logo debate question

I've worked on my website, and have been trying to design my logo. My sister, who went to school for graphic design, told me that you can't use a photo for a logo or as part of a logo.

My question is, how true is this? is there a set rule for making a logo that states that you can't use a photo as part of your logo or is this not so. please help me with this. thanx for your help. Any opinions and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I think using a pic for a true "logo" is not really accepted. A logo is more of a graphic rendering that you then trademark as yours. Like Adams 8ball and RDRs coiled snake with the crown.

I would think that the reason is cost ... reproducing photo quality logos for marketing materials (business cards, brochures, shirts, etc) is many many times more expensive than a graphic with 1-4 colors.

In the end, it's your logo ... you can do ANYTHING you want which is the cool part of owning your own business ... but trust be, the anything you want part doesn't always line up with the what's financially practical for a small business as I have learned many many time. :rofl: :P

Hope this helps.

-adam

thanx guys. food for thought and things to consider. I'll keep working on it. anybody else with ideas, bring em on. I can use all the help and ideas as I can. :D

Take a look around you in your home at everything with some sort of logo... Every brand you see is a flat cartoonish image, yes?

Just a few things that surround me that have no images:
Bank of America logo: blue and red
Pepperidge Farm Goldfish - illustrated barn
Goldfish logo - Black and brown
Samuel Adams OctoberFest :rolleye2: - lots of colors but no photographed images - everything is illustrated
Adobe logo

just naming off a few things I see in my general area...

Adam is right...anything you want your logo to be, it can be.

But your sister is also correct in that you don't really want to put a photo in a logo. A lot of people will trace an image in vector and make it a flat 1 or 2 colored image

Another reason has to do with scaling. Pictures are a raster based graphic, and if you scale them too far up or down it really degrades the quality. A vector based graphic is what most designers recomend. These can be scaled up and down almost infinitely with no degradation to quality. Of course, this doesn't really matter until you get into the printing aspects of it like Adam was talking about. Most print shops prefer to work with vector based graphics because of this.

What I would suggest is do somethin almost like I did.

Your main logo on your homepage has an image in it.....becuase it looks cool.

But you have a second Logo that you use for shirty, small banners etc with no image.

I started with a main logo abd have added to it twice for different situations...


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ll-logo1-1.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ogo-second.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...logo-first.jpg

Adam nailed it... It would cost way to much to print a full color logo on everything verses a 3 or 4 color logo...

Just keep in mind when designing a logo to design it in 300 DPI so it can be printed on anything. And to make sure your source material, whether its clipart or stock images, is also 300 dpi....

kewl.. thanx guys. valid points to keep in mind. if you click on the link in my sig, it will take you to my web site and at the bottom of the main page you can see two logos I was playing around with... but not satisifed with either. I will try to play around again with some more ideas and see if something finally makes me happy. I know that I should follow the main rule of K.I.S.S. but sometimes my creativity gets the better of me. thanx again guys, I just love this forum.

I used to work in a sign shop, and a logo should definately be fairly simple. It should be striking but easily recognizable, and work well in a variety of applications (letterhead, website, t shirt, sign, truck lettering, etc.) Just for fun, I drew this up real quick, it would work with a colorful gradient fill, or just as a single solid color:

(sorry it's tilted, didn't line it up in the scanner!)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91...unsetserps.jpg

wow, I like that alot.. I am in such a creative rut lately. :(

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

I am in such a creative rut lately. :(

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Me too, I've been working in an auto body shop doing airbrush and I'm supposed to be doing samples to take to a bike show in two weeks, but blah... lol, sometimes ya just don't feel like it and it's fun to do logos instead! Feel free to use/tweak/whatever you want to that if you'd like to.

thank you Lindsay. Once I'm finished with it.. credit will be given to you on my web site. this creative rut that I've been in is really frustrating the heck out of me and I've literally banged my head against the wall a few times. I can't even do any of my beaded work or jewelry cause I'm so blah about ideas. then again, dealing with two little ones and the rest of the family among other things doesn't help lol. I'll see what I can do with this. thanx again very much. :hug:

No problem! Like I said, I know the creativity rut all too well myself - I'm glad to help! :D

Okay, next question.. what is a standard logo size? what are the dimensions in inches and/or pixel size of your saved logo file in whatever software you used to create it? And how does it convert to your web page for a seamless look and not choppy and pixelated?

The software that I have been using is Jasc Paint Shop Pro Studio. Don't have photoshop at the moment, but eventually plan on getting it. thanx again everyone. :D

First, it's important to understand the difference between Raster and Vector.

Raster graphics are made up of Pixels...like a photograph. You can only resize it so much before losing quality.

Vector based graphics use computer mathematics to draw a line between point A and B. So if you have a line at one inch or 100 feet, it will always look the same. Size is irrelevant in Vector based graphics.

I use Adobe Illustrator - but you can download this free app and see if it's worth it :)

Just wanted to say I can't wait to see how it turns out!

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Originally Posted by Nate

First, it's important to understand the difference between Raster and Vector.

Raster graphics are made up of Pixels...like a photograph. You can only resize it so much before losing quality.

Vector based graphics use computer mathematics to draw a line between point A and B. So if you have a line at one inch or 100 feet, it will always look the same. Size is irrelevant in Vector based graphics.

I use Adobe Illustrator - but you can download this free app and see if it's worth it :)

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thanx for that very simple explanation between vector and raster graphics. I was reading up on the differences but this helped me greatly. :P :D

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Originally Posted by invadertoast

Just wanted to say I can't wait to see how it turns out!

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Well, here ya go Lindsay. Its been tweaked and modified. Hubby, who is my silent partner, (since its his money that has been used to get my snakes) wasn't happy with any design on its own, but by me combining the aspects of the various designs that he did like, I came up with this and he's happy with it. I gotta make him happy too or there goes my funding (not really but you get what I mean ;) ). Opinions and suggestions are always welcome, so, bring em on!! :D

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7...unsetlogo2.png

Looks good, very eye catching

I like it! Very warm and welcoming ;)

thanx.

it also translates nicely into black and white for easy printing. :D thanx again everyone for your help.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7...ogreyscale.png

I would find a graphic designer that could draw it in Illustrator for you. If you ever use it for anything besides the web the vector artwork is going to look much better.

What program did you do it in?

Jasc Paint shop pro studio.

I am not familiar with that program but I think it is similar to photoshop. That means that your logo is a Raster file.

Raster files are limited by their resolution. The larger you print the logo the more pixelated it will become. For the best quality, Raster images should be printed at 300 dpi at the actual size it is being printed. That is impossible to achieve if the original was created at a smaller size.

Vector graphics like you would create in Adobe Illustrator are not limited by resolution. They use a series of curves and paths to make up the image. They can be enlarge to any size without distortion and can also be used for color separations. Also, sign shops can cut vinyl or other materials from a vector file because the outlines of the shapes are in the vector file.

I hope this makes sense. This is what I do for a living and I can sometimes get nerdy.

lol.. its okay. its better to get input from people who know this stuff then for me to put something shabby together and stick it on my web site. yes paint shop pro is set up similiar to photoshop, but in the preferences I selected for the file to be a vector file. certain aspects of it are raster, but havent figured out how to change that yet. In general, is text able to saved as a vector file or does it have to be a Raster file? cause in paint shop pro it changes text to raster when saved

Looks awesome!!! :D

Thanx Lindsay. I'm sure I'll be tweaking it a bit more. Hubby seems to like it and I think I'm pretty happy with it as well. I'm going to try printing out a few business cards to see how it looks and take it from there.

i would suggest using photoshop and cinema4d to create and design your own logo. 3dmax is also a good one and they have built in tools to make very nice logo designs.

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

Jasc Paint shop pro studio.

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psp is decent and fairly user friendly compared to photoshop and others but psp is very limited in making or creating designs

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Originally Posted by xanaxez

i would suggest using photoshop and cinema4d to create and design your own logo. 3dmax is also a good one and they have built in tools to make very nice logo designs.

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errrr those are 3D applications - expensive applications - designed for 3D purposes, not logos. Can they output to vector? yes, C4D can (3ds Max will not output vector without a plugin)...in which you use Illustrator or another vector program to view it

3D is overkill if you ask me. For an experienced professional who has dedicated many days of getting comfortable in an app like C4D or 3ds Max - then yes, I would suggest that as a viable solution depending on the effect they're after.

:2cent:

well I could always make parts of my logo "3D" for my web page to make it pop some more... but for other purposes as was stated by everyone else, a flat rendering is best. :D
But thanx for the tips.

Okay, here is the logo tweaked with some 3D effects. Let me know. Thanx.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7...unsetlogo3.png

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7...greyscale3.png

I still like it! With everyone talking about Vector vs Raster... I don't know if you are, but are there any applications where you would need to enlarge to where it's distorted?

I don't know about you, but we don't really have any need for that, so I wouldn't rush out and buy illustrator yet, or pay for someone to do it. It's nice to have, but man, I have such a hard time with the pen tool! :P

Connie, at the moment I'm not planning on making T-shirts or anything large for printing where enlarging the image will distort it. At this point I'm just trying to get a logo so I can put it on my site. :D My site is basically up, but I want to keep tweaking at it until it is all set for when I can start breeding my snakes. Eventually I do want to get some of the above mentioned software, but for now.. the simple and cheap will have to do.