So are they really as mean as they appear

Personally HOTs aren't for me...but I was just curious to hear from those of you that do keep them...are they as mean as they appear? Most of the images you see they appear ready to strike.

I have no issue sticking my hand in any of my python cages and pulling out a snake (with minimal worry they will strike just to strike)...despite the potential consequence with HOTs just thinking of them as a normal snake do they tame down to that level or are they always jumpy and ready to strike?

Just curious.

i dont know much about them but i would have to think it all depends on the type of hot. for instance i have a buddy that has a forest cobra that is very docile and i have had no problem holding but i have never known anyone to own a rattler or viper and actually handle them. I think cobras are the way to go if your thinkin bout gettin a venomous snake.

Depends on the species, however all snakes bite, HOTs just send you to ER when they do.

I will get into this more later, gotta go to work......:D

I think that's an interesting question....and one that I would HOPE there is no real answer to. The reason I say that is because if people who keep hots are keeping them properly, then there is no way for them to find out how "docile" they are compared to boids or colubrids. No matter how docile a hot snake is, it shouldn't be free handled and played with as if it were a small python. The risks are simply too high.

That being said...I'm sure there is a lot of variety of temperments between the different species, just as there are among different species of boids and colubrids. And within each species, there are always individuals that are more laid back and cool with keeper interaction....or more high strung and nervous.

With hots, all of them should be treated as if they are high strung and ready to bite without warning or hesitation. That's my take on hots, anyhow. Personally, I wouldn't ever want to keep one, no matter how beautiful and/or how "tame" it might be.

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Originally Posted by andwhy6

i dont know much about them but i would have to think it all depends on the type of hot. for instance i have a buddy that has a forest cobra that is very docile and i have had no problem holding but i have never known anyone to own a rattler or viper and actually handle them. I think cobras are the way to go if your thinkin bout gettin a venomous snake.

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I remember a news story in the past year or so about a guy who handled his rattlers bare handed all the time. Said they were as tame as any other snake out there. Then he got drunk one night and put the snake's head in his mouth and it bit his tongue. Obviously he had it coming, but it just goes to show you that they really are like any other snake. They may be docile, but they're still going to bite at some point. It's just a much heavier price to pay when they do bite, so why take the risk?

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Originally Posted by JLC

I think that's an interesting question....and one that I would HOPE there is no real answer to. The reason I say that is because if people who keep hots are keeping them properly, then there is no way for them to find out how "docile" they are compared to boids or colubrids. No matter how docile a hot snake is, it shouldn't be free handled and played with as if it were a small python. The risks are simply too high.

That being said...I'm sure there is a lot of variety of temperments between the different species, just as there are among different species of boids and colubrids. And within each species, there are always individuals that are more laid back and cool with keeper interaction....or more high strung and nervous.

With hots, all of them should be treated as if they are high strung and ready to bite without warning or hesitation. That's my take on hots, anyhow. Personally, I wouldn't ever want to keep one, no matter how beautiful and/or how "tame" it might be.

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Awww Judy...the voice of reason...lol

I agree with your comment...but you are missing the point of the question. As a species are venomous snakes more aggressive due to the fact that they are venomous? Due to the head structure they "look" mean just wondering how true that is.

We advocate Ball's as being good first python snakes...why because they are fairly laid back and tolerate handling well (other pythons calm down quick enough too)...where do HOT's fall like this?

I know there are always exceptions to every rule with snakes (not all Ball's are created equal)...but in general what do HOT keepers see?

It is just a curiosity question

I don't have any hot experience at all but I will say that I have seen a very "tame" venomoid Rhinocerous viper being handled by hand. Whether venomoids or free handling is right or wrong, I am not going to get into at all. But the snake was seemingly docile.

There are never any mean animals, just those that get stressed out more easily than others. In general differnt species tend to get stressed in different ways (playing dead, striking, curling up in a ball, etc.)
As for Hots, i'm not so sure, i only handled a few pine rattlers and never by hand, only by mouth (kidding!). They seemed fine, like you could handle them by hand but i think they would've gotten stressed by the hand.
Keep in mind, every animal is docile by nature and you must understand their limits and things that annoy them when handling any animal (dog, cat, horse, snake, fish, etc).

Ok, most have covered this very well.

I will ad a few things here.

First off, tame is not a word around most herpers. There is no such thing as tame with reptiles, or really any animal. There are just different degrees of tolerance. Some are more tolerant then others, just like people.....LOL

As far as the mean look, that is mainly only in vipers. Some of the most venomous snakes on earth are also the ones that look harmless. Some look like normal ratsnakes, like a corn without fancy colors or patterns.

Yes in the venomous community there are some snakes that are concidered "beginner". They include Copperheads, due to the lower toxicity and available antivenin, among the most tolerant of dealings is the Gaboon Viper.....believe it or not they are very unlikely to strike at a person with normal dealings, however it would only take once to make things ugly in a hurry, and the Timber Rattlesnake.....timbers have good attitudes as far as rattlers go.

There again, NO venomous snake is "handleable".....period, just no way to treat the snake and a very large lack of responsibility.

I in NO WAY shape or form condone HOT keeping.

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Originally Posted by Nightmare Creatures

I in NO WAY shape or form condone HOT keeping.

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Thank you! I forgot to say that before.

whatever species of rattlers used by the various offshoots of baptist churches that practice snake handling seem to be pretty darn relaxed about being handled. Yeah, they bite sometimes.

From my experiences with wild venomous snakes, I'd be more than willing to bet that there are venomous species that are calmer and less agressive and there are species that are more agressive, and it can't be judged by looks.

I've never met a nice water moccasin/cottonmouth. Any that I have come anywhere near to have shown aggression.

I have met many "nice" copperheads, or at least, they certainly didn't mind being picked up by a nice long stick and moved off the foot path.

I'm fairly convinced that cobras are relatively calm hots, but have no personal experience other than seeing them around other people and in zoos. The biggie, probably a 10+ footer king, that they had at the houston zoo back when I was 7 was pretty unconcerned when his daily cage cleaner walked around the cage with a spray bottle and wiped down the glass walls. And whenever cobras do get defensive, they have just about the slowest strike speed of any snake I've ever seen strike on TV or elsewhere.

I would go ahead and agree with most people on that hots are like all other snakes and animals. They have a breaking point but as was stated in a previous post (Can't remember who said it) sorry! Getting bit by a hot will send you to the ER in most cases. I moved a little rattler off a path at a zoo in Tennessee by hand but seeming as he was in a cool shaded area I thought he would probably be less likely to strike as opposed to having a nice high body temp.

My sister however I don't know where this place is in Arizona (sorry again) but has handled a few cobras there and said they were as docile as her ball... just wouldn't wanna take a hit from one.

In conclusion haha I agree, I absolutely do NOT under any circumstance advocate or recommend keeping hots. However I would kill to see a fer de lance up close :)

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

whatever species of rattlers used by the various offshoots of baptist churches that practice snake handling seem to be pretty darn relaxed about being handled. Yeah, they bite sometimes.

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The snakes they use are usually timber rattlesnakes and copperheads. sometimes they bring cottonmouths and other times they bring in the big boys (mambas, cobras, gaboons, etc).

I have a western d back and he is the meanest snake I have ever had.

he will strike at your shadow.

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Originally Posted by V1L3 DiaL3cT

My sister however I don't know where this place is in Arizona (sorry again) but has handled a few cobras there and said they were as docile as her ball... just wouldn't wanna take a hit from one.

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Please elaborate... I am very curious. Also please check you PM and respond ASAP.

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Originally Posted by andwhy6

i don't know much about them but i would have to think it all depends on the type of hot. for instance i have a buddy that has a forest cobra that is very docile and i have had no problem holding but i have never known anyone to own a rattler or viper and actually handle them. I think cobras are the way to go if your thinking bout getting a venomous snake.

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you had no problem holding the forest cobra ? i would take a guess that it was a venomoid cobra. right ? cobras are the way to go if you want a venomous snake wouldn't be the best advise if you ask me. cobras are fast and can be very aggressive and forest cobras are known to be aggressive which makes me think your friends is a venomoid that he handles like a non venomous snake. i see you are in Washington i believe you need permits to keep venomous snakes.

someone said that their sister got to handle cobras in at a place in az ? what places would that be, a zoo or something like that, i don't see a person just letting people come in and handle venomous snakes for no reason if they don't work at the place. that would be a lawsuit waiting to happen..

like it was said snakes are different and some are more laid back, gaboons are one but if you are in range and they want to bite you they wont miss. they are not snakes to be held or played with. a bite could kill you even from copperheads which are not normally fatal but the bite results in a lot of amputations.


there are hots that are better to start out with then others, copperheads, pygmy rattlers. its best to stay away from arboreal hots, gaboons, puff adders, mambas, cobras are not ones to start with.

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Originally Posted by Nightmare Creatures

Ok, most have covered this very well.

I will ad a few things here.

First off, tame is not a word around most herpers. There is no such thing as tame with reptiles, or really any animal. There are just different degrees of tolerance. Some are more tolerant then others, just like people.....LOL

As far as the mean look, that is mainly only in vipers. Some of the most venomous snakes on earth are also the ones that look harmless. Some look like normal ratsnakes, like a corn without fancy colors or patterns.

Yes in the venomous community there are some snakes that are concidered "beginner". They include Copperheads, due to the lower toxicity and available antivenin, among the most tolerant of dealings is the Gaboon Viper.....believe it or not they are very unlikely to strike at a person with normal dealings, however it would only take once to make things ugly in a hurry, and the Timber Rattlesnake.....timbers have good attitudes as far as rattlers go.

There again, NO venomous snake is "handleable".....period, just no way to treat the snake and a very large lack of responsibility.

I in NO WAY shape or form condone HOT keeping.

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dont you keep hots?

Venomous snakes are as unpredictable as any other snake. The consequences of that unpredictability separate them from non-venomous snakes. Any one of our snakes could--for any reason suitable to them--strike. The bite of a kingsnake or ball python, however, presents quite a different set of results from the bite of any viper or elapid.

I've seen some talk about cobras being docile and just want to say that cobras in particular are very intelligent snakes. Many captive cobras reach the rough equivalent of a "cease-fire" with their keepers, but this is no guarantee of consistency. Anything can cause a defense reaction in a wild animal and these are ALL wild animals. Gaboon vipers are no picnic either. They appear very slow and amiable at times. Mess with them on a bad day though and you're in serious trouble. The only "mean" venomous snake I've ever encountered was a very pissed off cottonmouth who had just been roused from a peaceful slumber by a very foolish gentleman. I've only observed mambas being handled and don't intend to take part in that any time soon, but these supposedly "mean" snakes are--from my observation and conversations with keepers--extremely nervous snakes. With proper handling they can be kept with relative safety for both parties.

Bottom line, these are not vicious animals that can never be kept. These are animals which should be approached and handled only with the greatest care and respect. Sheesh, do I sound preachy or what? Sorry.

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Originally Posted by TKR Reptiles

dont you keep hots?

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Hi Trent!

Yes I am a retired HOT keeper. Most of us do not condone keeping of HOTs.....just because I do doesnt mean you should type of thing.

how would you tell someone else they shouldnt keep a venomous snake if you do ? what makes it ok for you to do it and not someone else ? most people could learn how to handle hots. i have never told anyone they could never own one, if i could do it then they could to. there are some people that shouldnt have them for reasons like experience or beause they think it would be cool but other then that. i dont understand how you would tell someone they should not own one but you should ? what makes you better then them ?

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Originally Posted by jparker1167

you had no problem holding the forest cobra ? i would take a guess that it was a venomoid cobra. right ? cobras are the way to go if you want a venomous snake wouldn't be the best advise if you ask me. cobras are fast and can be very aggressive and forest cobras are known to be aggressive which makes me think your friends is a venomoid that he handles like a non venomous snake. i see you are in Washington i believe you need permits to keep venomous snakes.

someone said that their sister got to handle cobras in at a place in az ? what places would that be, a zoo or something like that, i don't see a person just letting people come in and handle venomous snakes for no reason if they don't work at the place. that would be a lawsuit waiting to happen..

like it was said snakes are different and some are more laid back, gaboons are one but if you are in range and they want to bite you they wont miss. they are not snakes to be held or played with. a bite could kill you even from copperheads which are not normally fatal but the bite results in a lot of amputations.


there are hots that are better to start out with then others, copperheads, pygmy rattlers. its best to stay away from arboreal hots, gaboons, puff adders, mambas, cobras are not ones to start with.

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I saw a video of venemoids. YouTube - Venomoid cobras give venom The person tested them, and many had through tissue regrowth started producing venom again.

one thing i haven't seen mentioned is that hots may be more aggressive in captivity because of the way they have to be handled. a lot of young pythons will bite all day long but after they're handled gently and persistently they calm down... with a venomous animal this is simply not possible. they will be grabbed with tongs, pinned down by the head, hooked, etc etc.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying there's anything wrong with the way hots are 'handled', but just that the lack of direct contact might prolong their ornery-ness.

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Originally Posted by Nightmare Creatures

Hi Trent!

Yes I am a retired HOT keeper. Most of us do not condone keeping of HOTs.....just because I do doesnt mean you should type of thing.

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is this the Richard from Stroud? the one with all those awesome ponds on his land? :D

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Originally Posted by jparker1167

how would you tell someone else they shouldnt keep a venomous snake if you do ? what makes it ok for you to do it and not someone else ? most people could learn how to handle hots. i have never told anyone they could never own one, if i could do it then they could to. there are some people that shouldnt have them for reasons like experience or beause they think it would be cool but other then that. i dont understand how you would tell someone they should not own one but you should ? what makes you better then them ?

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He didn't say you couldn't. He just said he did not condone it. Big difference, RELAX. :cool:

yea i know what he said, he said he doesnt condone the keeping of hots, but he keeps them. which is pretty much like saying he doesnt think people should keep them... im relaxed its not like is said anything mean now did i ? i just asked him why he though others should not keep something he keeps.


ohyeanow i saw that video about the venomoids, there where like 3 or 4 snakes they milked that where supposed to be venomoids all but one was able to inject venom, but no one knows who did the surgery. i have read a lot on venomoids and if the surgery is done right they will never produce venom again, if the dr. makes a mistake and misses part of the gland it can reconnect and be able to inject venom. there is a good post about it on the trr and fauna fourms. the surgery on those snakes where probably done by someone that just wanted to make money on selling venomoids so they did it at home.

i keep around 30 hots not one venomoid in the bunch but i dont hate them or have anything against them, i think they are fine if someone is going to use it for educational shows, some other reasons too. but its the people that want to get these snakes beause they think they are sweet and want to show off to friends that they have a cobra, its people that think that way that get stuff banned. if you want a venomous snake what is the point of getting a venomoid ? a venomoid cobra is just a corn snake with a hood and fangs lol

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Originally Posted by jparker1167

yea i know what he said, he said he doesnt condone the keeping of hots, but he keeps them. which is pretty much like saying he doesnt think people should keep them... im relaxed its not like is said anything mean now did i ? i just asked him why he though others should not keep something he keeps.


ohyeanow i saw that video about the venomoids, there where like 3 or 4 snakes they milked that where supposed to be venomoids all but one was able to inject venom, but no one knows who did the surgery. i have read a lot on venomoids and if the surgery is done right they will never produce venom again, if the dr. makes a mistake and misses part of the gland it can reconnect and be able to inject venom. there is a good post about it on the trr and fauna fourms. the surgery on those snakes where probably done by someone that just wanted to make money on selling venomoids so they did it at home.

i keep around 30 hots not one venomoid in the bunch but i dont hate them or have anything against them, i think they are fine if someone is going to use it for educational shows, some other reasons too. but its the people that want to get these snakes beause they think they are sweet and want to show off to friends that they have a cobra, its people that think that way that get stuff banned. if you want a venomous snake what is the point of getting a venomoid ? a venomoid cobra is just a corn snake with a hood and fangs lol

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Well, just seemed like you took it kind of personal? Maybe I just read to much into your response. I took it like he was saying "hey just because I do something that could cause me great harm, does not mean that you should do it." I at no time felt like he thought he was better then me. And also did not feel that he was saying or preventing me from keeping hots if I felt so inclined to do so. Kind of like I might tell my kids, "Hey when I was your age I experimented with drugs, but I do not condone it. Or advise it." :gj:

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Originally Posted by jparker1167

yea i know what he said, he said he doesnt condone the keeping of hots, but he keeps them. which is pretty much like saying he doesnt think people should keep them... im relaxed its not like is said anything mean now did i ? i just asked him why he though others should not keep something he keeps.


ohyeanow i saw that video about the venomoids, there where like 3 or 4 snakes they milked that where supposed to be venomoids all but one was able to inject venom, but no one knows who did the surgery. i have read a lot on venomoids and if the surgery is done right they will never produce venom again, if the dr. makes a mistake and misses part of the gland it can reconnect and be able to inject venom. there is a good post about it on the trr and fauna fourms. the surgery on those snakes where probably done by someone that just wanted to make money on selling venomoids so they did it at home.

i keep around 30 hots not one venomoid in the bunch but i dont hate them or have anything against them, i think they are fine if someone is going to use it for educational shows, some other reasons too. but its the people that want to get these snakes beause they think they are sweet and want to show off to friends that they have a cobra, its people that think that way that get stuff banned. if you want a venomous snake what is the point of getting a venomoid ? a venomoid cobra is just a corn snake with a hood and fangs lol

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LOL. I never liked people who declawed cats either. Venomous is not for me, but I support all those who are educated and responsible keepers of venomous snakes. Accidents can happen though. I remember when the local biology professor (a family friend) would feed her rattlers and copperhead. Always liked being their to watch her feed her collection. She was educated and careful, but got bitten once by her copperhead. After going to the hospital she said if she were ever bitten by a copperhead again, she would just go home, because their treatment was crap. She still kept her whole collection, just became a little more cautious. Bite occurred during cage cleaning.

What hots do you have? Do you have images posted?

these are the hots i keep right now.

southern and osage copperheads, panamint rattlers, nothern pacific rattlers, mojave rattlers, cantils, malayan pit vipers, levantine vipers, saw scaled viper, gaboons, puff adders, monocle cobras, moroccan cobra, formosa cobra.

i think i have posted a few pics somewhere on here but ill post some here if you cant find them anywhere else let me know.

no i didn't take it personal, just seemed to me he was saying others shouldn't keep them, maybe he didnt mean it that way but that's what it looked like to me also there is no way he could prevent someone from keeping them if they where legally allowed to.

there are some people that shouldn't keep venomous but i would say that most people would be able to learn how to do it safely. its not beyond most peoples capabilities. just some people don't want to take the chance mistakes happen and people do get bit, lose fingers or die, its costs a lot when you get bit and not everyone is willing to take the chance

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Originally Posted by TKR Reptiles

is this the Richard from Stroud? the one with all those awesome ponds on his land? :D

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Ummm......No......This is Richard you drank a beer with Sunday night.....

LOL :8:

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Originally Posted by Nightmare Creatures

Ummm......No......This is Richard you drank a beer with Sunday night.....

LOL :8:

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OH!!! ok i got ya!!! the one with the kiddos that were downstairs when i was playing with the Gen Stripe retics? sry i am horrible with names.

i thought you were the Richard i know that had a ass ton of hots. lol.