I'm feeding him fuzzies right now.

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It really varies from one individual to another there is not set schedule however I would guess that because you are feeding fuzzies most of the prey item is being absorbed for his growth.

I would recommend to feed a prey slightly smaller than the girth size, keep in mind that most hatchling BP are started on hopper mice and quickly move to small to adult mice.

As far as refusal if your BP refuses just wait another week, offering too soon after a refusal will only cause stress and lead to more refusal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlthuringer

Honestly, I think I've been scolded enough after 18 replies.

I asked many friends and also a fellow reptile owner who is keeping three bearded dragons about the snake before I bought him. I went to the reptile store (not a huge megamart like petco) and asked the owner about the snakes and what he felt would be good. I bought two books, Reptiles and Amphibians for dummies, which was the only book at borders that looked even partially worthwhile with a section on pythons. I also bought the Ball Python Manual by Philippe de Vosjoli.
I found this site and while I found some of the posters to be rude or immature, I read some of the information, though I don't know how I missed the caresheets. I dislike vBulletin sites, but that's besides the point.

I waited half a month for a paycheck to come in to make sure that I could cover the expense and I read wikipedia and other information sources. Now maybe I"m just dense, but now, after owning this snake for over a month, I can finally recognize what i Really needed to know. The things that weren't obvious during my investigation and preparation.

I'm upset by what I feel is a broad assumption that I don't care or love my BP and that I should give him away. I'm trying my best and that's why I've spent time asking for help on these forums. I get anxious about every little detail and I still, after re-readign the BP manual 4 times (It's mostly about husbandry anyway. It rather sucks, IMO) I still have almost no confidence that I'm doing the right thing. Until yesterday I felt resigned to trial and error.

So make no mistake that I appreciate all the advice I've received, as well as how fast I was answered, even in the middle of the night.

But please, it is my first time owning a herp. I've made a lot of mistakes I admit, but even as hurt and ashamed as I feel reading this thread, it wouldn't add up to a fraction of how hurt I would be if my poor BP died. I love him.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlthuringer

At least I got the feeding schedule right. He eats every 7-8 days, though I'll stop trying to feed him the day after the first attempt. I usually try three times with 15-30 mins inbetween each attempt, then I dump the mouse for the day and wait for the next day. Last three successes he ate the second day, or the 8th day.

He doesn't defecate often, is this a sign of constipation or diet problems? I'm feeding him fuzzies right now. Next bag of ten mice will probably be five fuzzies and five hoppers.

---

We really are not trying to attack you. We just want to make sure you get everything setup right. If was sounding like it, I was probably in a bad mood and I apologize. I've been sick today. All herpers start out new and you did come off sounding a bit carefree about your animal, which we understand now is not true. We'll try to be more positive now.
Fuzzy mice sound a bit small, so try to feed two at a time if he's eating frozen. (Just put one at the end of the other one as it's going down, and he should keep eating it).
I'm really glad you came to us and asked questions. Now we can help make your setup perfect and know that your snake is thriving under your care! :D

Dr Del basically nailed it. Follow that and you should be set! :]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

ummm who are these 5 people that voted that they have NO HIDE? lol

:colbert:

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Probably people using large rack systems. Where the snake may never need a hide because it's already in a warm dark place.

Current setup:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3054/...86bc6f493d.jpg

Things you can't see:
The heat lamp is a no-light ceramic model now. I chose a 60W bulb and I'm glad I did. The heat on the left was about 80F but on the right it's getting up to 97F inside the hide (where the probe, and the snake both are at the moment)
I just turned the lamp off to let that side cool off a bit.

Humidity is 48%. I just misted it for the second time and the whole cage is fresh from a bleaching, drying, and wiping down. I cleaned everything before putting it back inside.

There's a reptile carpet on the bottom too. The substrate is newspaper pellets and I hate them. Dusty, hard to remove, impossible to find urates. Is it really fine to just spread out newspaper on the bottom of the terrarium?

EDIT:
I also want to cover the back and sides as advised, just didn't have a chance to go to K-mart or meijer today. Considering plexiglass for the top.

If you want to help with humidity I would recommend to try to switch to a substrate that holds humidity better such as cypress mulch, repti-bark or other type of barks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlthuringer

Current setup:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3054/...86bc6f493d.jpg

Things you can't see:
The heat lamp is a no-light ceramic model now. I chose a 60W bulb and I'm glad I did. The heat on the left was about 80F but on the right it's getting up to 97F inside the hide (where the probe, and the snake both are at the moment)

Humidity is 48%. I just misted it for the second time and the whole cage is fresh from a bleaching, drying, and wiping down. I cleaned everything before putting it back inside.

There's a reptile carpet on the bottom too. The substrate is newspaper pellets and I hate them. Dusty, hard to remove, impossible to find urates. Is it really fine to just spread out newspaper on the bottom of the terrarium?

EDIT:
I also want to cover the back and sides as advised, just didn't have a chance to go to K-mart or meijer today. Considering plexiglass for the top.

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Yes, it is fine, but if you like something that looks nicer, you can use Aspen bedding. Which is very common for snakes. Don't get pine or cedar though!
If those pellets are indeed dusty, get them out of there as soon as you can, because snakes get Respiratory Infections because they can't cough up dust and it gets stuck and infected.
A good way to keep humidity in the tank, is to cover the top with foil, and tape it down (making sure no tape comes in contact with the inside of the enclosure or where the snake could reach it) and leave holes for the lamp and such.
Another thing, is look into buying a dimmer, t-stat, or rheostat, to control the UTH so it doesn't get so high.
If you like something better to look at, you can feel free to add plastic plants too and decorate. :]
Make sure to turn off the lights at night.

Otherwise your taking proper steps in the right direction. Your doing a great job. :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Make sure to turn off the lights at night.

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Oh, it's on a 10-hours on, 14 hours off auto timer.

Hi,

Try and dial it down to keep the top temp inside the warm hide around 93-95 if you can as too high a temp can be dangerous and it's a good idea to keep a nice "buffer zone".

Also measure the temps on the glass directly above the UTH and make sure they are about the same - there is no way to predict when your snake will burrow down.

What are the temps on the cool side?

It might be a better idea to move the heat lamp into the middle so it heats the whole tank and keeps the cool end at 80-82f and let the UTH on the warm side keep it around 93f. It depends what the temp range on the tank is really.

Another thing to think about - I have a cool house (sadly only temperature wise :P ) so I actually put aquarium backing round the back and sides for appearance but then covered that with a layer of insulation to help keep the temps more stable. I chose to use cork sheeting as it looked nice and was easily available but there is also bubble wrap and foil stuff - I think it's called reflectix that may actually insulate better.

What are you using to control the heaters?

It's all about problem avoidance when setting up enclosures - if there are never any dangerous hot spots or tape in the enclosure he can never burn himself or get covered in glue. :gj:

And yes it is perfectly fine to simply spread out newspaper on the bottom of the tank (with the temp proviso above) - I generally use at least two layers of newspaper as they do pee a lot. :rolleyes:

And I agree on removing the reptile carpet too. :)


dr del

Look at it like this. There are people out there that only care about what they want. They come on here and post about all of their knowladge they got from the idiot at the pet store who said oh yah just get a 110 watt lamp and a heat rock here are your two sticky thermometers and we have frozen rodents here ( this is the part where they tell you about buying from the other guys frozen rodents and a snake died from the parasite his snake got from it).

Then ignore all advice they get from here and get all indignant. then three months later they are like what is wrong with ym snake... I cant figure it our he doesnt eat he doesnt move he just lays out all day and smells funny he is kinda limp. Are they supposed to do that? ahh your wrong he is playing and my BP must have musked me....

There are alot of idiots out there...

and I am sorry to say this looked like one of those threads.

I do think you care about your snake. stick with these great people around here and they will teach you something. Everything I know is from different members on here.

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Originally Posted by lenastorms

No brainer....BP's need at least 1 hide, but 2 is better - 1 for the warm side and 1 for the cool side.
PLEASE put the hide back in :please:
BP's really need that feeling of security.

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I'll second that :D

if there in a rack they prolly be ok without one but in glass i would use one
at night i cover mine with towels and my big girl will come out and hide behind the towel as long as theres not alotta foot traffic they prolly wont stress to much, i would use a hide even in a rack though but i take em out when im going for a lock up
i make my hides outa baskets though, they look cool snakes seem to like em
and there uber cheap at any walgreens or value village (they still have VV,s?)
50 cents a peice for my last 4 lol and if they get tatterd or overly pooped in
toss em and buy new ones!
i even run em thru the dishawsher a few times and they hold up really well

I will admit I was pretty sarcastic and mean but you know what? The new setup doesn't look half bad. I would definitely move to a larger mouse though. I got all excited when I got my ball python and having not setup a mouse supply ran down to petco and rummaged through their freezer picked out the small mice and then got home and found I had grabbed the fuzzies in my haste. I thought what the hell I will feed a fuzzy and see how it goes. Went fine of course but after the second fuzzy I thought man these seam small. I moved to medium adults sorted them by weight and started feeding with the smallest. My Ball Python has now eaten 2 medium sized mice and I am shocked at how good her feeding response is. Keep in mind I have nothing to compare it to but the horror stories I have read on this and other forums but so many people can't all be lying. I count myself lucky.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Fuzzy mice sound a bit small, so try to feed two at a time if he's eating frozen. (Just put one at the end of the other one as it's going down, and he should keep eating it).

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I don't think that's a good idea. I think the snake should decide whether it wants more or not.

How about the people with snakes in small rack enclosures, are you putting in hides that take up half of the Tupperware?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by P2R

How about the people with snakes in small rack enclosures, are you putting in hides that take up half of the Tupperware?

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I do not use hides in any of my racks; although, I do use unprinted newspaper, which most of the ball pythons hide under.

Hope this helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by P2R

How about the people with snakes in small rack enclosures, are you putting in hides that take up half of the Tupperware?

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I use one hide in 6 quarts tubs :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JayBP

I don't think that's a good idea. I think the snake should decide whether it wants more or not.

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I didn't necessarily mean directly afterwards, but I don't think it would be a good idea to have him constrict a second one after the first, which is what I was getting at.

I personally think it's better to feed a larger animal in one sitting than two at a time. Thats just me though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I didn't necessarily mean directly afterwards, but I don't think it would be a good idea to have him constrict a second one after the first, which is what I was getting at.

I personally think it's better to feed a larger animal in one sitting than two at a time. Thats just me though.

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Oh okay. I mis-understood then. I agree with you on the second part.

I have always thought that a hide was not a necessity in a rack setup, but more so in a vivarium type setup. Please give more opinions.

Thanks,

Pat

Hi,

Multiple feedings depend on the snake like everything else. :)

My tiny little 2006 female would point blank refuse to take a second prey item - but then again she wouldn't eat a decent sized meal either. :rolleyes:

I'm happy to say she now does both.

My adult male went off rats and decided he is a mouser - but, since he will happily eat three at one sitting, that doesn't bother me as he is still getting the correct amount of food overall.

Multiples are also a good way to bridge the gap between prey sizes if your snake accepts them.

As to the hides in a rack system it again depends on the snake and the rack system.

I am using quite large rack boxes and all my snakes will use hide boxes if I provide them to a greater or lesser extent.

My largest female (who is a bit of a scaredy-cat) didn't want to eat last week because I removed her hides. Needless to say they are going back in.

Perhaps if I was using smaller boxes it wouldn't matter?


dr del

Some of the members here can come across a bit harsh but those are usually the ones that have the best information! Look past the harshness and listen to what they have to say. If it wasn't for the members here I don't think my girl would have made it this far based on what the petstores told me.

If you are still having temp issues, you could consider getting a red bulb that you can leave on 24/7 provided it's on a dimmer switch at least (thermostat would be ideal). Before switching to a red bulb our temp would drop too low at night but with the red bulb, problem solved. We bought two dimmer switches from Lowes, one for the UTH and one for the bulb.

Because your tank is so bare, I would put something (newspaper, fabric,whatever) around the three sides until you can get something else just to add to the secure feeling.

Hang in there and ask all the questions you have...the folks around here are more than willing to help out...for the snake's sake if nothing else.